Mini 170 - Time Travel Mafia, Game Over!

[Mgm]

What happened to the regular scum-hunting tactics of discussion, lurker-voting and analysis? Sure, mathcam said we're on a deadline, but he also said it could be extended. It's hardly a good reason to bandwagon me.

Maybe we should use the method of the previous time travel mini and vote on whether we'd like to end the day?

As for armlx, I'm all for reviving him. The more confirmed townies the better. Still, I think we should look for a method to revive power roles that somehow excludes scum. Any ideas?

[Crola]

What happened to the regular scum-hunting tactics of discussion, lurker-voting and analysis? Sure, mathcam said we're on a deadline, but he also said it could be extended. It's hardly a good reason to bandwagon me.

Maybe we should use the method of the previous time travel mini and vote on whether we'd like to end the day?

As for armlx, I'm all for reviving him. The more confirmed townies the better. Still, I think we should look for a method to revive power roles that somehow excludes scum. Any ideas?

I wish we could, but from what other people are saying, we may not be able to filet the scum out when reviving power roles. As of now, I all for reviving armlx and any confirmed townies, but unless we know with absolute positivsness (not a word but you know where I'm goin with it) I think it might be dangerous to revive a power role.

Also, another question for mathcam. If someone is modkilled, can they come back to life? Or do they get erased from the timeline or something.

If we can quote PMs with hopes of being revived, that may help . . .
Although, I'm not big on breaking the rules.

[mathcam]

If someone is modkilled, can they come back to life? Or do they get erased from the timeline or something.

Hm, well done in finding a question to which I didn't have a ready answer. I'll play this one by ear depending on the context of the game when the infraction occurs. In the meantime, please don't get modkilled by, for example, revealing your role PM.

Cam

[SubtleTactix]

I think reviving armlx makes perfect sense, mostly for the reasons stated. Reviving a power role later would be nice, but we don't want a doc dying with time fuel left to spend.

--Tactix

[Fuldu]

My point regarding armlx was that I think we should wait and see what information we get from power role deaths before we go ahead with reviving townies. I wouldn't want to be in a position where the importance of a power player was identifiable from the context, but we weren't in a position to revive them because we had revived townies. If there's really no information about non-townie deaths, then townies are the right choice for revival, but we don't know that yet, so I want to hold off on armlx.

[SubtleTactix]

Everything of course depends on how much time fuel is available and how powerful the non-generic roles are. Still, I think armlx-revival is correct.

In regular mafia, **before role claims start coming out,** a doc has only a chance of helping the town each night -- if both the doc and scum target the same person.

Tonight, a doc-type has two basic strategies:

A. Use time fuel to revive armlx on night one
B. Don't use time fuel and just protect a (probably non-confirmed) townie

A. is a much better choice for two reasons. First, it is more likely to have a positive effect than B. Second, A yields a confirmed townie without anyone having to reveal their role. Even if the doc prevents a kill in the B scenario, we don't get a confirmed townie out of the mix for free (under this scenario, the doc could REVEAL and confirm a townie, but we couldn't get the confirmed townie for free, like we can in A).

Waiting might have a bigger payoff, but we have to fight longer odds: The doc might be killed before we successfully deduce a sufficiently powerful role of a dead player.

--Tactix

[NanookTheWolf]

Yeah, but how much fuel do you think that this doc has to revive people? Do you think that he would have enough to be able to attempt it more then once?

[Mgm]

Unvote:NanookTheWolf

Vote: SapphireVerde

for not contributing to the discussion (and of course to offer another target than myself).

[Crola]

Essentially, the way we have to think in this game is thinking as if we have no powers at all. We need to get rid of the mafia by using minimal time fuel. Of course, however, this is not the way we will think. The point I'm making is, it would be amazing if we killed the mafia without having to use our fuel, but that's not happeneing. THe only reason I suggest this is not to have you guys it around doing nothing, but it's for the doctors and stuff. Don't waste your fuel! If we misuse our fuel, it could be catastrophe for the town, but I guess other then that we should have a ball.

[SubtleTactix]

I am a little confused. Before you wrote:

As of now, I all for reviving armlx and any confirmed townies, but unless we know with absolute positivsness (not a word but you know where I'm goin with it) I think it might be dangerous to revive a power role.

But just now you wrote:

The point I'm making is, it would be amazing if we killed the mafia without having to use our fuel, but that's not happeneing. THe only reason I suggest this is not to have you guys it around doing nothing, but it's for the doctors and stuff. Don't waste your fuel! If we misuse our fuel, it could be catastrophe for the town, but I guess other then that we should have a ball.

Can you clarify? Are you suggesting that reviving armlx is a waste of time fuel? Because you seemed in favor of it in your previous post.
I respect your opinion that we shouldn't waste our time travelling abilities, but I don't understand how you feel about reviving armlx as a use of timefuel.
--Tactix

[Crola]

I am a little confused. Before you wrote:

As of now, I all for reviving armlx and any confirmed townies, but unless we know with absolute positivsness (not a word but you know where I'm goin with it) I think it might be dangerous to revive a power role.

But just now you wrote:

The point I'm making is, it would be amazing if we killed the mafia without having to use our fuel, but that's not happeneing. THe only reason I suggest this is not to have you guys it around doing nothing, but it's for the doctors and stuff. Don't waste your fuel! If we misuse our fuel, it could be catastrophe for the town, but I guess other then that we should have a ball.

Can you clarify? Are you suggesting that reviving armlx is a waste of time fuel? Because you seemed in favor of it in your previous post.
I respect your opinion that we shouldn't waste our time travelling abilities, but I don't understand how you feel about reviving armlx as a use of timefuel.
--Tactix

I don't think reviving armlx is a waste of fuel, what I'm saying though is that in the future, docs may have to choose between 2 townies and a power role, it would be a waste to revive all three, the doc will have to choose wisely.

