Mafiascum.net

A summary of why I think Espeonage is town, which is probably going to be the last I'll say on the matter:

-When he first enters the game, he's trying to get involved in the thread and do stuff despite clearly having not read most of the game. This isn't a very strong point at all, but still something I find indicative of town, as I feel scum are more likely to care about knowing what's been going on in the game (or at least having a grasp of the mechanics and whatnot) before making a huge string of posts.
-I thought him saying he was thinking of being baned in 663 was quite town. Scum saying this would worry that something like this would make them an easy target to be baned since they've already said they don't have a problem with it, and it's really in scum's best interests to have someone from the town baned if they can help it. I can also understand why town would want to be baned.
-His approach to Tammy seems very unlikely as coming from scum. I obviously completely disagree with him scumreading the slot, but I'm pretty sure it would have become obvious to Espe-scum at some point that the way he was approaching her was not going to improve her read on him and yet he continues to do it which doesn't make any sense from scum whatsoever, who I feel would be much more concerned with looking town.
-His claim in 976 is yet another thing that is super weird if he's scum. It attracts attention unnecessarily yet I can understand the thought process where he sees himself as never being NK'd anyway and wants to shake up the game. As scum it just limits his options, so really doesn't seem worth it from a scum perspective!
-There is no way that Espe can be scum and not know what detect does. If he is scum, then the whole confusion over getting a positive effect from guessing right has to be completely made up. And here's the thing, no one claimed a trace on him, so there was no need for him to even do it to begin with. It unnecessarily attracts attention and while I could see it as a pre-emptive strike against anyone who possibly would have traced him, I feel like the obvious move for scum would be to just not say anything at all?
-One of his interactions with Tammy he clearly misread something that Tammy said (1976) and then apparently never made any attempt to check that what he said was actually correct or based on valid assumptions. I had trouble seeing this from town, but I have even more trouble seeing this from scum, since I think they would be more self-conscious about their posts and realise what was going on.

The problem with all this is that leaves open the possibility that Espe is in fact scum who is doing all the lack of set-up understanding, and lack of awareness as an act, which I do see as possible. However, if we're going with regfan's initial theory that Espe would perhaps spend a token on scum because of his grand scum manipulation plans (I don't think I was part of this conversation for what it's worth), then I believe he would do it differently from how he is posting here. And so I have a townread.

I don't actually have anything concrete on ActionDan or Aronis that I feel makes them likely scum, but they are still the two who I feel most comfortable lynching, with ActionDan being slightly preferred over Aronis.

I don't know how active I'll be over the next couple of days, as I think I need a mini-break from mafia. We'll see what happens.

Oversoul/Marquis/TSO/Vezok/DV

With me!

:/

fucking busting my ass arguing against your wagon.

↑ singersigner wrote:Oversoul/Marquis/TSO/Vezok/DV

With me!

that's like the most adorable thing I think I've ever seen

↑ fferyllt wrote:fucking busting my ass arguing against your wagon.

I really don't know what to tell you. You don't have a vote, so while I appreciate your efforts (<3), it doesn't really seem like many people are taking your contributions as seriously as they should (incoming Titus rage). I'm either going to be lynched or I'm not, but without a vote, unfortunately your word doesn't mean much for the lynch mob, especially not until there's a flip to compare your reads to as you won't be able to follow up on any of them after today.

If Nacho wanted to elaborate on he knows I'm town, that would help, but otherwise, his words seem to fall on deaf ears.

I'm fery's proxy vote though.
So she does have a vote.

Alternatively, you could appeal to their logick train in that as long as you're alive, there's no point killing off a confirmed town's townread, since they seem to be pretty stubborn about us doing the same theirs!

Mastin's ears shouldn'tbe deaf to Nacho.

And you're doing exactly what Titus is doing - directly undermining my efforts to work out a consensus lynch so I don't really care what either of you rage about in each other's play. I think you're both town so I'm not going to yell for either of you to be wagonned about it.

I think the lynch pool that might net a consensus lynch is {Action Dan, Aronis...espe} with espe trailing the other two because DV and Marquis may be a voting bloc.

Ffery, what do you think of my case on TTH/Shadoweh?

I won't mind Shadoweh being lynched just because of her not obvtowning like she did in touhou upick 3

singersigner wrote:Ffery, what do you think of my case on TTH/Shadoweh?

I'm going to defer to Nacho on reading Shadoweh because he has a ton more experience at it. There are specific things that have bothered me about her play, but Nacho says it makes sense coming from town-Shadoweh with the exception of one recent issue I'm waiting for him to weigh in on. I'm assuming you have a fair bit of past experience with her too, so I'm quite curious to see what Nacho makes of your case.

I have a very specific concern about tth' play which I'm holding close right now. I was fine with her coming under some pressure today. I kinda wish it had been stronger pressure but that's water under the bridge.

I haven't addressed your cases at all, I know. I probably will in a couple days once gestalt actually is all caught up and gestalting.

