I read a little bit of Tree Stump 1 a while back, and iirc this is exactly it. Essentially it gives us the dual advantage of scum not getting a nk until we lynch scum and townies still being able to contribute after lynch.Sudo_Nym wrote:I don't either, but I assume the stump before lynch is so that we can keep talking and lynch someone else without giving scum a NK, right? Seems pretty obvious, but I've learned not to take stuff for granted, especially in odder setups.
Mini 876 - Tree Stump II [Day None] (Abandoned)
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(10:50:24 PM) xcaykex: GODDAMNIT I DONT WANNA GET RID OF MY TENTACLE RAPE PORN
Ribbit.
Ribbit.
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Chinaman wrote:I'm a lumberjack and I'm O.K., I sleep all night and I work all day....
Chinaman wrote:kinda unfair to the lumberjacks eh?
vote chinaman
detah to all lumberjack!
nb: are you really chinesse?
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If you pick a fight with one Goblin, be ready to fight them all.
------ESL------
Finish game :
Mini 838: Jeopardy in Jefferson -over- Town - lose
Mini 839 -- Mafia Invasion! -over- scum win
Mini 840. Tajo's I love you Mafia -over- scum - win
StrangerCoug's Worst Nightmare: D├â┬®j├â┬á Bastard -over- Town - win
------ESL------
Finish game :
Mini 838: Jeopardy in Jefferson -over- Town - lose
Mini 839 -- Mafia Invasion! -over- scum win
Mini 840. Tajo's I love you Mafia -over- scum - win
StrangerCoug's Worst Nightmare: D├â┬®j├â┬á Bastard -over- Town - win
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vote chinaman
If the quotes Tjoe has mean anything, you're either a lumberjack or a crossdresser. I'm not sure I'm comfortable either way...
One time, back in 'nam, Sudo was set upon by an entire squadron of charlies. He challenged them all to a game of Pictionary, which he won resoundingly. The charlies were forced to not only surrender the skirmish, but also their world-famous chili recipe, which Sudo sold to Texas for a hefty profit. Sudo is a master of diplomacy.
Wow, 3 votes already! I did good!
First off, to the 3 of you who voted for me, please answer...
A: Did you know that the first quote is from a Monty Python skit/song
and
B: Do you disagree with the statement I made about p25 as in do you think it IS perfectly balanced for trees and lumberjacks?
First off, to the 3 of you who voted for me, please answer...
A: Did you know that the first quote is from a Monty Python skit/song
and
B: Do you disagree with the statement I made about p25 as in do you think it IS perfectly balanced for trees and lumberjacks?
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So...are you for good, or for AWESOME!?
Mafia Scum History:
Townie - 4-2
Scum - 0-0
Serial Killer - 1-0
Mafia Scum History:
Townie - 4-2
Scum - 0-0
Serial Killer - 1-0
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I think it's useful, in a kinda 'what not to do' way. Also to see how the mechanics affect things. Also, how Jdodge and Scotmany spent their whole time as stumps howling for my stumping because i pressed for theirs.Cobalt wrote:I read tree stump 1. Kinda dull. Bunch of VIs who got stumped. I dunno if it was really required reading.
I was gonna vote Chinaman for an entirely pointless post, but then flipping the page I see he has three already, and has posted some kinda rebuttal.
a) Presumably, since the PMs reference the lumberjack song, and the stumping formulation mirrors it, they did. More to the point: Why do you feel the need to make a completely irrelevant post?Chinaman wrote:Wow, 3 votes already! I did good!
First off, to the 3 of you who voted for me, please answer...
A: Did you know that the first quote is from a Monty Python skit/song
and
B: Do you disagree with the statement I made about p25 as in do you think it IS perfectly balanced for trees and lumberjacks?
b) This game is effectively halfway between a vanilla 9:3 and a nightless 9:3. Vanilla 9:3 is obviously hugely scum-favouring. Nightless 9:3, town needs three scum lynches, scum need 6, 7, or 8, mislynches- Depending on the number of scum who die. That's balanced, probably a little town-favouring.
Here, the total number of scum town need to lynch is the same, the number of town the scum need to get killed is the same as the nightless one, minus one for every dead scum because they get a nightkill. That's six mislynches, however many scum die.
Town wins if it lynches correctly more than one-third of the time- ie, have a ratio better than one dead scum for every two dead town. The scum proportion is 25%. Assuming random lynches, the town usually loses. The town has no power roles. So, no, the setup is actually scum-favouring.
