Mini 2097 - Make Me Regret This Game Over

[mastina]

To put it another way:
There are going to be scum who push things that are absolutely wrong with absolutely wrong logic; there are going to be town who push things that are absolutely wrong with absolutely wrong logic. I'm not sure which alignment does this more often to be honest.
There are going to be scum who push things that end up being wrong but which use really damn good logic; there are going to be town who push things that end up being wrong but which use really damn good logic. The former is the hallmark of the oldguard style of play, but in this day in age is incredibly rare to see; the latter of town being wrong with good logic is incredibly common.
There are going to be scum who push things that are right with good logic; there are going to be town who push things that end up being right with good logic; in this day and age, the former is INCREDIBLY more common than the latter.

And that's just due to the advantages inherent in being the informed minority, versus the uninformed majority.

[Menalque]

I saw all of those prior to reading your push or the kori self-hammer

[Menalque]

Also who successfully protected against the final scumkill?

That actually didn't happen but schadd only posted the relevant kill so lol
Yeah schadd was a help but I need to leave better instructions for my backup mod next time

Who died?

[Gamma Emerald]

After the TL flip I had a bit of a theory about a bus driver existing but I'm not sure about it

Fun fact, that was ones of the developmemt roles, specifically for eth0s

[Gamma Emerald]

Also who successfully protected against the final scumkill?

That actually didn't happen but schadd only posted the relevant kill so lol
Yeah schadd was a help but I need to leave better instructions for my backup mod next time

Who died?

jjh

[jjh927]

I think your tunnel on mastina was probably the only negative thing I can think of about your play though

You even shot a deepwolf

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m kinda disappointed not to have seen the power ups tbh, especially if they came with new flavour

Yeah everything had some good flavor ideas behind it
That was the main point of this game, testing my skill at role writing. That was the meaning of "make me regret" but Korina submitting what he did shooked me

[mastina]

mastina, absent my tunnel on you I would appreciate feedback and/or tips on how I can do better.

Honestly, just time and experience to realize the clash between your idea of mafia theory and the reality of the game as it is on mafiascum.net. Most of what you did which was a 'mistake' was things which originated from you having a view of the game which was fairly evidently one not a viewpoint an experienced player on mafiascum would have.

I'm not really sure how I can really help fix that other than "give it time, look at what you THINK things are, then what they ACTUALLY are, and refine your thoughts to reflect the reality". (With the minor caveat of, unless you're playing dozens of games and seeing the same thing in most of them...your small sample size won't NECESSARILY reflect the reality of the whole site and could just be those games specifically--so basically. With the caveat that you need to critically analyze it and go, "Was this something specific to this game (even if I have seen it in other games), or is it something that applies in general?", more or less.)

[Gamma Emerald]

In hindsight the fact that his power was super fuckin similar to mine should have been an alarm bell
We claimed in our pt and although he said disloyal jailkeeper I was actually thinking in my head all game that it was roleblocker
And it never occurred to me “hmm, two roleblockers for town is kinda weird actually”

I don't know why Gamma didn't just call ethos's role an Alien because combined roleblocker/rolestopper is an existing role, Alien, which has been around onsite since before I joined (it predates 2008), and which has been Normalized as a whitelisted role.

Calling it combined makes it fit in with all those modifiers

I could see it plausibly powering up to separate roleblocking and rolestopping

Also I hate how it is called that
Like how does roleblock + rolestop = "IT WAS ALIENS"

[jjh927]

Also who successfully protected against the final scumkill?

That actually didn't happen but schadd only posted the relevant kill so lol
Yeah schadd was a help but I need to leave better instructions for my backup mod next time

Who died?

jjh

Does that mean Eth0s roleblocked Chemist?

[Gamma Emerald]

objects of power.

What

[Gamma Emerald]

Also who successfully protected against the final scumkill?

That actually didn't happen but schadd only posted the relevant kill so lol
Yeah schadd was a help but I need to leave better instructions for my backup mod next time

Who died?

jjh

Does that mean Eth0s roleblocked Chemist?

