Mafiascum.net

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5156192

Aight, so I really don't feel this GG post in particular ^. The whole 'oh BY THE WAY guys, I just happen to be taking notes!' feels really forced. I don't see why he cares to share whats in his QT when he can just say his thoughts in thread if he wants us to hear them.

And he apparently also feels that way because he goes out of his way to cite SC asking him to and lightly speculate on why SC would want him to do it. That is entirely irrelevant and it just feels like an unnecessary justification for just holding some select 'thoughts' back in the QT to reveal later. And its impoossible to know if GG even did write those things at those times, so _shrug_.

He's using the QT posts to 'prove' hes town because hes still taking pro-town notes without telling us

In post 2381, Grimgroove wrote:You could of course think I'm trolling the already dead StrangerCoug, but that's basically the same as saying you think I'm an asshole.

And as if he weren't posting this as a way of saying 'look how town I am', he masks it by implying that the only possible motivation he would have for keeping the QT as scum is to 'troll SC' and definitely not post its contents later for towncred. It just feels totally awkward that hes throwing this at us with no real stated point and just kind of expects us to connect the dots.

Also the talk about Enomis is crap. A 'mysterious wind' is telling us that Enomis is scum That wind is me and you can find my CASE and POINTS on Enomis scattered around my ISO. In case you want to actually address the Enomis pressure formally instead of beating around the bush.

Hey AP

Hey speaking of Enomis where has he been? I feel like I haven't seen him in two day phases.

I think hes only actually voted once the entire game.

Everything else is forgettable posts like:

In post 1983, enomis wrote:

In post 1883, qwints wrote:HEY ENOMIS,

Care to explain why you have 1 (ONE) vote this game?

Please rank the other 3 people that can be lynched today besides yourself.

Hmmm... Dunnoe.

Disappointment. He was such a nice town read.

Majiffy wrote:So we don't wake daddy.

OMG I had that game

I never did but I remember the commercial fairly vividly.

Also some of the classic Hungry Hungry Hippos commercials.

Don't know what else I can say to all of this. Double standards all around me, Wisdom is getting AP-townpoints for simply rephrasing something I said only two posts earlier. Feels like I'm being bullied. Half of what I'm saying is simply ignored (qwints' "case"-post objectively sucks yet nobody sees why, my vote remains on him, hopefully as a reminder but I won't even count on that), the other half is purposely (so it feels) put in a bad light.

Whatever, Elyse can call me the weakest link as long as she wants, but whoever is town and part of my lynch, is the real weak link in my eyes. I can see when a lynch becauses inevitable and this is it, you've all convinced each other well enough in order not to feel bad about my lynch afterwards, even when I flip town. You'll just blame it on me, but I won't accept that. I'll grant you my reads have not been very helpful, but fuck if I haven't tried to convince you all I'm town. Transparent posting and thoughtprocesses, and a QT to boot. I feel like I've given you everything I could.

Yes, I'm using my QT for towncred. Everyone is trying to use something for towncred.... More people should actually be doing that. More obvtown would make this game a whole lot easier. But as opposed to Amrun I wasn't trying to get it over stuff I wasn't even part of (yes I know Amrun was town in the end, but as opposed to me, she had herself to blame for that lynch).
But towncred wasn't the reason why I made the QT. You attributing scummy reasons to it is, well, mindblowing. StrangerCoug confirmed him asking me to post my thoughts ffs. I would have had to be making up things to say to myself for days on end, trolling StrangerCoug in the process, just to use this as an argument later on. Doesn't any of you see how deranged that is?

Or I just made up that post on the spot, recalling every little intricate suspicion I had at the time. You won't believe me probably anyway, but I had genuinely forgotten I ever had such a strong scumread on Wisdom.

And yes, I expect you to connect the dots. The fact that you don't illustrates the nature of this town's play. Lazy.
If I feel stupid for anything, it's for putting so much time in this game.

The weakest link was a tv show and whenever someone was voted off the host would say "You the weakest link. Goodbye." I didn't mean it to be offensive.

Here's the thing about Grim's "I kept a diary therefore I'm town" argument - the only downside to him doing that as scum is more work. There's no mechanism for verifying his QT, and no downside to him redacting or editing later to avoid any scumslips he might have made contemporaneously.