Set against that is the possibility that the stumps help the town. Well, last time, they didn't until Glork replaced in. SensFan has changed the rules for this one to disallow replacement of flaked stumps and allow continuous scumtalk, both of which are advantageous to the scum (ie, he's taken a scum-favouring setup and made it more scum-favouring. Ack, I love a challenge).
c) Can you explain why a town player would want to bitch about a game being unfair to the scum?
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While I agree with most of your post, there's something about this that bothers me. It's not really a scum-favoring game. It's not halfway to nightless mafia; it practically is nightless mafia. It would seem the proper strategy is to stump yourself instead of letting yourself be hammered if you're town. I haven't worked out the math on it yet, so I'm not too up in arms, but I have trouble believing the setup can be truly scum favoring.Fonz wrote: b) This game is effectively halfway between a vanilla 9:3 and a nightless 9:3. Vanilla 9:3 is obviously hugely scum-favouring. Nightless 9:3, town needs three scum lynches, scum need 6, 7, or 8, mislynches- Depending on the number of scum who die. That's balanced, probably a little town-favouring.
Here, the total number of scum town need to lynch is the same, the number of town the scum need to get killed is the same as the nightless one, minus one for every dead scum because they get a nightkill. That's six mislynches, however many scum die.
Town wins if it lynches correctly more than one-third of the time- ie, have a ratio better than one dead scum for every two dead town. The scum proportion is 25%. Assuming random lynches, the town usually loses. The town has no power roles. So, no, the setup is actually scum-favouring.
Set against that is the possibility that the stumps help the town. Well, last time, they didn't until Glork replaced in. SensFan has changed the rules for this one to disallow replacement of flaked stumps and allow continuous scumtalk, both of which are advantageous to the scum (ie, he's taken a scum-favouring setup and made it more scum-favouring. Ack, I love a challenge).
One time, back in 'nam, Sudo was set upon by an entire squadron of charlies. He challenged them all to a game of Pictionary, which he won resoundingly. The charlies were forced to not only surrender the skirmish, but also their world-famous chili recipe, which Sudo sold to Texas for a hefty profit. Sudo is a master of diplomacy.
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Er.... OF COURSE the correct strategy for town players is to stump when lynch is otherwise inevitable. How on earth can you get anything else from that post? That's the underlying assumption behind the whole thing!
Therefore, the scum will only get to kill up to twice, when one of their number is lynched. However, that the scum do get to kill immediately after one of their own is lynched is an advantage compared to actual nightless mafia. Hence, as I say the scum need six town lynches and the town need three scum lynches.
Therefore, the scum will only get to kill up to twice, when one of their number is lynched. However, that the scum do get to kill immediately after one of their own is lynched is an advantage compared to actual nightless mafia. Hence, as I say the scum need six town lynches and the town need three scum lynches.
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To be completely fair, your math would likely have made more sense if I wasn't trying to figure it out after staying awake for 38 hours.The Fonz wrote:Er.... OF COURSE the correct strategy for town players is to stump when lynch is otherwise inevitable. How on earth can you get anything else from that post? That's the underlying assumption behind the whole thing!
Therefore, the scum will only get to kill up to twice, when one of their number is lynched. However, that the scum do get to kill immediately after one of their own is lynched is an advantage compared to actual nightless mafia. Hence, as I say the scum need six town lynches and the town need three scum lynches.
One time, back in 'nam, Sudo was set upon by an entire squadron of charlies. He challenged them all to a game of Pictionary, which he won resoundingly. The charlies were forced to not only surrender the skirmish, but also their world-famous chili recipe, which Sudo sold to Texas for a hefty profit. Sudo is a master of diplomacy.
yesChinaman wrote:Wow, 3 votes already! I did good!
First off, to the 3 of you who voted for me, please answer...
A: Did you know that the first quote is from a Monty Python skit/song
no
and
B: Do you disagree with the statement I made about p25 as in do you think it IS perfectly balanced for trees and lumberjacks?
I think the game seems balanced enough though.
Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi
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Mmmkay. Yeah, that's not easy.
Basically, it comes down to a tradeoff of lynches vs power roles. The town can't ever confirm anyone- that helps the scum a ton. However, the town gets twice as many 'lynches' to play with as in a normal 9-3. Doubling the length of the day game makes it much harder for scum to avoid connecting themselves to one another, which will hopefully make the town able to lynch with better than random odds. Two town VIs imploding, for instance, doesn't put you straight into lylo.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled edition of 'What the hell is Chinaman trying to pull here?'
