Mafiascum.net

In post 2421, karnos wrote:Your entire argument about titus is that titus hates busing so I am scum because I did not vote titus.

yeah wait where is this coming from??

I was using that argument (Titus hates bussing) to say that I'M town because Titus isn't going to push her buddy the way she pushed you. You're completely irrelevant to that point??

lmao

*the way she pushed me

It's 1 a.m. but if I'm going to have a quote war with karnos i should hop on a computer. sorry for the spam

In post 2422, gigabyteTroubadour wrote: Me "bussing" Titus has nothing to do with Titus's scum meta, it's Titus "bussing" me that does. And the point isn't even meta, you never addressed what scum have to gain from a double bus that could very well risk their most important member.

Also stop misrepping my argument and saying it's 100% meta when it's not??

That is a meta argument. There is no other way you get town cred except but this insane theory that a titus alt is incapable of busing.

And I think I have been clear in my point: I'm not accusing you of exclusively using meta, I am accusing you of using meta. Insofar as you claim titus is somehow completely incapable of playing against her meta, while simultaneously assuming I am playing against my scum!meta. It just doesn't add up if you are thinking logically from a town perspective.

So yeah, you aren't using 100% meta, LOL, of course not, because if you were you would be defeating your own argument. You are picking and choosing to use META where it fits your bias and ignoring it otherwise.

In post 2427, karnos wrote:

In post 2422, gigabyteTroubadour wrote: Me "bussing" Titus has nothing to do with Titus's scum meta, it's Titus "bussing" me that does. And the point isn't even meta, you never addressed what scum have to gain from a double bus that could very well risk their most important member.

Also stop misrepping my argument and saying it's 100% meta when it's not??

That is a meta argument. There is no other way you get town cred except but this insane theory that a titus alt is incapable of busing.

And I think I have been clear in my point: I'm not accusing you of exclusively using meta, I am accusing you of

selectively

using meta. Insofar as you claim titus is somehow completely incapable of playing against her meta, while simultaneously assuming I am playing against my scum!meta. It just doesn't add up if you are thinking logically from a town perspective.

So yeah, you aren't using 100% meta, LOL, of course not, because if you were you would be defeating your own argument. You are picking and choosing to use META where it fits your bias and ignoring it otherwise.

of course titus is capable of breaking her meta. but the burden of proof is on you to explain she is breaking her meta, because I don't think she's going to break her meta just to break her meta. btw "so people can't meta her" isn't a valid answer, meta wouldn't be a thing if people can just deviate from it that easily

i don't think your bussing meta is that clearing for you anyway, Shadow_Step was a goner and you happily voted for him. Titus's lynch could have been stopped if Shadow and Thor voted for me, both of which were within the realm of possibility. I have only played one game with you and you're a relatively new player, you don't have as much of an established meta as Titus does. That's why I'm not clearing you for not telling me I should be suspecting someone else for no reason or because you haven't accused someone of being scum for misspelling their name (best scum argument i've seen ever btw).

i can't even argue with your argument because it's coming from faulty premises and makes too many assumptions. where am i saying that you are playing against your scum meta? yeah, i said you don't feel the same way you did in 646, but i have also said that i never extensively meta'd you so i don't know your actual meta. whenever i type these walls with you i feel like i've never said half of the shit you're telling me i did but i'm arguing with it anyway and it's just really frustrating because it's like you're trying to trap me with "gotcha!" kinda arguments on repeat.

anyway, i already knew that titus is not a busser before playing this game because she's a well-known player, it's not like i went and did research on this in order to get towncred (that i do deserve btw, even if someone else was pushing me that hard, i don't get how someone naturally comes to the conclusion that that was a double-bus). i didn't meta you at all because it never occurred to me that it was something I needed to do. i generally only meta players I find difficult to read, and you were pretty easy to read in 646 so i don't consider you as such. there isn't a selection even being made because that implies that i've dug up evidence that titus is not a busser and i'm conscientiously ignoring that you bus when in reality it's just something i've heard through the grapevines when i joined the site and that you're not the kind of player who has a meta like that

sorry these walls are a mess, i can't argue with this logically and it's 2 a.m., screw revision

Ok, first things first:



@Everyone else: that means I might not be able to post before deadline once my vacation starts.

Sorry for taking so long to post this. I find it difficult to motivate me to do work in a game when there is a risk I'll be nightkilled, so I kind of put of the last part of my reread until a couple of hours ago. It's now past 1.30 am, but I've completed my reread and want to post my thoughts today.

Nero is obvtown, thor's replacement almost certainly protected him after he's proven vig.

During day 2, blitz was pushing Giga hard, even when it became clear that blitz would be the other wagon of that day. I just don't see a scumteam of giga/blitz making that play. Bussing is fine if it gives towncred, but bussing to the extend that it makes a townlynch essentially impossible? Extremely unlikely. I'm considering giga town.

kraska's consistent blitz push during day 2, as well as her defense of giga, speaks strongly in her favour. Another positive point in her favour is giga's belief that she's not playing to her scum meta. There are two negative points: she was defending shadow throughout day 2, and her flipflopping between Karnos and Shadow during day 3 might have been testing if a karnos mislynch was possible that day. The points in favour of her being town seen stronger at the moment, but I'm still not fully convinced. Nero, what are your thoughts on Kraska?

Karnos has been completely tunnelvisioned on giga throughout day 2 and 3. He was fighting the wagons of shadow day 2 (post #1500), and the blitz wagon throughout day 2. Only at the very end of the day was he willing to reluctantly switch to blitz. Throughout day 3, it's the same story: he's pushing giga, and only switches to shadow when there's effectively a guilty. Basically, the only thing that speaks in his favour is the way shadow attacked him at the beginning of day 3 (no, he didn't seem a viable lynch day 2 to me).