Meanwhile, he STILL hasn't explained why he didn't revote NS in 1146. Seriously, look at grim and NS's posts together. NS posts NOTHING after Grim says "I believe sticking with NS for now is better." but Grim seemingly forgets all about pressuring NS/lynching the lurker until his final L-1 vote when NS was the only option.

To further build upon this case, let's look at how Grim has explained this behavior:

In post 1748, Grimgroove wrote: NS was indeed a null-read. I really don't see how this comes as a surprise, given he had only posted 11 times.

But I digress.
So NS was null. Yes, I thought I saw some townishness in his last post, where he said he really had no idea who to call scum anymore and how he was at a complete loss. To me this sounded honest. It gave him townpoints. It didn't make him town. One post like that obviously does not make you town.
I also never called him scum. When removing my vote from Wisdom I said this, in 1239:

I'd feel bad about letting you slide once again in case you do end up being scum, but I'd feel worse

if

you're actual town having put a lot of effort in this game and letting Nobody Special being lurksack lazy scum with 11 posts live on. Somehow doesn't seem fair

Notice the word in bold.
This choice for moving my vote was me simply being pragmatic about things.

Both were equally possibly scum in my eyes at that point, but given Wisdom's activity you'd know there will be further chances to read him and catch him.
Like many correctly said, what Nobody Secpail had given us at that point, was probably all that he was going to give us even if we had kept him alive.

But this is inconsistent with

In post 1135, Grimgroove wrote:I believe sticking with NS for now is better.

which comes AFTER NS's last post and doesn't match Grim's QT thoughts posted in 2381.

Later he describes NS as:

In post 2121, Grimgroove wrote: Nobody Special was a nullread, a complete shot in the dark. His inactivity killed him as far as I'm concerned, but when lynching an inactive I think it's fairly natural to alrzady look ahead towards more rewarding lynches for reasons that are more pinpointable.

Which is fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't match his earlier post saying that some of NS's behavior was townie. And it doesn't explain why he took the pressure off NS without revoting him.

And that is how grim rebunked this case "500 times already". Grim knows he's caught, and he's trying to deflect by saying it's an old case, by complaining about the way I'm making the case, by doing everything but explain why his behavior exactly matches a distancing scum who's afraid to bus until the outcome is inevitable.

Let's not forget that grim and NS pushed the SC wagon over the top when grim was the closest alternative, and that grim insisted on the Amrun lynch, which although a sensible choice, allowed enomis to escape further pressure. (Though remind me not to forget AP's hammers on NS and Amrun, AP's reaction to the reaction test feels less obv-town the more I re-read, and I get the feeling that he's buddying in a way that bothers me given his meta. And considering that Majiffy-molly is a plausible combination, this Elyse wagon really stinks.)

tl;dr

Grim, why didn't you revote NS in 1146?

I didn't give it that much thought at the time, so now making me attribute in-depth reasons to that move is pretty senseless.

The reason why I didn't vote NS in the post you're referring to is probably because somewhere I knew a pressure-vote on someone that had posted around ten times at a point in a topic where there were more than 1000 posts wasn't going to do much. Given my earlier disposition to vote him over inactivity my point was clear.

But don't forget that was all we had on him, his inactivty, so excuse me for pursuing leads that you could do something with first before essentially going for the PoE-lynch. He still might as well have been inactive town. If you are who you claim to be, you should know this well enough considering you then replaced into such a slot.
In order for PoE's you need information about the other players first.

And exactly 1 post of NS gave me some townvibes. That's it. He'd have to have been a very poor player if he didn't manage to make at least one of those.
But the way you're portraying this as me trying to provoke a universal townread on him by saying that, hoping he wouldn't get lynched, is just stretching things.

And I did rebuke the case. You don't have a case, now that I see it. You just nitpick on one small inconsistency. But like I have said time and again, my inconsistencies are so noticeable because I write down pretty much everything I think, back then even more so than now. A beginner's mistake of mine, because scum can easily find two posts of mine that contradict each other, just quote those posts without the evolution that has taken place between them, and call me scummy over it. Easy peasy. And that's what you're doing now. I'm the easiest target for a mislynch, and you're lazy scum taking advantage of it. I tried to avoid this, in vain, by posting my QT thoughts, but to no avail. Where I thought it would result in an obvtown read on me, people have been ridiculously paranoid about me making that up. I guess paranoia comes with the game, but I can't help to think it's been fueled by scum.