Ah...I have no past game-related knowledge of her myself. I've probably played with her at one point, but I don't retain your kind of meta-memory unless it's recent or significant. Anything meta related is coming from Regfan. I only noted what I personally had issues with this game.

↑ fferyllt wrote:Mastin's ears shouldn'tbe deaf to Nacho.

What does this mean, and what does it tell you that she's not even remotely humoring him?

↑ singersigner wrote:

↑ fferyllt wrote:Mastin's ears shouldn'tbe deaf to Nacho.

What does this mean, and what does it tell you that she's not even remotely humoring him?

It tells me that she wanted something specific from nacho.

The question isn't whether mastin's town.

I'm about to head into a very busy part of my life right now, so I'm just going to announce V/LA until Saturday.



Won't be very active until then but I will be around and may post occasionally.
In the mean time, what is the case on Espeonage?

↑ fferyllt wrote:

↑ Bulbazak wrote:I'm not sure what to make of this. Really, this is quite horrible. Please just give me a complete reads list now, because I think Mollie is right and your reads are way out there.

Ask mollie what to make of it.

I will. I'll get back to you when I get an answer.

↑ mastin2 wrote:
I don't care if Bulbazak is scum, he's so town that he's town.

Now I really wish I was scum, because I want to add this to my sig.

↑ mastin2 wrote:

↑ Tammy wrote:There are problems with Bulbazack and with Mastin, but I'm going to go do something else.

Hey, Bulbazak.
Hey, TTH.
Let's invite Titus, too.

Want to make a "bloody insane townbloc" made up of people who are, apparently, well...yaknow?

Sure. It's about the only chance we have of actually producing results.

↑ singersigner wrote:

TTH scum read is based on two large things:

1.

TTH visiting DV

: DV is widely regarded as one of the most universally town-read people in this game, and my team has a really hard time justifying what kind of role could be provable that would justify this action. He's fairly active and far from incompetent, and seems like a prime N1 scum kill target. Without mentioning or commenting on DV during Minor Day 1, and stressing her town read of Marquis with the Boon vote, it looks like scum trying to find the sign for that accurate night kill. Her return in Post 1484 and reaction in Post 1486 make very little sense from our perspective. Like I said earlier, we feel so strongly that this is not a town-motivated action or reaction, that we don't want to give her the opportunity to come back and fake-claim something later based on more scum results and the likelihood that this was done in order to kill DV.

2.

TTH replacing in:

Before you get your panties in a bunch, it's not just because Anti replaced out and he hates being scum. The excuse given was that Anti didn't have time for this game and couldn't keep up with how large it had gotten. Because of this, I/we would expect much more out of her. Even Titus has accredited her with being competent, so it's weird that she's satisfied with TTH's contributions which we all have found to be underwhelming at best. Not only that, but her contributions basically break down like this: 30% defending her action last night, agreeing with Mastin through Post 1520 (which feels like scum taking advantage of Mastin's terrible reads), disappearing for three days only to come back and comment on Tammy's case/how busy she is/how she has reads but doesn't give them (Post 2116), then attacking DV's reads in Post 2117.

It boils down to actively lurking unless she's the topic of conversation, and not being able to substantiate the reasons for her action while simultaneously being as little a factor in this game as Antihero was.

This is horrible and incredibly shallow. The first point is essentially an attempt to mislynch a PR or rolefish to see if they need to be NK'd. The second is garbage and surface level, since it relies on the null action of the swap plus activity level in a large game with close to 100 pages. This is not town reasoning folks.

↑ Oversoul wrote:But seriously, why the hell are you voting Shadoweh?

Because Shadoweh is town.

↑ fferyllt wrote:We both townread Empire's replace out.

At most, the replace out was null. That slot hasn't done anything to be town read for.

↑ fferyllt wrote:

@bulba,

This is my one reach-out to you. If you want to convince me you're town or work with me in this game, then it will have to be without further posts that I interpret as sniping and discrediting. Talk about your reads, not my shortcomings.

I asked you for a reads list. Where is it? I want to know for sure where you're standing on everything so I can begin to address the differences in our reads.

↑ GuyInFreezer wrote:I won't mind Shadoweh being lynched just because of her not obvtowning like she did in touhou upick 3

Shadoweh is conf. town and is never going to be lynched as long as I'm alive. If you think Mastin can raise a fuss on TTH, you haven't seen what I can do when someone tries to get a wagon going on a conf. townread.

@Esp: I asked you to go over why you were scumreading Tammy again. Why did you ignore me?

↑ Bulbazak wrote:I asked you for a reads list. Where is it? I want to know for sure where you're standing on everything so I can begin to address the differences in our reads.

a formal list will hit the thread when I've finished discussing some stuff with my team. I think I've talked enough about players/reads that there won't be much in the way of surprises.

conf town is a strong statement.

Oh my god. This is a powder keg. I want to start kicking people. Mastina's being stubborn. Bulba is threatening to go postal... I hope this goes well...

↑ fferyllt wrote:conf town is a strong statement.

It is, and it's said for a good reason that I can't go into. You'll have to trust me on this one.

I will have to have a townread before trust is an option.