New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[Shaziro]

The reason I thought of, by the by, is going to stay quiet for now for your own sake. I can say it if you particularly want, but I'm going to leave it mum unless you ask because it might harm town to say.

[copper223]

Why is it disingenuous that I say this is what I do and you refusing to go ahead and look for it if you think it's that big of a deal? The burden of proof is also on you to provide examples of me saying things just to get people lynched. You've got a lot of stuff to do lol.

This is again so effin scummy. You can't lynch me if you don't find proof lalala, I am

definitely

not going to help you cause I don't have a vested interest in you avoiding wasting time on me instead of looking for real scum, right?

But then:

I've already checked the most recent games, it's not there. Check more earlier games. I would cite one game but it's not finished.

So you went ahead and looked but didn't find an example you could cite, I will look at all your recent meta, particularly if you've changed it since the accusation was first leveled.

I said in the PT that you might still be town cause this shit is almost too scummy to be scum, but holy cow are you playing against your alignment if that's the case.

@Lowell
Explain your Shaziro read please.

[copper223]

Anen_scum being on the 3rd beauty wagon before going V/LA makes a lot of sense, if Anen is scum then Magma likely is as well (see Anen's defence / not defence when I asked him what he thought about my push on him).

I do not buy the case for Zakk_scum.

[Nosferatu]

Soccer Spirits Mafia. I (correctly mind you) named two scum buddies and voted neither. There ya go. Rather recent actually.

[Nosferatu]

I've already checked the most recent games, it's not there. Check more earlier games. I would cite one game but it's not finished.

I will look at all your recent meta, particularly if you've changed it since the accusation was first leveled.

I don't understand this at a quintessential level.

[Shaziro]

Ok so I looked at soccer spirits. You seemed to vote rather freely, honestly. It was also for some reason difficult to -find- Soccer Spirits, as one that I found as actually not the Soccer Spirits thread but I guess one for a sequel to it or a pre-sign up or...something? It was weird, and only 3 pages. But yeah, no. I don't see a case there where you said "Oh this is definitely scum" and then didn't vote. I also can't see any town motivation whatsoever in not voting somebody you think is scum.

[copper223]

I don't understand this at a quintessential level.

I will explain it at the essential level -5, if the meta is so recent that it happened after the point became relevant in this game that would actually be scummy.

[Shaziro]

So what you're saying is, if Nos changed their meta in other games to fit what they were claiming in this game, it would suggest they wanted you to see that and assume it was normal, which would be scummy?

[Aneninen]

Firstly, before catching-up.

I know it's my fault that I hadn't mentioned it before it happened, but we shouldn't ever have lynched Persivul. It should have been a red flag that there had been NO real counter at all. In short, we had a lynch which gave us no VCA-information at all. Scums may or may not have been on the wagon and because of the flip noone stands out as a possibility at all. And I, personally, had never seen that horribly-strong Persivul case.
I know that I'm terrible now. If I had had more time, I would have pointed this out in time.

[copper223]

So what you're saying is, if Nos changed their meta in other games to fit what they were claiming in this game, it would suggest they wanted you to see that and assume it was normal, which would be scummy?

Yes.

[Aneninen]

Given those flips, I am ok with Copper or Anen being pressured a bit. You still need 3 more. :-p

@shotty, you mean mainly that I was right on kill and ETL.

You had been hard-townreading me before those flips. Can you explain this?

But I did know he would be lynched. He was. If I thought he wasn't, I would've voted for him.

Exactly, copper. Why are you trying to avoid voting Persivul, Nosferatu?

Not trying to. I just don't need to.

This is pigeon poop. And it's not the only thing that I don't like about you.

I think she is enjoying herself with her

random pushes without explanaitions

a bit too much and after having had more exposure to her playstile I think this is scum indicative.

(This was about Nahdia.) Indeed, and that's not the only thing.

Zakk's 2290 is reasonable.
There's one thing to add. I'd say, a ScumTeam/SK/Vig Nightkill scheme is much more likely. Given the fact we have 3 VT flips (I'm VT too) and a Town Neighbour flip, I don't think two ScumTeams are too probable. I mean, should it be, it may be eg. 15:3:3, but with quite a lot of town-PRs, and according to the flips there may be few town-PRs.

If so

, KTS is indeed a kind of Vig-kill, but I wouldn't rule out a scumhunting SK. TheBrawl looks like an SK-kill, but that may have come from a Vig. Thus, ETL seems to be the Mafia Nightkill. I, personally, think it happened because she's a strong player and she was obv-town (although I must admit that I've never explained that read). However, as someone said, her reads may have been dangerous to the scums, too. BUT, that's only speculation.

Going on soon.

[Aneninen]

Even I have minor reservations on the Persivul wagon, but there's no way I am going for KTS. This is the wierdest collective response to a fake hammer in my recollection.

