Open 809: Charge Me Up! [Over]

[Raya36]

Official Vote Count 3.03

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Elimination

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to eliminate someone.

DkKoba

(3): NDMath, Andante, Robert M Hunter

NDMath

(2): MathBlade, DkKoba,

Not Voting

(4): Flea the Magician, Yessiree, Save the Dragons, VFP

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-05-13 22:30:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[Robert M Hunter]

I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.

[Save The Dragons]

there you go

[Robert M Hunter]

I am honored and surprised that he chose me.

[yessiree]

my current understanding is that if there is a redirector and it redirected flow with someone else, NDmath would be watching the redirected target, but the night kill would still hit flow since it cannot be redirected

[MathBlade]

I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.

Uh huh.
Sure you did.

So ND+Robert or Koba+Robert goes up to level 11 and A was likely being just antitown and bad.

[MathBlade]

my current understanding is that if there is a redirector and it redirected flow with someone else, NDmath would be watching the redirected target, but the night kill would still hit flow since it cannot be redirected

If the redirector targeted ND this would be true.
However I don’t find that viable.
A redirector on flow would redirect Flow’s action of FN.

It’s still a 1v1

And pretty sure whichever way this goes I want Robert tomorrow.
I don’t see any world where flow picks Robert.

[MathBlade]

I am honored and surprised that he chose me.

This reads fake as duck.

[yessiree]

my current understanding is that if there is a redirector and it redirected flow with someone else, NDmath would be watching the redirected target, but the night kill would still hit flow since it cannot be redirected

If the redirector targeted ND this would be true.
However I don’t find that viable.
A redirector on flow would redirect Flow’s action of FN.

It’s still a 1v1

And pretty sure whichever way this goes I want Robert tomorrow.
I don’t see any world where flow picks Robert.

The wording from wiki is this regarding redirector
"Every Night Action performed on the first player you choose will be performed on the second player you choose"

It's the night actions performed ON the players that are swapped, not the players performing night actions that are swapped. So had the redirector swapped flow with someone else, it wouldn't be influencing flow's own night actions but rather the night actions performed on flow.

Does this make sense?

[DkKoba]

I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.

Uh huh.
Sure you did.

So ND+Robert or Koba+Robert goes up to level 11 and A was likely being just antitown and bad.

I'm here like .. yes please keep tying robert to the PoE LMAO.

Thing is with all the craziness uh it could be that scum have a redirector and andante is scum here - they have played super weird but thats only if robert were to flip town here. Like the crazy dumb gambit stuff feels like a last stand like scum felt screwed bc ndmath flips redirector or something ?

[DkKoba]

It makes sense for scum to want redirector - dont wanna get into discussion of choice stage just stating how juicy redirector is as an ability.

[DkKoba]

I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.

Were there any mod errors this game? @raya

[DkKoba]

thinking out loud here

the watcher claim by scum!ND seems dangerous because if there's a(nother) watcher they'd be on flow, they'd be able to say they didn't see ND on flow thus proving ND a liar pretty quick. that makes me think scum or town, ND is a watcher and probably watched flow last night.

if scum have a redirector and used it on flow to gain his message, then it's ND as a watcher so the other scum would be a redirector. i'm having trouble seeing them not just redirecting to scum and letting flow take heat for the message.

they'd have to know not_mafia was a desparado though to redirect his target from Andante to some one else. that seems rather unlikely, and it seems unlikely that N_M killed desparado'd someone else on purpose, so i think Andante is pretty safe for me.

i don't find the scum redirector theory very likely at this juncture

not mafia was 3 shot btw - just a thought.

[DkKoba]

me, dangerously standing close to the edge of being modkilled

[MathBlade]

my current understanding is that if there is a redirector and it redirected flow with someone else, NDmath would be watching the redirected target, but the night kill would still hit flow since it cannot be redirected

If the redirector targeted ND this would be true.
However I don’t find that viable.
A redirector on flow would redirect Flow’s action of FN.

It’s still a 1v1

And pretty sure whichever way this goes I want Robert tomorrow.
I don’t see any world where flow picks Robert.