[Mgm]

Likewise, it's smarter to save armlx now instead of later if you want to save fuel.

[Axelrod]

Well I read that other time-travel game, which was interesting. Looks like several of the rules are different in this game, so strategy will obviously be different.

I will agree with Mgm that if Armix is to be revived it should be now, when the fuel cost is less. That means no Doc protection tonight, however, it that right? Only the Doc. can decide whether the expense is worth it.

[Crola]

Well I read that other time-travel game, which was interesting. Looks like several of the rules are different in this game, so strategy will obviously be different.

I will agree with Mgm that if Armix is to be revived it should be now, when the fuel cost is less. That means no Doc protection tonight, however, it that right? Only the Doc. can decide whether the expense is worth it.

Wait, we can buy Timefuel? You said do it now when time fuel costs less. Is this unique your role, is there something I missed, am I just not special?

[mathcam]

Current Official Vote Count:

Mgm (3, SapphireVerde, Crola, Fuldu)
Sapphire (2, Electra, Mgm)
Axelrod (1, Dmi)
Darklight (1, MoS)
Tactix (1, Nanook)

Not Voting: Axelrod, DarkLight140, SubtleTactix

6 to lynch.

Cam

[DarkLight140]

I think he meant that the potential for wasting the fuel by dying with it unused was less, but that's kind of a funny way of putting it.

The thing is, if the doc chooses to revive any townie that dies, and then the mafia pull something nasty, like a kill on a previous night that changes a lynch to kill an additional townie, the doc will be powerless to undo it unless he's got a

really

large amount of fuel- I doubt there are more than one or two time travels available. That concerns me more, frankly, than guessing games with power roles.

[Crola]

Unvote Mgm Vote SaphireVerde

for lurking. she had a total of one post, and that was a random vote. There are a few other lurkers, like Electra, but Saphire has a bandwagon.

Also, this factor hasn't been brought up much, but how many times do you think the mafia can time travel. If they can for more than three days then I'd say we were in a bit of a sticky wicket (I'm not British).

[Mgm]

Mathcam already told us time fuel is limited. So I think it's clear the mafia won't be going back to night one too often like they did in the old games. I doubt they'd be able to travel more than any pro-town power role.

[Electra]

I don't think it's really that important, the whole travelling back to Day 1 for the Mafia thing. In the games I read (the first two, both by CS, I believe), there was no time fuel, the Mafia did that, and the town still managed to win both. (I think.) So I don't know what you're trying to say, Crola.

I like the idea of saving Armix. For one, the doc is going to have more than one unit of time fuel, so in the event Fuldu's case happens, we'll probably be able to save said power role. And of course, remember that Armix's case is probably not going to happen every night, since there probably aren't THAT many townies in this game, so it's lucky that it happens Night 1 when the Doc can easily save him.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Electra, how do you know that doc has more than one unit of fuel? It sounds to me that you are either the doc, or you are scum trying to convince us to tell the doc to revive armix so that they have less fuel(if any) left to save power roles.

I'll

unvote, vote: Electra

, since my last vote was random, anyways...at least this is

something

to go on...

[Electra]

Electra, how do you know that doc has more than one unit of fuel? It sounds to me that you are either the doc, or you are scum trying to convince us to tell the doc to revive armix so that they have less fuel(if any) left to save power roles.

I'll

unvote, vote: Electra

, since my last vote was random, anyways...at least this is

something

to go on...

It doesn't make any sense for the doc to have only one unit of fuel... O.o The emphasis is on the Time Travel dynamic in the game, and the Doc is one of the two roles time travelling is extremely strategic (bad word choice) for (other role is Mafia, of course). All the other games I've seen have balanced unlimited doc travelling with various things, like two killers, or double kills... it just doesn't make sense to limit the TT doc so drastically in a TT game. You think the TT doc only has one unit of timefuel?

[Axelrod]

Wait, we can buy Timefuel? You said do it now when time fuel costs less. Is this unique your role, is there something I missed, am I just not special?

It occurs to me (unfortunately, only now) that those who are "basic townie" roles don't know what Mgm, MOS, Electra and myself are talking about. The townie PM, already posted by math, doesn't explain how time fuel actually works. Therefore, I assume it is only those of us who got "time-traveling" roles who got the time-fuel explanation.

Since the mafia already know this I'll go ahead and explain it. Every day a person travels uses up a "unit" of time fuel. If you go back one day (or forward) it costs one unit. If you travel two days, like from day three back to day one, you use two units. Time-travelling roles have limited amounts of fuel (well mine does, and I assume everyone else's does, based on what math said.) That's why Mgm and myself said it would cost less to save Armix

now

, rather than later.

What this means is that several time-travelling players have just exposed themselves to the Mafia. The Mafia may not know what we can do, but we are definately going to be the targets. So, anyone else who can time-travel PLEASE SHUT UP ABOUT IT. We don't need to tell the Mafia any more than they already know.

[Mgm]

If they're smart the mafia already knew...

Q: Couldn't this game go on for ever?

No. The key component to the time-travel mechanism is time-fuel, of which there is a limited quantity in this game. It is possible, however, in the case that everyone uses up all of their time fuel, that the game will turn in to a regular mini game.

[SapphireVerde]

hi, im back. sowi for not being around i've been busy.

eniwiez, i dont think we should worry about if we should save the townie yet. we should try to find a scum. its up to the doc anyways. and i got a question mathcam, is it only the doc that has a time machine? selected players or all of the town?

[SapphireVerde]

we still got plenty of time left to decide to save Armix, so we could try to solve something else first. oh wait? is there still a deadline? if so, then we dont got time. then im all fro savin him if whoever wants to save him wants to risk it.