292: Mythical Monster Mafia- Game over


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Post Post #25 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:24 am

Post by Astronaut »

Flying Dutchman's second post bothers me a lot more than his first. Not worthy of a vote, though, since I'm not too comfortable with the strategy of lynching anyone speculating in the setup.
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Post Post #26 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:09 pm

Post by EnderX »

Page two votecount:

d_rouge: 3 (Der Hammer, Shiryu, SpeedyKQ)
Flying Dutchman: 3 (d_rouge, Maz Medias, Phoebus)
Phoebus: 1 (Flying Dutchman)
Shiryu: 1 (Osloboditelj)

Not Voting: Astronaut, Alexander, Pug89


11 alive, 6 to lynch.
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Post Post #27 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:56 pm

Post by Pug89 »

I didn't realy find FD's post to be suspicious but d_rouge's vote is based on very weak logic and seems to be made very quickly; especially on someone that already has two votes.
FOS: d_rouge

I don't want to vote yet as that would bring him only two votes from a lynch and I want to see his response before putting him that close to a lynch.
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Post Post #28 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:12 pm

Post by Shiryu »

Personally, I don't see how having just one night killed, as opposed to the usual two I see in most of my mini-games, could be a bad sign. However, I don't really see that as a reason to make such a sudden vote like d_rouge did. I'll stick with my random vote for now, which now has somewhat of a reason behind.
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Post Post #29 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:09 pm

Post by d_rouge »

I don't see why votes and fos are piling up on me. I found FD's post suspicious, that's why I voted him. Since anyway my first vote was a random vote, now I switched to a real vote.

As for the comment attached, it was meant to provoke a reaction.
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Post Post #30 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:00 am

Post by Der Hammer »

Lets get our lynching noose ready. Cmon my fellow heads you know who you are. hisss hisss.
Vote:d_rouge
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Post Post #31 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:03 am

Post by Der Hammer »

Didnt see I had already voted for him. hisss hissss
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Post Post #32 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:20 am

Post by Flying Dutchman »

Unvote: Phoebus


Vote: d_rouge


I fail to see why my post earned a me a vote and suspicion from your side.... Your logic was very weak, and I can't see why you won't admit that.
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Post Post #33 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:43 am

Post by Osloboditelj »

Whoa, it's a bit soon to put four votes on someone, isn't it? The reasoning behind d_rouge's scum tell is nowhere near that strong, I'd say - hyperbole in response to something which is at least a bit scummy is certainly not worth this kind of bandwagon at this stage. I don't like FD's speculation on the number of killing groups much myself (especially given his semi-negative tone), and his very specific suggestions make me even more leery, but that's not that big of a deal either. Still, I'd say FD's wagon is more worthwhile than d-rouge's. However, the comment that bothers me the most is this:
Der Hammer wrote:Lets get our lynching noose ready. Cmon my fellow heads you know who you are. hisss hisss.
Vote:d_rouge
Heavy-handedly breadcrumbing a role which doesn't seem too townlike, plus calling for a lynch at an absurdly early point? Yikes.
Unvote, Vote: Der Hammer.
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Post Post #34 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:48 am

Post by Alexander »

I didn't like Der Hammer's "hisss hisss" as well, but it strikes me as more of a poor play than scummy play; his behavior neither increases nor decreases the chance of him being scum.
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Post Post #35 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:09 pm

Post by Maz Medias »

:roll: Der Hammer, you're beyond stupid...

I get a strong scum vibe from d_rouge as well, after that little debacle.
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Post Post #36 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:13 pm

Post by Der Hammer »

Ok Ill just pop down 2 words everyday as not to annoy anyone else and they both will be in bold.
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Post Post #37 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:13 pm

Post by Maz Medias »

Unvote, Unvote?
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Post Post #38 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:41 pm

Post by Pug89 »

Vote: d_rouge

Your response did not convince me of your innocence. You voted too quickly especially considering the small amount of information available this early in the game.
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Post Post #39 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:43 pm

Post by Alexander »

d_rouge is now 1 vote from lynch - I'm just saying that so nobody will lynch him accidentally... or "accidentally"
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Post Post #40 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:50 pm

Post by Alexander »

Ok, with that out of my system, I can discuss the latest events.

Admittedly, I still very much suspect d_rouge (although not enough to hand him the lynching vote on page 2 :) ), there are other interesting tidbits of info.

- Pug89, you say d_rouge voted too quickly, yet you gave him a 5th vote yourself only 38 posts into the game. Doesn't that dip a little bit into the pot-calling-the-kettle-black territoty?