The wording from wiki is this regarding redirector
"Every Night Action performed on the first player you choose will be performed on the second player you choose"

It's the night actions performed ON the players that are swapped, not the players performing night actions that are swapped. So had the redirector swapped flow with someone else, it wouldn't be influencing flow's own night actions but rather the night actions performed on flow.

Does this make sense?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Redirector

Not sure what wiki you’re looking at yes. Might help if you link it. Below is the first paragraph.

A Redirector is a role that causes all actions taken on a particular Night by a specific player to target a specific second player instead of whatever their original target was.

By a specific player flow >> to another player X.

So yeah your interpretation requires something else unless redirector is not normal.
Let me check the open setup and if it has a different definition and if it does it would need to be changed for future setups.

[DkKoba]

@ndmath waiting on the quotes where i just "omgus robert" like you are claiming i am
Also that line is a slip - ill explain when i get home but your progression today has now slipped into Obvious Scum range.

[MathBlade]

thinking out loud here

the watcher claim by scum!ND seems dangerous because if there's a(nother) watcher they'd be on flow, they'd be able to say they didn't see ND on flow thus proving ND a liar pretty quick. that makes me think scum or town, ND is a watcher and probably watched flow last night.

if scum have a redirector and used it on flow to gain his message, then it's ND as a watcher so the other scum would be a redirector. i'm having trouble seeing them not just redirecting to scum and letting flow take heat for the message.

they'd have to know not_mafia was a desparado though to redirect his target from Andante to some one else. that seems rather unlikely, and it seems unlikely that N_M killed desparado'd someone else on purpose, so i think Andante is pretty safe for me.

i don't find the scum redirector theory very likely at this juncture

not mafia was 3 shot btw - just a thought.

I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.

Were there any mod errors this game? @raya

Raya can’t answer this as it would confirm or deny mechanics. Much as I would love them too.

[DkKoba]

thinking out loud here

the watcher claim by scum!ND seems dangerous because if there's a(nother) watcher they'd be on flow, they'd be able to say they didn't see ND on flow thus proving ND a liar pretty quick. that makes me think scum or town, ND is a watcher and probably watched flow last night.

if scum have a redirector and used it on flow to gain his message, then it's ND as a watcher so the other scum would be a redirector. i'm having trouble seeing them not just redirecting to scum and letting flow take heat for the message.

they'd have to know not_mafia was a desparado though to redirect his target from Andante to some one else. that seems rather unlikely, and it seems unlikely that N_M killed desparado'd someone else on purpose, so i think Andante is pretty safe for me.

i don't find the scum redirector theory very likely at this juncture

not mafia was 3 shot btw - just a thought.

I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.

Were there any mod errors this game? @raya

Raya can’t answer this as it would confirm or deny mechanics. Much as I would love them too.

I mean eh

[DkKoba]

Still dont believe them.

nd redirector flip i would reexamine andante 1000%

[DkKoba]

fwiw its probably just ndmath and Robert but id still like to make sure all avenues are explored and eliminated if impossible.

[MathBlade]

Congratulations, now you are a X-Shot Redirector.
Your abilities:

At X Night(s) of your choice you may target two players. Every Night Action performed on the first player you choose will be performed on the second player you choose; as if they had been targeted on them originally. Neither of your targets nor anyone who performed any Night Actions on your first target will be informed about the redirection. If your redirection fails, you will not be informed about it. You can not redirect Nightkills.

^^ so it looks like this redirector is not normal wow that’s what I get for being old.

I will make a note to ask the mods to change it post game.

This changes like my entire theory.

[yessiree]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Charge_Me_Up!

im looking at the wiki for this setup specifically

[MathBlade]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Charge_Me_Up!

im looking at the wiki for this setup specifically

I will bring that up with the mods post game. Ideally Opens should be using the rules as the normal role or called a new name. That’s interesting.

[MathBlade]

For now yay Math was bad at setup shit.

Bad math.

Thanks yes for pointing it out

[MathBlade]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Charge_Me_Up!

im looking at the wiki for this setup specifically

To be clear the wiki interpretation would win here.
So now that that’s straight.

Let’s probably elim Koba who flips town.
Then Andraste shoots ND or it’s a scum claim
Then we elim ND/Andraste

Or Koba is scum and this is literally all spew and go back to sorting if ND is genuine or if this is a gambit or wth happened.