How about you replying to points I made against you?
In your last posts you've basically just tunneled on me over a case that is not a case, and have not adressed anything else.

Also a little heads-up, also :
Starting from Tuesday I'll be V/LA. Going on a trip to Egypt until Thursday the 8th. I'll probably have internet access there, but probably will only be able to drag myself here two or three times during that time.
I don't want to be replaced, but I would like it that if you have questions for me and arguments against me, you make them preferably before Tuesday so I can at least adress them in a timely fashion that doesn't slow down the topic. I don't want to get lynched over suddenly flaking.
Then again, with 400 posts of mine to work with, something tells me you should have enough content to make a decent decision.

My response to the points Grim just made against me.

In post 2422, Grimgroove wrote: But qwints is clearly not an idiot.

He's scum.

Thank you.

No, I'm town. You're scum.

In post 2421, Grimgroove wrote: qwints is even worse [about being opportunistic than Elyse]. Sneaky bastard.

I left the Amrun wagon for the enomis wagon. I've defended Elyse today despite it favoring my self-preservation to suspect the people in my lynch pool. Funny story, I actually had to help my mom find her marriage license once, so I can confirm she was legally married two years before I was born.

In post 2416, Grimgroove wrote:qwints is not only scummy for [bringing up the NS wagon case](considering you claim to have a scumread on him you should know that), but yes, that "vase" made him scummy. First of all it's not his case, second it ignores anything that I had to say about it, thirdly he claims it comes up natural and without care in a "quick" reply, while this is obviously something pre-prepared, possibly something he even had in some word-document just to copy and paste at a time that is strategically beneficial to him. As in, now. Does that sound like something town would do?

I'm not the first to make the case, Amrun made it. That doesn't make it invalid. Second, what you've had to say about it is inconsistent (which you've just admitted) and weak. Third, as I said above, the case wasn't the quick reply, the responses to your points were as I said in [url="http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5158891]2428[/url].

Grim, you're making a lot of smoke and heat, but you're shining very little light on anything right now.

Yeah, I can't take you on right now. Maybe later, but right now it looks as if you have me beat, so congratulations for that. You're impressively able to paint me off as scum and have succesfully put me on a point where you have obfuscated things in such a way that there's no more way for me to reply to it in any way I can still imagine. The point where I think the only way heat could get back on to you in any way is my flip.

The NS-case is shit, yet you have been able to make it golden. It makes you obvscum in my book, but not in others, simply because you are very thorough, and succesful, in trying to make me look bad. You're a good player. Scum should be happy to have you in their ranks.

You certainly have time for AtE though, Grim.

Yup, takes less time and less energy. Considering all the other stuff is being ignored anyway, I'll admit I can't be bothered to do anything else.

I hope you'll be using your obvtown-status better in the future. Both your and Venmar's vote right after something I considered would obvtown me, broke me. I've given this thing the best I got, but it's not good enough. Scum's got me by the balls and town is too lazy/careless to see it.

The only thing I got possibly left is timestamping my QT-transcript to make connecting the dots easier for lazy town, but I'll have to ask Haschel Cedricsson if this is allowed first.

Hey guys lets lynch Elyse like Majiffy has been saying all day phase.

No vote count right now because I amonmy phone at a bluegrass festival with limited Internet. Replacement for enomis is ongoing.

Sorry about breaking the Moderator Promise.

Oh, did enomis flake?

In post 2468, Majiffy wrote:Hey guys lets lynch Elyse like Majiffy has been saying all day phase.

How about no.

Hey guys, lets lynch Grim so we can end this stupid dead phase where nobody is talking.

asdfgh

When is deadline? Also we need an updated VC.

In post 2471, Venmar wrote:

In post 2468, Majiffy wrote:Hey guys lets lynch Elyse like Majiffy has been saying all day phase.

How about no.

Hey guys, lets lynch Grim so we can end this stupid dead phase where nobody is talking.

Your tone has hardened quite a bit, considering you don't even have an explained scumread on me.