Well I more meant plenty of time left in the day phase to establish myself as nightkill-worthy. But while we're on the subject of that, I guess it does apply to the number of night phases I can have to get nightkilled.In post 2344, House wrote:Strange statement if that's supposed to be coming from a town perspective, considering there's only 1 scum left.
Obviously, if the last scum gets eliminated, then the game ends, but if we don't end the game today: I can die tonight.
If I live to see tomorrow, that's 5 alive; if the game doesn't end then, I can die then.
So less than I thought (for some reason I thought we had 9 alive so that there'd be 3 nights before lylo rather than 2), but still a reasonably long amount of time. I obviously prefer to be a bit more of a shortsighted battering ram of sorts, where I don't need to plan to the lategame since I intend to die or end the game with scum all dead before then, but that doesn't mean I can't. Whenever I am in a game where I've got decent reason to believe that I won't die like my preferred battering ram approach, I always plan ahead, I always think ahead, I always try to balance for the planning, long-term town strategy involved, thinking ahead, setting up for the long 'con' (in spite of being town). And I'm more or less saying that there's plenty of time for my planning and strategy to lead to my death pre-lylo.
I mean.
In post 2336, mastina wrote:Granted, I imagine that doesn't hardclear me. I could still have the knowledge from scumbuddies, I guess. But I wasn't aware T3 was Crono until he flipped as such.
While I'm not convinced Lukewarm's town, he does give off town vibes. He's definitely "town enough", as it were. We're not talking, "in final 4 autocleared town", if Lukewarm reached final 4 that would trigger alarms and a need to reevaluate if he's really town, but town enough means, basically, "cleared until final 4" to me.In post 2338, Angel Warriors wrote:I believe all of us agree lukewarm is town so it should be good to do that?
For the record, you're the other slot I have in that category. Higher up mind you, borderline autocleared-even-in-final-4, but I've not done the needed isowork there to be sure. (You are a slot whose both heads I feel like I can read pretty well and you look town but I've not looked at your iso to make sure.)
In post 2339, Roden wrote:Mastina please just pick somebody to claim next. That choice matters in regards to trying to read you.
If you want better than that, what you need to do is to give me time to actually develop tangible reads. I'm mostly improvising, flying by the seat of my pants right now, in trying to find a direction, trying to get a lockdown, trying to get a grasp, a hold, on the game, where to look, what to focus on, what to dig into, where to search, etc.In post 2334, mastina wrote:Not-Angel Warriors and not-you(Lukewarm) would be the best I've got.
On its own, that's a process which takes time. It can be sped up by people interacting with me, giving me better ideas on things to focus on, giving me information, perspectives, etc., but nobody has given me much in that way yet, soooooo.
I repeat:
You have only yourselves to blame.In post 2334, mastina wrote:you want someone whohasn't read the gameand, explicitly,has no reads, to be the first person to choose someone next to claim? Very poor decision.
I've got fuckall of any idea who to select next, it'd literally be selecting a name out of a hat.
I
am
trying tho. I'm working on it.For the record I've had my thoughts on the setup from the moment I got my role PM but I would like to stress that I feel like any speculation about the nature of the setup is anti-town and only serves to benefit the scum. If the scum don't know what to think about the setup, what to expect, etc., then why the fuck should we give them that insight? So I would strongly encourage you not talk about this chain of thought. Massclaiming is fine, setup spec is not.In post 2341, Lukewarm wrote:I disagree on frog claiming vt. That seems pointless, and just sets us up to all claim VT, and get no where :/
I have a philosophy for precisely this situation!In post 2343, Roden wrote:We're in a really tough spot and I don't think it's wise to trust anyone unless we figure out a hard clear.
It's a philosophy that causes a great deal of grief to town players who're, rightly, miffed that they are suddenly being scumread out of what amounts to paranoia, but in spite of that inherent flaw to the philosophy, I consider it a necessary evil to invoke it when we get to the situation where the last scum can't be found easily:
"When everyone has a reason to be town, it means at least one person who has reason to be town, isn't."
Or some variation on that to give the same basic meaning.
Which is that you have to delve into the reasons for every player being town and delve into the reasons for every player being scum. If a player has absolutely no reason to be scum, then you aren't being critical enough in your evaluation/thinking. Even a player who you can soulread, have strong meta on, have very very strong reasons to be town, isn't immune to this--if you can't see the reasons for that player possibly being scum, you've made a grave mistake, even if the read you have is 200% correct.
The point of this isn't so much to have zero townreads and to scumread everyone, but to engage in more thorough critical thinking, that both gets rid of your biases, gets rid of your preconceived notions, and forces you to analyze more deeply and thoroughly every slot in the game and then weigh them on a scale. So that player who you can soulread and have strong meta on and has strong reasons to be town? After you can see the reasons for that player to possibly be scum, you then dismantle the reasons for why they could possibly be scum by recognizing how weak those reasons are, how unlikely those reasons are, and reestablish how strong the reasons for them to be town are, to solidify them as a slot you should never ever eliminate, at the top of your tierlist from towniest to scumiest.
And then you keep on doing that for every slot in the game, repeating the analysis. Weighing the merits of the reasons for them to be scum (are they valid or are they surface) vs. weighing the merits of the reasons for them to be town (are they valid or are they surface) to evaluate towniest to least-townie overall, instead of trying to necessarily locate the final scum.