Elyse is worse, though. Her position on the blitz wagon is exactly where I expect bussing scum to be: joining the wagon after it already gained substantial moment, on weak reasoning that can be abandoned when a good opportunity arises. Then during day 3, she was fighting the massclaim which revealed nero's guilty on shadow, heavily pushing for a karnos lynch instead. I'm currently inclined to suspect her most.

One question: I'm not familiar with shadows meta, but do you feel that he's more likely to fake an innocent on a partner (Elyse/Kraska) or ignore his partner in his investigations (Karnos)?

Nero Cain wrote:I've been having doubts. Like, idk I still feel like his early game was a bit wonky and I wouldn't put it past him to go "look I'm RVSing scum so I can't be scum!" Sometimes, I think players play pro-town as scum and play like shit as town. I mean when Michel and I played in viewtopic.php?f=53&t=67506 he spent the whole game lynching town and never ONCE did he go back and reasscess. So why does he do that here? Why is a scum flip cause for a reassessment but not a town flip?

The reason I didn't reassess in that game is simple: I concluded that iranoa and gerry were town, and that zap was likely town as well. That left BigYoshiFan, you and maria as the possible scum. BYF townflip didn't contradict that view, so there was no need to reassess.

In this game, on the other hand, blitz scum flip did contradict my previous belief that giga was scum, as the way blitz attacked giga was unlikely to come from scumbuddies. This forced me to rethink.

the point that the third scum has every incentive to stay alive (esstentially a godfather/mother, other two buddies are heavily suspected), making a bus D2 optimal play, is kind of important and why I'm still not really sure about Elyse

Seconding Michel in wanting opinions on Elyse and Kraska from Nero. Mostly Èlysè tho (lol @ my phone autofilling elyse that way for some reason)

On Shadow's meta, I don't really have anything on that. I will say, however, that Kraska reacting really negatively to Shadow's investigation claim D3 and then ME defending shadow and telling kraska to vote elsewhere really does not feel like scumbuddy interactions. especially because it was pre-guilty too. I should look back to D2, but I don't really remember if Elyse even questioned Shadow's investigation? Not that that is ultimately damning, of course...

karnos and elyse look equally suspect to me here tbqh

How was I supposed to know that massclaim would put Nero's guilty? Even if I was scum I wouldn't know that. Why couldn't he just not have shot or there not be a vig?

I still think I was right with the information I had. Now it makes sense why Thor wanted it - he was a bodyguard who could protect the vig. But from my PoV it would only out the vig, and I thought any guilty would have been out in the open already.

Plus if you look back I was like the only one to stick with the guilty the entire time. If I was scum hesitant about bussing shadow, why wouldn't I feed into people's paranoia that shadow was town?

Idk I'm just confused that I was widely townread and now I'm considered to be on the same level as fucking karnos. Really?

That's the thing
Youvr been coasting ever since you got rownread day 1

Meh that's true.

But it's mostly due to me being busy irl. But ok that's fair

i'm honestly leaning towards karnos

but idg why scum!karnos, who is scumread by everyone, doesn't decide to bus when he inevitably is the mafioso who has to make it to end game to win so?

but that hammer D1 was just really bad wrt the fact that two deadline wagons on scum were starting

Let's go friends
VOTE: karnos

we are all ok betting the game on kraska and michel being town right

because we only have 2 lynches left, we win if scum is in {karnos, elyse}

this is knowing i am town btw, so

oh i thought karnos was at l-1

VOTE: Karnos

@Nero
HAMMERU HAMMERU

no not yet

if we're wrong then it'll be mylo

btw besides nero, is there anyone out of all of us you guys would be willing to treat as conftown in mylo? deciding whether or not to no lynch

Ure town and Michele town
Dunno about elyse she hasn't done anything for days and my townread has long since dissipated

if this is wrong i'm feeling a nl tomorrow

we'll see

If there is a day 5, I may not be able to post before going on holiday, as 48 hours from now leaves only Thursday evening European time for me.

The overall plan of lynching Karnos and Elyse to find the last scum seems good, but I'm still having some doubts about Kraska. Nero, I really could do with your thoughts on her, as you're effectively confirmed town.

In post 2432, Elyse wrote:How was I supposed to know that massclaim would put Nero's guilty? Even if I was scum I wouldn't know that. Why couldn't he just not have shot or there not be a vig?

I still think I was right with the information I had. Now it makes sense why Thor wanted it - he was a bodyguard who could protect the vig. But from my PoV it would only out the vig, and I thought any guilty would have been out in the open already.

Plus if you look back I was like the only one to stick with the guilty the entire time. If I was scum hesitant about bussing shadow, why wouldn't I feed into people's paranoia that shadow was town?

Idk I'm just confused that I was widely townread and now I'm considered to be on the same level as fucking karnos. Really?

I think it's well possible that as scum you were trying to prevent a shadow guilty to come out. The gerry kill almost certainly came from a vig, and since scum is highly likely to have a doctor, you would know who you protected night 1. Once the result was out in the open, it couldn't really be fought, but trying to prevent the result to come out seems like a viable scum tactic.

Good job fools. Now town loses because giga is scummy as hell but isn't guaranteed to be the scum. Should have lynched giga today so even if you were wrong you could at least have another chance to find scum, now you get mylo with a huge scum slot like giga clouding things up.

I'd lynch giga, but she will probably convince you otherwise again with BS and town loses. Alternatively giga might actually be town, in which case town loses because they couldn't lynch the scummy as hell player before mylo.

I'm going to be trolling the endgame thread bigtime if it turns out i was right all along and the "experienced" players all gave giga towncred for nothing.

lmao ok kankies

p sure that's twilight trolling so