hp [leaves] (2) <-~ Nuwen, Lawrencelot
Albert B. Rampage (1) <-~ q21
AceMarksman (1) <-~ ekiM
ekiM (1) <-~ AceMarksman
Nuwen (1) <-~ hp [leaves]
Not voting (1) <-~ Albert B. Rampage
Deadline wrote:
Deadline wrote:
1. noNuwen wrote:Interesting, we've had three consecutive instances of OMGUS:
AceMarksman wrote:Since my usual RVS fodder isn't here,vote: ekiM. OMGUS.hp [leaves] wrote:Unvote, Vote NuwenAt least one of these votes comes from a town player, so I'd like to pose the following questions to the above voters:Lawrencelot wrote:Lawrancelot is not even in this game.
Vote: hp [leaves]for purposely confusing the town.
1. Do you believe in any absoluteanduniversal scum tells?
2. Do any of the above tells, if existent, carry less or more weight during RVS?
Consider the act of OMGUS voting. The term is commonly used to dispel gravity that a counter-vote has when two voters happen to be making cases against each other. However, we have three instances of pure OMGUS in a very straight line. Genuine OMGUS, I believe, is a very strong tell when it's used in the following situations: 1) Excuse to place a premeditated vote 2) Primary reason for building a counter-case ("He's voting for me because he's scum").
An absolute tell and a universal tell and precisely what that sound like - an absolute tell is an action with zero town motivation (self-hammering is commonly cited). A universal tell can be applied across any meta and is not dampened by circumstance.ekiM wrote:What is an absolute scum tell? What is a universal scum tell?
I think the vast majority of scum tells are useless in RVS. Random votes are like white noise. You can detect a pattern if you try hard enough, but it's not actually telling you anything useful. I'm much happier once the game proper has started.
Nuwen: Is there a reason you asked a theoretical question which is seemingly removed from relevance to the current game (absolute/universal)? Would there be value in discussing theory relating to the set-up?
springlullaby: What do you make of players who lament the lack of activity in a game without actually adding anything new themselves?
Unvote; Vote: Albert B. Rampagefor being the last one to post.
I find this statement kinda naive. How and why do you think the transition from RVS to "proper play" occurs? Votes have a motivationI think the vast majority of scum tells are useless in RVS. Random votes are like white noise. You can detect a pattern if you try hard enough, but it's not actually telling you anything useful. I'm much happier once the game proper has started.
AceMarksman wrote:I believe that I really don't know what direction you're trying to take with this, Newen. What point are you trying to make? Do you think thethreeof us who made the OMGUS votes are scum?
Incognito wrote:Two(2)people will receive the following role:Mafia wrote:
Obviously not.Nuwen wrote:At least one of these votes comes from a town player,
And how are you to say that we aren't doing the same? I'm asking you of your intentions, am I not? Are you to say that is not scum hunting?newen wrote:I'm gleaning information and setting my groundwork for scumhunting. Why aren't all of you doing the same?
I guess I asked because it wasn't, in fact, clear to me what those terms meant. Thanks for explaining.Nuwen wrote:An absolute tell and a universal tell and precisely what that sound like - an absolute tell is an action with zero town motivation (self-hammering is commonly cited). A universal tell can be applied across any meta and is not dampened by circumstance.
I can see the relevance, but I'm not sure I understand why it is an absolute & universal tell. I can see there is no particular reason for a townie to do such a thing, but if it really is a universal & absolute tell then there is no reason for scum to do it either, as it will draw suspicion. And I definitely don't see why it is universal---why can't there exist players who never do it as scum, but will do it as town?Nuwen wrote:Do you now understand the relevance of asking players who committed a universal & absolute tell ("lolol joke omgus is ok in rvs guyz")?
It may well be naive; I am new to the game of Mafia. I don't know how or why a series of arbitrary votes should actually lead to useful leads. I don't think attempted pattern analysis is pure contrivance, but in the white-noise of an RVS, I'm not convinced it's actually that likely to lead to credible leads. It does spark discussion, but I've yet to see evidence that these first scum tells gleaned from RVS are more accurate than random chance.Nuwen wrote:I find this statement kinda naive. How and why do you think the transition from RVS to "proper play" occurs? Votes have a motivationekiM wrote:I think the vast majority of scum tells are useless in RVS. Random votes are like white noise. You can detect a pattern if you try hard enough, but it's not actually telling you anything useful. I'm much happier once the game proper has started.(or a patent lack thereof)right out of the gate. A pattern will develop. Do you believe that pattern analysis seeks only to contrive links where there are none?
Make remarks now... the theory discussion is getting us nowhere. if you have insightful remarks on the game they would be much more useful than deciding what is or isn't a universal/absolute scumtell.springlullaby wrote:Well, trying to push through the RSV is not, but the way you are doing it is, kinda, and I've got a couple of remarks. But you know what, I'll let you do your thing first. And comment afterwards.Nuwen wrote:I'd much rather gather everyone's ideas on theory than entertain the usual RVS rigmarole.springlullaby wrote:Nuwen, your 17 comes off as weird. What do you mean by it?
Weird?
As long as nothing weird happens (only random votes), it relieves culpability from all actions, but not totally. Random votes can still mean something, I think they usually just mean too little to provide any results, because it's, you know, random.Nuwen wrote:Do you believe RVS relieves culpability from all actions, or just OMGUS?Lawrencelot wrote: Those 3 examples aren't really omgus because a) it's the random voting stage
No. I want to observe this.q21 wrote:Make remarks now... the theory discussion is getting us nowhere. if you have insightful remarks on the game they would be much more useful than deciding what is or isn't a universal/absolute scumtell.springlullaby wrote:Well, trying to push through the RSV is not, but the way you are doing it is, kinda, and I've got a couple of remarks. But you know what, I'll let you do your thing first. And comment afterwards.Nuwen wrote:I'd much rather gather everyone's ideas on theory than entertain the usual RVS rigmarole.springlullaby wrote:Nuwen, your 17 comes off as weird. What do you mean by it?
Weird?
An ellipse is three dots like: ...law wrote:What does 'using ellipses' mean?
Really - discussing theory is always better that RVS? The game staying in RVS would, eventually, achieve a lynch. It would be a bad lynch, most likely, but it would be a lynch. Theory discussion, on the other hand will eventually achieve... nothing.Lawrencelot wrote:What does 'using ellipses' mean?
And discussing theory is always better than staying in the RVS q21, I'd call anyone who opposes it scum sooner than anyone who uses it, unless it distracts anyone from scumhunting, which won't really happen in the RVS.
Yes. Out of RVS and into another equally, if not more, useless stage.AceMarksman wrote:I'm not liking q21's most recent posts. I think Newen's theory discussion was a way to move us out of the RVS.
That's twice you've called microscopic meta useless.q21 wrote: Yes. Out of RVS and into another equally, if not more, useless stage.