- d_rouge, you said in post 29 that the comment attached to your vote was meant to provoke reactions... if so, can you please tell us what kind of reactions did you provoke, and what you can make of them?

Well, that's actually all for now... I would appreciate to hear from those 2 people, and also from anyone else.
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Post Post #41 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:23 pm

Post by Shiryu »

Breadcrumbing?

Anyway, yeah, I agree with Alexander in that Der Hammer's post was most likely poor play rather than revealing scuminess.
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Post Post #42 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:53 pm

Post by Phoebus »

I'm with indefinite Limited Access.
If I'm holding up the game, please feel free to replace me. However, I request a 48hr grace period before being prodded/replaced. I should be able to check in at least every other day, if not every day.

Currently...the rouge wagon is *very* quick and I don't like Pug89's tone the last couple of posts. Taken together, they just seem like an excuse to vote rouge anyway.

It also amuses me that there were so many "negative" affective responses to FD's first post but nobody bothered to do too much out of it, except for rouge who's nearly hanging by a noose.
It is acceptable that you do not think it (FD's first vote) bad enough to vote for him but FD could've been pressurised for more explanation as to his post, especially given that so many eyebrows were raised. I haven't found it (the explanation).
Eyewitness testimony is taken as conclusive for the most part because an eye witness may be more attuned to certain environmental occurences than a passer-by after the fact. What that means in mafia is, if scum try and kill someone and their target doesn't die, they're usually in a position to make the kind of statement that Flying Dutchman did, about lack of kills. That or they are doctor, exulting in their success....which is poor play. Also, remember jeepdocscumtell? If you think a person is doc, they're most likely scum.
They are weak tells by themselves but his first post, followed by the specificity of his second post - why would it be the SK that missed? Why not the mafia? Why Mafia blocker, why not a regular one? Why not a regular doc? - there are a lot of ways that could've/should've been said. Bundle that with the quick rouge wagon and statements of "What FD did is scummy but I'm not voting him" and this begins to smell of deflection.
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Post Post #43 (ISO) » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:37 am

Post by SpeedyKQ »

Unvote d_rouge.
He is still suspect, but I don't want him one-from-lynch this soon.

So Pug, do you really think putting him that close to lynch this early in the game is a good idea? Without asking for a claim or anything?
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Post Post #44 (ISO) » Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:35 am

Post by Alexander »

I wrote up a small summary of how the FD and d_rouge wagons developed. Let's see if we can learn something out of it.

9: Shiryu random-votes d_rouge
13: Phoebus joke-votes FD
14: Maz Medias joke-votes FD
15: Der Hammer random-votes d_rouge
---- Here ends the early-game sillyness and the sh*t hits the fan -----
17: FD makes the initial comment about nightkills
18-19: Alexander and Osloboditelj make offhand comments responding to FD, no FOS or vote.
20: Phoebus upgrades his random on FD into a real vote
21: d_rouge attacks and votes FD (#3 on FD)
22: Alexander (that's me!) FOSs d_rouge for "blowing a small scumtell out of proportion"
23: FD attempts to explain himself, bringing up SKs and cults into the mix.
24: SpeedyKQ votes d_rouge (#3 on d_rouge)
25: Astronaut voices some suspicions of FD, no vote or FOS
27: Pug89 accuses d_rouge of weak logic, FOSs him, declines to vote as not to put him 2 from lynch.
28: Shiryu mildly suspicious of d_rouge; upgrades his random vote to a vote with reason.
29: d_rouge attempts to justify himself; says he was looking for reactions, doesn't elaborate.
30: Der Hammer hissingly votes d_rouge (he already had a random on d_rouge, which he either failed
to notice or deliberately ignored)
31: Der Hammer - "Didn't see I was already voting for him"
32: FD accuses d_rouge of weak logic, votes him (#4)
33: Osloboditelj undecided between FD and d_rouge wagons, votes Der Hammer for agressiveness and breadcrumbing
35: Maz Medias gets a 'scum vibe' from d_rouge, but no FOS or vote (keeps his joke-vote on FD intact)
34-37: an unrelated discussion of Der Hammer's hissing dips into slight silliness.
38: Pug89 upgrades the d_rouge FOS into a vote (#5)
39: Alexander warns against an "accidental" lynch
42: Phoebus reaffirms suspicions of FD, expresses dissatisfaction with d_rouge wagon, says FD should be pressured for explanations
43: SpeedyKQ unvotes d_rouge (down to 4), pressures Pug because of the 5th vote.

