Newbie 1859 (Game Over)

[ofrhz]

I was thinking of mass claiming since everyone was down to PoE, but how would we decide the order of claims?

[ofrhz]

Massclaim the day before LyLo is generally good, was surprised you guys didn't do that sooner.

my thoughts: huh. I wonder if mass claiming would be good here. maybe we shouldn't have lynched the IC..."

A completely town motivated lynch

[Mathdino]

Mechanics!

Order of claims almost always goes from most scummy to least scummy. If I ordered the claims, I'd have done
Scioness --> ofhrz --> pintu --> ruru --> skitter --> NSG --> Oxy
Scioness would've cleared NSG immediately, dropping NSG to the back. Then it would be up to pintu/ruru whether to open themselves up to counterclaim (as it seems they would've) or just claim VT, allowing Sci/Oxy to be totally confirmed.

[Mathdino]

tbh NSG should lowkey have been the de facto IC after drixx and i both died

[Oxy]

She pretty much was, wasn't she?

[Scioness Sajj]

skitter was never antitown. skitter's game mvp imo

gg ruru and pin, you played well!

Eh, not really tbh. I got too tunneled. It was probably math.

Best thing I did this game was be stubborn on my townread on you.

well if you weren't I wouldn't have died a cop with a result so there is that.

[Mathdino]

Here's the Open queue if you guys wanna /in 721 with me btw!

Some people play more newbie games, some people jump right into the normal/open queues. I consider the theme queues a bit heavy and unpredictable design-wise for a second or third game; it's hard to tell what setups will be like at first without getting a feel for the site.

[Mathdino]

She pretty much was, wasn't she?

in multiple ways lol
inexperienced challenge + innocent child

skitter also could've taken that role but she was heavily suspect after yesterday i guess

i also don't know how well skitter/NSG are versed in setup spec and mechanics

[Oxy]

oh for some reason I only read inno child there. ya, I should have asked nsg

[Oxy]

/in'd for the 721 so you can call me town some more

[pinturicchio]

We killed Dino because he talked about a Neapolitan at some point and that was very specific instead of talking about a cop, so I thought he was the PR along with Oxy. I wanted to kill Oxy and roleblock Dino, but ruru was afraid of Dino and it was a good idea yo kill him and make Scioness even more suspicious. Problem is, when Dino flipped VT, it was either Scioness or NSG the other PR, so I had to push skitter. Along the way I saw that skitter was playing too good, so I thought it would be a good idea to "reconsider my reads" and go for ofrhz, the obv!VT. WE WERE SO CLOSE

[Oxy]

don't worry, I'll post 1/3 as much

[ruru]

Sorry

[Oxy]

I had to read ruru's claim like 3 times before the words made sense lol

i don't think you'll make that mistake again

[Scioness Sajj]

Scioness, sorry for the whole "she played a good scumgame that one time therefore she is omnipotent". That happens a lot to people, haha. I'm not entirely sure why you checked NSG since, going by your D2 logic, my read was good enough there anyway, but I can also see you making up that logic to justify your inno result.

It's fine I understand why it happend but it got to me super hard. Felt like it was actually the only reason people were suspecting me D1 and I had been second guessing myself a lot. If you weren't nk'd I would probably replace out though, haha.

I thought that people could undermine your read on NSG if you were to get killed and try to lynch her for lurking again. I really wanted to have a conf town in this mess and nobody else was actually fitting. Your read was a bonus for easier soft claim yeah.

[ruru]

I was thinking something along the lines of "omg we lost, the only thing that could save us is a town player claiming 4th PR"

"maybe I should claim 4th PR"

[skitter30]

skitter, you literally called out Oxy for being a PR on day 1 and then continued tunneling him D2 . I didn't wanna make it too obvious that a huge part of my townread was his PR softclaim, but I do think he townslipped. You also did well in producing enough content that would just be impossible for scum-skitter-without-RC to produce (I will admit your game with RC really threw me off in evaluating your scumrange.
I'm really surprised we haven't played together on individual accounts outside of this game before. Should remedy that.
And yeah, there were a few times where you spewed a little TOO much. But that did end up being a towntell down the line.