Yes

[Menalque]

Thanks mastina + jjh for the feedback

I think maybe part of the problem is that I’m much more aggressive as scum in general, especially early. So I guess I was ascribing my own style to jjh rather than thinking about this properly from his perspective as a player who is different from me.

I was in another scumgame that’s now finished at the same time as this one where that’s exactly the strategy I went for (although I didn’t manage to get the lynch through, so I wonder if that was making me feel more like jjh’s confidence was scum. Like I couldn’t imagine town actually being that sure because I never am, and I try not to over exaggerate the confidence in my reads — as both alignments, but more so as town obviously, because then the reads are real

Will also bear in mind your points about general play and site meta, mastina. I think sometimes I struggle to identify if something really is good logic or not tho, and that makes doing that sort of analysis more difficult for me. I guess another thing is to keep trying to get better at identifying good vs bad logic then.

[jjh927]

Menalque, do you think you'd have suspected Eth0s if I'd died and Chemist had claimed to have doctored me

[Menalque]

In hindsight the fact that his power was super fuckin similar to mine should have been an alarm bell
We claimed in our pt and although he said disloyal jailkeeper I was actually thinking in my head all game that it was roleblocker
And it never occurred to me “hmm, two roleblockers for town is kinda weird actually”

I don't know why Gamma didn't just call ethos's role an Alien because combined roleblocker/rolestopper is an existing role, Alien, which has been around onsite since before I joined (it predates 2008), and which has been Normalized as a whitelisted role.

Calling it combined makes it fit in with all those modifiers

I could see it plausibly powering up to separate roleblocking and rolestopping

Also I hate how it is called that
Like how does roleblock + rolestop = "IT WAS ALIENS"

[mastina]

Also I hate how it is called that
Like how does roleblock + rolestop = "IT WAS ALIENS"

Alien = abduction.
When you're abducted, you're out of town--you can't be targeted.
When you're abducted, you're being sedated, restrained, whatever--you can't act.

This role has existed with that name and that function since like...I dunno. 2006 maybe? It's a REALLY old role which never stopped existing.

[Menalque]

Menalque, do you think you'd have suspected Eth0s if I'd died and Chemist had claimed to have doctored me

I think so, just from you town flipping and knowing that eth0s was some form of roleblocker

[mastina]

objects of power.

What

I have six objects of power: a mechanical pencil, a mechanical clic-eraser, a 2-liter water bottle, a coat (specifically, a hoodie), a digital watch, and a flashdrive.

I submitted half of them as my picks because all of them are common everyday objects which I just so happen to personally attach the moniker of being objects of power to, for reasons.

[jjh927]

Menalque, do you think you'd have suspected Eth0s if I'd died and Chemist had claimed to have doctored me

I think so, just from you town flipping and knowing that eth0s was some form of roleblocker

He'd have had such a hard D4 to get past between that and having to make up a different target because claiming to have targeted Chemist would have been a straight up scumclaim

[jjh927]

Like, I'm trying to figure out what the plan would be there

But anyone he claimed to have targeted would have been mechanically cleared
Meanwhile, anyone you targeted the night before would be mechanically cleared

[Menalque]

I guess he would claim he targeted chem bc chem was conf!town and he thought chem would be the NK bc of that?

[jjh927]

Jailkeeper is just not a claim solo scum can bring to lylo from that point

Also if he'd claimed to have targeted Elbirn, which is what I would expect, he'd have got caught out at massclaim when people added up the damage

I think he needed to kill you so he could start with a fresh claim there

[Menalque]

And he thought mastina would be on you?

[Menalque]

I think maybe he thought he could ride out one more day with me before killing me

[jjh927]

I guess he would claim he targeted chem bc chem was conf!town and he thought chem would be the NK bc of that?

He could argue that but it'd be a scumclaim because Chemist had both a roleblock and a doctor, and a jailkeeper would be best used trying to roleblock scum.