So, some points of notice:
- despite of his uber-agressive post 21, the d_rouge wagon moved a tad too quickly for comfort. Especially disconcerting is Pug declining to place a lynch-2 vote at 27, yet happy with placing a lynch-1 vote at 38.
- at this stage of the game, everyone who had a random vote or joke vote had either removed their vote, or gave reasoning to upgrade the random into a real vote... well, almost everyone. Maz Medias has kept his joke-vote on FD sans reasoning. This is, if I'm not mistaken, the only leftover joke/random vote from the start of the game that was left untouched and unreasoned.
- On a re-read, Der Hammer, to me, is actually the least suspicious person because of posts 30-31. Had he been scum, he'd likely just kept his random on d_rouge, or upgraded it with a brief plausible excuse, instead of forgetting he had a random and voting with much fanfare. (Usually mafia's votes are never really random, thus they are less likely to forget who they are voting for). Of course WIFOM applies, but Der Hammer doesn't strike me as one who weighs his words.
- Again on re-read, FD's remedy (post 23) does seem to be worse than the affliction (post 17). I would not mind to see him pressured for explanations.

Discuss.
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Post Post #45 (ISO) » Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:55 am

Post by Flying Dutchman »

Alexander wrote:Again on re-read, FD's remedy (post 23) does seem to be worse than the affliction (post 17). I would not mind to see him pressured for explanations.
Please explain yourself. From my point of view both of these posts say exactly the same, although I'm not giving examples in the first one. From my experience almost all mini's have 2 killing groups, so I find it odd if only one happens. I was not saying it was necessarily a Bad Thing that only 1 kill happened, I was just saying it
could
be. For me the possibility of a cult has risen greatly now only 1 kill has happened (If there are 2 killing groups in a mini I always assume there's no cult.. That'd be just too much.)
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Post Post #46 (ISO) » Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:03 am

Post by Alexander »

Discussing the setup in general is one thing, but discussing
specific
ways a kill could be prevented almost sounds like role-fishing - like you're mentioning such-and-such role, and gauging people's reactions to it.
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Post Post #47 (ISO) » Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:00 am

Post by Maz Medias »

I believe I unvoted. If not,
Unvote
, and thanks to Alexander for pointing out my error.
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Post Post #48 (ISO) » Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:41 am

Post by Osloboditelj »

On the Hammer issue, my main issue actually wasn't the hiss hiss, but the "Lets get our lynching noose ready". Combined with the rest of his comment, he's implying that he's part of a group... and that he wants the group to string d_rouge up. That doesn't make me think the group is very town-aligned. Granted, it would be poor scum play, but it still set off a lot of alarms on my side. The following comment on posting only two words a day is likewise just plain bad play. I obviously disagree with Alexander when it comes to his scumminess here - seems to me he was jumping on a perceived moment of weakness without realising where his original vote laid. I'm probably overreacting a bit to the implication that he was ready to lynch, I guess.

I wouldn't say I was undecided between the FD and d-rouge wagons - rather that I didn't think either was strong enough to warrant the attention they're getting. Of the two, I think the FD wagon is more worthwhile, mainly because, as Alexander and Phoebus said, specific speculation on the setup like that isn't a good thing for townies - for one thing, it can lock the town into assumptions which, if false, can be used by scum for misdirection. The fact that FD specifically mentioned a
mafia
blocker is particularly interesting to my mind. Still, I dont think FD is the worst offender at this point.

That honour would go to Pug right now. Let's go by the evidence of his own words:
Pug89 wrote:I don't want to vote yet as that would bring him only two votes from a lynch and I want to see his response before putting him that close to a lynch.
followed by:
Pug89 wrote:Your response did not convince me of your innocence. You voted too quickly especially considering the small amount of information available this early in the game.
Putting d_rouge at one from lynch (! - by the way, I'm extremely glad Speedy unvoted in a timely fashion). Granted, he did justify it by saying he wanted a response and then being dissatisfied with said response - which was fairly weak, but not all that scummy in my mind - but the contradiction remains, along with the larger contradiction of claiming d_r "voted too quickly" and then putting him one away from lynch on the second page of the game. Quick voting and failure to prove innocence don't quite seem like enough justification for a lynch there.
Unvote, Vote: Pug89
for hypocritical agression.

@ Alexander and Phoebus: :goodposting:
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Post Post #49 (ISO) » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:57 am

Post by Pug89 »

So Pug, do you really think putting him that close to lynch this early in the game is a good idea? Without asking for a claim or anything?
I said I wanted to wait to see what d_rouge's response to people's suspicions of him were and I did. His response failed to convince me of his innocence so I voted for him. The vote may have been a little quick but I did give him a chance to respond. If one if his later post allays my suspiciouns I will gladly unvote for him.

As to asking for a claim; I doubt that it would be of little if any use. With the theme of this claim it would be extremly easy to fake a claim.
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