I know, pointing out the soft was pretty stupid of me.

I was tunneled and just couldn't get over how scummy he felt.

I really thought he was faking and angling to set up a cc for massclaim, especially since I had picked up on pin setting up a tracker claim too.

And yeah I was hilariously out of my scumrange by ~first drixx wagon and I was basically never flipping scum on meta.

(My scumrange is not particularly large. And I haven't rolled scum since like August either so my scumgame hasn't had a chance to improve)

All-in-all, not one of my better games tbh.

Happy I was right on scioness though.

[skitter30]

Okay, all good points. You did that iso of scioness I didn't want to do. I'm game for whatever direction you want to explore.

Things like this actually made me flip out

And things like that made me partner-read you.

[Mathdino]

The main reason I actually legitimately suspected you was the Oxy case/push.

Cases serve two purposes in my experience (as town):
1. Convince others of your way of thinking
2. Organise the evidence and your thoughts better so you can lead yourself to a good conclusion

Sometimes I'll realise my read on someone and make a case to say "okay mofos we're lynching here" or "what the fuck why are you scumreading [x]".
Sometimes I'll sit down and say "I have no read on [x], let's pull a bunch of quotes and do some meta and see where it leads me".

As a general statement (not directed at Scioness solely), I think a lot of cases this game were anti-town because they served more of a purpose to convince yourselves that you were right, rather than convincing others, or coming at ISOs with an open mind.

It doesn't help you, your target, or the audience to tell someone "here's an itemised list of 30 pages of disagreements and why you're scum". If they're town, they'll know you're wrong and you have no common ground. And if they're scum, they're gonna try to rip the case apart anyway.

But cases DO help scum because it can give the impression that you're producing a lot of content, and you have strong opinions, and you're actually pushing your "scumreads". There are a few players on this site known for calling cases scummy.

So I guess what I'm saying is I thought your cases benefited scum-you more than it benefited town-you. That doesn't justify my incorrect read, but it is where it came from.

[pinturicchio]

@Dino, were you reading the game after dying? What do you think about my scumgame here compared to Tit for Tat?

[skitter30]

I was a good kill I think. Not for my scumreads (my scumreads were awful, I was cheering for a Scioness/ofhrz lynch in the dead thread the whole time), but because I would've defused the skitter/Oxy 1v1 and stonewalled both lynches. I probably would've gone after Scioness, gotten the cop claim, then gone after ofhrz, and THEN dug into pintu/ruru the following day.

Yeah. I think you were probably the only person who could have gotten me untunneled this game tbh.

Also people were using your nk as a reason to scumread me, and like, scum!me never kills you last night.

[Mathdino]

@Dino, were you reading the game after dying? What do you think about my scumgame here compared to Tit for Tat?

I actually didn't notice you after I died, which is probably a good thing all things considered. Most of what I remember reading was Oxy vs skitter vs Scioness

Also figured out at a certain point that there was something wrong with the gamesolve. I read the game mostly from Oxy's perspective given how obvtown he was (and I honestly figured scum roleblocked him since they killed me and he was obv PR). Started suspecting skitter a bit, shut that down. With {Oxy, skitter, NSG} as conftown FMPOV I was really just cheerleading my lynch order (lol wrong) and questioning NSG's pintu towntell because I knew PoE would lead back there at a certain point.

[skitter30]

I really wanna read the dead/scum PTs.

Again, ruru/pin, you guys did an awesome job

It was really PoE that got us there I think; you both played very well.

[Oxy]

I second Skitter's sentiment 100%

[Mathdino]

Every newbie game I've played has essentially been solved by PoE. Shows a lot, I think, since I've never played a newbie game against an outright bad scumteam. It's just one of those things scum can't overcome.

skitterrrrr join open 721