VC please

ETL, the reads you wanted to give please?

ok I've got shaziro, you, nahdia, liger, magna as town Zakk and pers as maybe town
copper maybe scum. shotty is ??? maybe scum? cy maybe scum less nulls than before but still more than I'd like atm. hang on. need to look at my list. (I'm mobile)

egg maybe scum. HA scum. expedience town. ircher kop are both still unknown. ircher because I don't know what I'm seeing in his ISO. prob lean more town on him than kop. I think Lowell might be town and tbg is null for the same reason ircher is. I can't make up my mind tbere. stuck.

So, Nahdia, you said that you agreed with these.
ETL named these players as scum: Copper, Shotty (?), Cy (?), Egg (?), Heuristic/Shaziro. Yet you were unable to fill in a list of five scummy players.

titus here's my list.
copper
aneninem
titus
you choose, or i will for u. and u won't like my choice.

VOTE: Shotty

seriously why?

^_^
Parrotting that.

Kop is the likeliest hipster scum on the CW, 7 posts mostly dedicated to target Persi without voting for him, reaction testing Aneninen without a follow-up and voting for the random lynch. Seth was bad enough but the replacement actually made it worse.

That is indeed true.
But we need more from Kop. Seth was bad indeed, but his latests (especially that "Pigeon post" about me) told me that I might have been wrong about him.

Not sure if anybody else noticed, but since I replaced HA, ETL's reads there were kinda wonky. HA was scum, but I was town...I don't think that's how replacing in works.

I too noticed that.
(But I had no time to play, blah, blah, sorry.)

[copper223]

So help me get more out of that slot by pressuring it with a vote, Kop doesn't seem to volunteer much information on his own.

[zakk]

No. Vote Lowell

[copper223]

What's your read on Kop Zakk?

[Aneninen]

I'm going to avoid the temptation to gloat about the fact that all of my townreads were right, and suggest this:

Vote: Aneninen

Mm-hm. Yeah, you're a stubborn player indeed.
Still, I'm digging this up because it has been NEVER explained:

I hate Nadhia's tunnel on Ircher. Like, it sucks.

It reeks of trying to come off as way too confident when the substance behind the read is really small. In particular, I dislike her trying to paint Ircher's point system as somehow scummy. At the very worst, that's a completely null tell.

On the other hand though, we actually sort of hiveminded on our read on Anen, and I actually think her read is solid even though I really wish she would give more logic for it

. I also like her pretty solid questioning of Titus. I think maybe my issue with Nadhia is that our playstyles conflict - so I'm not really willing to say that she's scum. In light of the push on Anen that seems to be coming from a town place, she's far more likely to be town.

And it's strange that no one has noticed this:

projectmatt it's such a shame that we have all the same reads and thoughts on this game

but you're scum and im town

ill vote with u tho thank u for bussing [:
VOTE: Aneninem

Nahdia posted a "five-name" list with three actual names.
She agreed with ETL's reads but, as I posted it, she NEVER included those names on her list.
But, it's even more strange that she's kept telling that ProjectMatt is scum (she even posted that Matt was bussing me), YET he's not on his list either AND she voted for me right after Matt.

Adding this to the unexplained part from Matt above plus Matt's attitude to the Persivul-wagon (ISO him, there's quite a lot of content), tells me that Matt must be scum.
If so, Nahdia may be scum, too.

Here's another example:

yah you were like "hah matt is scum" after i did my catch-up/analysis post but i'm not sure why. as long as you continue to have other reads that don't suck, i'm not particularly bothered by it.

radical. we have an understanding. an

accord

even. we can work together as long as u keep bussing ur partners. and who knows, maybe u will eventually magically become town. for now we are at peace

VOTE: Shotty

seriously why?

Also I'm beginning to think this might be a long con after all, and that we're watching the most sustained double-bussing ever.

I don't think so. Do you have anything that can back your idea up?

Titus, Lowell, AND Nadia - what do you think of the last minute wagon trend AWAY from Persivul even though all scum whatever kind knew he wasn't them? And with KTS flipping town too even more WTF

What if certain players were never sold on that Persivul-case?

also, why did ETL die?

Check one of my posts above.

VOTE: Titus
Am I the only person that finds it sus that she has taken a leadership position in this game and with three dead people, she's not one of them?

That's bad.
You know, not everyone can die at the same Night. If eg. ETL were alive now, would you vote for her just because of that?

VOTE: Shotty

seriously why?

Also I'm beginning to think this might be a long con after all, and that we're watching the most sustained double-bussing ever.

It's possible, but it would be hard to make it look authentic.

Whut?

[zakk]

What's your read on Kop Zakk?

Read on Kop is ???
Read on Seth was townish

Haven't been looking at Kop much

[projectmatt]

Anen, that was a really ugly OMGUS that I'm too lazy to counter right now but probably will tomorrow. Would you care to expand on that logic? What specifically about the content of my reaction toward the Pers wagon threw you off?

[Expedience]

brb

[Aneninen]

Anen_scum being on the 3rd beauty wagon before going V/LA makes a lot of sense, if Anen is scum then Magma likely is as well (see Anen's defence / not defence when I asked him what he thought about my push on him).

I do not buy the case for Zakk_scum.

Erm... what?
Are you saying that I had known what sort of wagons had been going to emerge later when I had to V/LA?

So help me get more out of that slot by pressuring it with a vote, Kop doesn't seem to volunteer much information on his own.

If he keeps doing nothing, I may do so.
But, I have better ideas. Firstly, check the post above about Matt/Nahdia.
Secondly, Nosferatu.

441 – A lazy jump on Seth. (Mind that he posted that he hadn't done reading – but the rest of that "reading" had never arrived.)

1255 – I called it a Beetlejuice. Yeah, I may have been wrong about it, but his REACTION to that was terrible. 1263:

"I don't like how he painted my last post as a Beetlejuice tell

when persivul just ninjad me

."

– Most players tell being ninja-ed instantly or not mention it at all. So, this sounded like a nervous explanation for something which might have disappeared in the thread later.

Back to 1263 – He shadowed my wagon when it existed and there had been a chance for it gaining momentum.

1375 – Accusing Persivul performing a Chainsaw looks horrible now, knowing Persivul was town.

In my opinion, 1408 was the worst post from him. He DID translate my terrible drunkpost (and assuming he's neither German nor Dutch, it must have taken serious effort!). But he did NEVER draw any conclusion out of it! Even if he had a scumread on me at that time... That's something scums often do when they don't know whether a wagon will gain momentum or not.

1896 –

"if the mod wanted a group of all town with a PT, he'd make them masons."

, about the Neighbourhood. As far as I can remember, at that time the "there must be a scum in the hood" topic had been emerged. His logic was bad in itself, but if I'm right about him and he's scum, we should consider the possibility of an all-town Neighbourhood. (I've seen things like that, link will be provided if needed.)

(By the way, 2025 was a joke which I find null in itself.)

And I've already talked about eg. his 2274; 2275 was WTF (filling out Nahdia's list), and his whole interaction with Shaziro makes him look even worse.

VOTE: Nosferatu

[Aneninen]

Anen, that was a really ugly OMGUS that I'm too lazy to counter right now but probably will tomorrow. Would you care to expand on that logic? What specifically about the content of my reaction toward the Pers wagon threw you off?

Try again. You've constantly evaded explaining the highlighted part about Nahdia's pushes.
As for your Persivul-attitude, 1226 (okay, a scumread, but with little explanation compared to your reads on others), 1745 (shadowing the wagon), 2245 (your Persivul-read didn't seem to change, his posts affected it in neither way), just to name a couple of things.

What do you think of Nahdia's read on you?

[copper223]

Erm... what?
Are you saying that I had known what sort of wagons had been going to emerge later when I had to V/LA?

More like you are a possible left-over from the scum transfer from TBG to Persivul.

[copper223]

I am not getting a hang of this game because the players that agree with me more are the ones that can trick me as scum.

@Anen
Tackle the big questions, is Titus scum?

[Aneninen]

Erm... what?
Are you saying that I had known what sort of wagons had been going to emerge later when I had to V/LA?

More like you are a possible left-over from the scum transfer from TBG to Persivul.

I still don't get you. I didn't scumread Persivul at all. His ETL-push was the only thing looked scummy. I know I haven't read those pages I missed thoroughly, but the whole case was at least partly based upon that "scum in the Neighbourhood" theory. What do you think of that?

@Anen
Tackle the big questions, is Titus scum?

I want to see her answer for my question right now.

[copper223]

I still don't get you. I didn't scumread Persivul at all. His ETL-push was the only thing looked scummy. I know I haven't read those pages I missed thoroughly, but the whole case was at least partly based upon that "scum in the Neighbourhood" theory. What do you think of that?

I'll do a summary of the transfer from TBG to Persi after work, that should be useful. Your position is a extravagant because scum or town Titus was right that Persi and TBG were acting as a block, turns out it was a town block and she either took advantage of it or screwed up (I am very slightly leaning towards the latter but almost out of respect I have to think I don't know how to read her and she is scum ffs), I am trying to make sense of that anomaly in your reads.

Regarding the PT, as I already explained, if there is one it's Magma, there are some things that point at him being town and some scum (those I already mentioned, he claimed to be vetting me to make use of the PT but then had a terrible connection (which I believe) but didn't even ask me a question in the post he made, he also claimed to be scumreading TBG and shotty, that shows little read adaptation after the NK cause it would imply TBG WK'd his CW as scum and that would be a really weird move.

Liger reads as town to me.

But yeah I get your point on Nos.