Please don't feel bad about what happened here, NSG.
Also, a quick note to explain what happened at the end of yesterday: I'm at work (shouldn't really be posting at all but I have downtime between waiting on emails, queries running, stuff compiling and regular breaks), I didn't want to attempt a co-ordinated hammer when I couldn't guarantee I'd be at my computer at any given moment (I was wary of Wisdom doing a quick unvote), so I asked Kokichi to post a bit around the same time as me to "confirm" we aren't scum together (with the aim of later hammering). I probably should have hammered immediately after Kokichi voted, though - I was just being extra cautious. Sorry if anyone thought that was bad manners or whatever!
See:
G2 lynch wins the game
Koki being swapped into g1 wins the game.
The pre switch partition was a combination of 1/2/0.
There was unnecessary amount of risking trying to get 2 scum when all we needed is 1 scum.
Sorry nsg I fell asleep while posting a big post about why I couldn't believe you at the time. Here if you want
Spoiler: click
Sigh
Nsg can we please distinguish when we are talking about meta and when we are talking about something else? Because too much is being misunderstood by both of us.
"You would say this as scum too" refers to your justification for wanting g3 lynched. Meaning as scum you would also be forced to say "well if eddie and muffin cannot be scum together and wisdom is town and I am town that must mean g3 has 2 scum in it"
So anything you are saying at this point in the game about the lynch is NAI. I can neither townread nor scumread you for it. I must look at other things.
As for your meta:
Yes you didn't post as scum when we were partnered. That game was much smaller and faster than this. Relative to the number of pages and days taken at this game you have not posted very much
until recently
.
The increased effort and self-preservation instincts are yet again NAI. Yes I fully believe you will lose if we don't lynch g3 and I believe you believe it. But you will lose if we lynch you regardless of your alignment. So this statement isn't a lie or fake even whether you're scum or town.
I don't look up games I wasn't a part of for meta research. I think people miss out on the important relative subcontext of the posts if they don't actually experience the game live.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:08 pm
by zMuffinMan
I'm fine with it being shared (now rather than later if you want). I don't think there's anything sensitive in there; it's 20ish pages of me spamming stuff.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:09 pm
by northsidegal
In post 2378, BuJaber wrote:I don't look up games I wasn't a part of for meta research.
This is fundamentally a bad approach.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:10 pm
by northsidegal
meh.
good game.
sorry for being bitter.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:10 pm
by Kokichi Oma
you can post the scum thread
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:10 pm
by Kokichi Oma
gg all, it was fun. NSG if it makes you feel better i think you and dramonic played the best this game
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:11 pm
by Kokichi Oma
wisdom was town's downfall. I just wanted to have 4 towns lynched day 1, but his swap made it possible for all town to be lynched.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:11 pm
by implosion
I would also like to give a shout out to all of you for letting me run a game with 0 replacements and 1 prod
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:12 pm
by BuJaber
Oh and muffin being scum
Anyway only point that I feel important to say. The partitions should have changed how people view lynches and lylo. I couldn't understand why people thought mislynching was as bad as they did when info is everything. Also that as long as you kill 1 scum per day the scum are forced to partition in ways that will always give us safe options to lynch because they can't make a group with 0.
I still think the game is fine if all are vanilla roles.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:13 pm
by zMuffinMan
I felt so, so bad for you, seeing how hard you were trying, but I couldn't really help you out. I think you played really well, though.
I don't think any town player played bad (even though I have a feeling people are going to criticise Wisdom, his reads were pretty good D1 apart from Kokichi and D2 he had at least me worried before Eddie did his swap). This setup is just weird and allows scum to play mind-games.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:13 pm
by zMuffinMan
First line @NSG obv.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:15 pm
by Kokichi Oma
In post 2385, implosion wrote:I would also like to give a shout out to all of you for letting me run a game with 0 replacements and 1 prod
it was a fun game and idea! would like to pre /in your next game.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:15 pm
by northsidegal
i'm not angry at anyone. people are wrong, it happens. i've been wrong before. i'll be wrong again soon.
there's just something that absolutely kills me inside having to mark this one down as a loss.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:16 pm
by BuJaber
Koki nsg was lurky in d1 and got your meta wrong and dramon was parroting muffin neither did a great job.
We all share the blame:
Town played badly.. it's a new setup people don't know how to play it yet
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:17 pm
by BuJaber
And fitz did a good job of soundimg townie and RMOJ didn't even play day 2
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:20 pm
by zMuffinMan
I don't think town played badly. People making mistakes doesn't mean they played badly. REAL MAN being MIA D2 wasn't a good thing though, yeah.
Oh, and everything I said about theory was 100% unrelated to my alignment, Buj. If you want to talk theory, feel free to ask questions, but I will largely be saying the same thing I said in game. Lynching G2 without a swap OR after swapping a single player was the best approach, even without the power of hindsight. And your theories D2 were flawed because, well, Eddie was town...
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:23 pm
by BuJaber
Yeah
Well if yiu believed what you were saying then I fundamentally disagree with your strategy and eddie's strategy.
He didn't have a shred of regret for his moving koki to g3. For me I would have put him in g1 everytime.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:26 pm
by northsidegal
putting him in g1 splits it into 1/1/1
perhaps better for getting
any
scum lynch, but lynching two scum seems better than lynching one along with obvious town, to me.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:33 pm
by BuJaber
Still think with some tinkering you could use long objective arguments as to what is the theoritically best move for town as a scum clue.
I've noticed I and other people as scum having those kind of arguments dominating their ISO.
Pedit - Nsg The point would be to avoid a loss if you are wrong. Since there was at least 1 guilty in wis/koki/me lynching the guilty one with up to 2 townies means we can move forward. He also knows that as town the remaining 2 players can never have 2 scum.
It means that all you need to do is find town consensus on 1 scummy player and lynching them means we don't lose.
Here we needed everyone to agree that there are 2 town in g3.
The scenario that played out D1 here was exactly the sort of thing that following the theory I outlined would have avoided.
You can disagree all you want, but that just makes you wrong. It's simply not a good idea to trust reads over doing the logical thing when doing the logical thing has little downside and trusting reads over it potentially does.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:37 pm
by zMuffinMan
In post 2396, BuJaber wrote:Still think with some tinkering you could use long objective arguments as to what is the theoritically best move for town as a scum clue.
The only difference between what I would have said here as town and what I actually said here as scum is that as town, I would have been much more aggressively asserting that my opinion was the right one and that it should be followed.
It really had nothing to do with my alignment. (Also, my ISO wasn't anywhere near as dominated by that discussion as you're asserting it was; I did pretend to scum-hunt in between it all!)
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:39 pm
by Kokichi Oma
no clue why eddie didnt just move one of his scumreads into group 2 day 1