Basically, it comes down to a tradeoff of lynches vs power roles. The town can't ever confirm anyone- that helps the scum a ton. However, the town gets twice as many 'lynches' to play with as in a normal 9-3. Doubling the length of the day game makes it much harder for scum to avoid connecting themselves to one another, which will hopefully make the town able to lynch with better than random odds. Two town VIs imploding, for instance, doesn't put you straight into lylo.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled edition of 'What the hell is Chinaman trying to pull here?'
- sam.samhorn
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sam.samhorn
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Are you usually such a jokester, saberwolf?saberwolf wrote:vote: sensfan
good ol' mod BW
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk.
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you obv haven't played enough games with me.Sanjay wrote:Are you usually such a jokester, saberwolf?saberwolf wrote:vote: sensfan
good ol' mod BW
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saberwolf XIX (2:53:59 AM): what do you know about bigger and better? >.>
drench394 (2:54:04 AM): um
drench394 (2:54:13 AM): i've been going through puberty for the better part of a year now
The Last Post Bandit strikes again!
drench394 (2:54:04 AM): um
drench394 (2:54:13 AM): i've been going through puberty for the better part of a year now
The Last Post Bandit strikes again!
So p27 and p28 have a joking feel to them as they are seemingly RVS banter still.
p29 by Empking peaked some interest though. Empking, care to explain your vote? As for now it looks like a BW vote with zero explanation.
The Fonz p31: Really? You are pointing at me for irrelevant posts in RVS? Are you serious? If so, why did you decide to pick up on my irrelevant post vs. anyone else's? To answer your question, it's RVS and I was having fun with it.
As for your explanation of balance, I'm still of the opinion the game is slightly in favor of the trees. I will add here though, that I'm not exactly unhappy about that. I will say though that I prefer a challenge vs. a win that had me favored to begin with. It's like when the Colts beat the Patriots vs when the Colts beat the Raiders. I'm happier about the win over the Pats since it's more of a challenge. I can see your math though and it does make it seem a bit more balanced than I had originally thought.
As for the last part, please point out where I was "bitching" about the balance. I think this is a little extreme and a bit of a stretch. It also paints me in a more negative light than what really occurred. Is there a reason you would want to exaggerate the facts in order to make me look scummy? But again, to answer as to why I made the comment, I believe I address that in the paragraph above this one.
p29 by Empking peaked some interest though. Empking, care to explain your vote? As for now it looks like a BW vote with zero explanation.
The Fonz p31: Really? You are pointing at me for irrelevant posts in RVS? Are you serious? If so, why did you decide to pick up on my irrelevant post vs. anyone else's? To answer your question, it's RVS and I was having fun with it.
As for your explanation of balance, I'm still of the opinion the game is slightly in favor of the trees. I will add here though, that I'm not exactly unhappy about that. I will say though that I prefer a challenge vs. a win that had me favored to begin with. It's like when the Colts beat the Patriots vs when the Colts beat the Raiders. I'm happier about the win over the Pats since it's more of a challenge. I can see your math though and it does make it seem a bit more balanced than I had originally thought.
As for the last part, please point out where I was "bitching" about the balance. I think this is a little extreme and a bit of a stretch. It also paints me in a more negative light than what really occurred. Is there a reason you would want to exaggerate the facts in order to make me look scummy? But again, to answer as to why I made the comment, I believe I address that in the paragraph above this one.
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So...are you for good, or for AWESOME!?
Mafia Scum History:
Townie - 4-2
Scum - 0-0
Serial Killer - 1-0
Mafia Scum History:
Townie - 4-2
Scum - 0-0
Serial Killer - 1-0
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who is this referenced to?Sanjay wrote:You have fun fake-claiming scum?
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saberwolf XIX (2:53:59 AM): what do you know about bigger and better? >.>
drench394 (2:54:04 AM): um
drench394 (2:54:13 AM): i've been going through puberty for the better part of a year now
The Last Post Bandit strikes again!
drench394 (2:54:04 AM): um
drench394 (2:54:13 AM): i've been going through puberty for the better part of a year now
The Last Post Bandit strikes again!
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Chinaman for this:
Could I see him believing that? Yes. But I still don't like it.
The scumclaim itself is kind of a null tell to me. But playing it off as just having fun is what I really have a problem with.
Obviously, it's not a relatively unserious scumclaim. But it is a scumclaim. Chinaman is saying he was just having fun with the random voting stage, and that seems a little fishy to me. It is a little hard to believe that Chinaman didn't realize that saying he was a lumberjack was a little fishy, Monty Python song or no.Chinaman wrote:I'm a lumberjack and I'm O.K., I sleep all night and I work all day....
Could I see him believing that? Yes. But I still don't like it.
The scumclaim itself is kind of a null tell to me. But playing it off as just having fun is what I really have a problem with.
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk.