Mini 382: Small Town Mafia - Game Over!


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Post Post #25 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:52 am

Post by Thesp »

Maximus wrote:So, to turn the tables, Cogito, explain to me why we only had one night death last night.
I think this is a trap.

I suspect Maximus is mafia, and the plot was to block an information role and kill me, using the missing kill as the ruse for lynching a very useful role, and allowing the roleblocker to live another night to block more useful information. I have no confirmation that I was targetted for a kill, FYI.

WHY IN THE WORLD WOULDN'T MAXIMUS HAVE TRIED TO BLOCK ME OR SOME OTHER NON-USEFUL NIGHTCHOICE ROLE INSTEAD. WHEN I SAW WHAT CHARACTER I WAS, I WOULD SWEAR THAT I'D BE THE SK. Blocking an information role is in no way pro-town. I think we can turbo-lynch today. Seriously.
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Post Post #26 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:52 am

Post by Save The Dragons »

Maximus wrote:It was pretty much between Cogito and Relyte because there was nobody else I could use my blocking ability on.
You wanted to block a power role so that we'd have less information (even if scummy, but a lie would be helpful day 1) when blocking any of the non-power roles could block someone's death?

Although I was going to point out the Cogito thing, but it looks like you did too.

Unvote, Vote: Cogito


There's a way this can happen as well, but I'll wait for it to be revealed as true or false before I change my vote.
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Post Post #27 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:53 am

Post by Eon »

Damn how didnt i notice that!
Anyway...i thought town could use SK to eliminate mafia =]

MOD:
: This is going to be stupid question but if mafia wants to kill someone they need to tell WHO is going to kill? Like Mafia X targets Player Y? Or they do hit together?
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Post Post #28 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:56 am

Post by Thesp »

Save The Dragons wrote:You wanted to block a power role so that we'd have less information (even if scummy, but a lie would be helpful day 1) when blocking any of the non-power roles could block someone's death?
How could he lie here?
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Post Post #29 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:57 am

Post by Save The Dragons »

Unvote


FOS: Thesp, Cogito, Maximus, Eon


I'll be back.
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Post Post #30 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:07 am

Post by Maximus »

Thesp wrote:
Maximus wrote:So, to turn the tables, Cogito, explain to me why we only had one night death last night.
I think this is a trap.

I suspect Maximus is mafia, and the plot was to block an information role and kill me, using the missing kill as the ruse for lynching a very useful role, and allowing the roleblocker to live another night to block more useful information. I have no confirmation that I was targetted for a kill, FYI.

WHY IN THE WORLD WOULDN'T MAXIMUS HAVE TRIED TO BLOCK ME OR SOME OTHER NON-USEFUL NIGHTCHOICE ROLE INSTEAD. WHEN I SAW WHAT CHARACTER I WAS, I WOULD SWEAR THAT I'D BE THE SK. Blocking an information role is in no way pro-town. I think we can turbo-lynch today. Seriously.
Why would I roleblock you and take away your immunity? I'm pretty sure that if I roleblock you, you can die in one hit. Now, why in the world should I go and do that? Unless, I'm absolutely sure that you are either mafia or SK.

Like I said before, I'm going to roleblock every single person until we get one night death instead of two, which would tell us that the person I roleblocked is either mafia or SK.

Voila!

I block Cogito, and we get one death on first night.

I may not qualify for Mensa, but I'm smart enough to put the two and two together.

However, your intense offensive on a roleblocker, which is very powerful mind you, is making you look very suspicious, Thesp.

I simply started roleblocking with the top of the list. Tonight, I'm debating whether to continue down the list (which would make Eon my next target) or pick a, as someone pointed out, non-useful night role. Such as willows_weep. Maybe the town can help me out here?

My FOS on Cogito stands. It will probably turn into a vote unless somebody can completely turn my theory upside down.
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Post Post #31 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:17 am

Post by Kelly Chen »

Maximus wrote:It was pretty much between Cogito and Relyte because there was nobody else I could use my blocking ability on.
What do you mean by this?
Maximus wrote:I simply started roleblocking with the top of the list.
Which is it?


I do not find it very suspicious that CES is blocked and there's only one kill. The watcher is a really obvious target for scum. The tracker is also, but if our watcher knew what he was doing I'll bet you he targeted CES last night.


Eon, yes the mafia have to send someone specifically. That is said under the alignment section.
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Post Post #32 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:20 am

Post by Relyte »

@Eon: As far as I know, in most games the Mafia member who sends the choice, is counted as the killer. Unless in some cases. (Sometimes Godfather is always killer, iirc.)

Both Cogito and Maximus have solid points here... but perhaps, Maximus is SK or Scum, and thought he could pin the blame on someone else my RB'ing them, and then saying they didn't kill last night.

However, as someone stated before, (forgot who) why didn't you start with someone without a Night choice go first, or at least a useless one?

I.E. Klebian, STD or Willows_Weep, their choices don't take effect until day only, or later in the game.

Obviously scum/SK will kill off the power roles first. Then leave the weaker roles. Such as us 4. So why did you block one of our stronger roles, Night 1, when tomorrow that person might not even be here?

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Post Post #33 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:36 am

Post by Maximus »

Top of the list of players as it appears in the roster.

Well, I wanted to block relyte because the role confirms masonry without alignment assurance. Then I looked through the list again, and said the hell with it and just work my way from top to bottom until I get lucky (aka 1 night kill instead of 2).
I do not find it very suspicious that CES is blocked and there's only one kill. The watcher is a really obvious target for scum. The tracker is also, but if our watcher knew what he was doing I'll bet you he targeted CES last night.
I don't get it. Why don't you find the situation suspicious?

How else can you explain one night kill? If I were mafia or SK, I'm sure I wouldn't want to pass up a chance to kill couple of powerful pro-town roles on the first night.

As far as I know, there was no deadline set for night 0, and the mod won't start the day until all the night choices are in. This would justify excluding the possibility that either mafia or SK didn't send a night choice in or simply forgot to.
Obviously scum/SK will kill off the power roles first. Then leave the weaker roles. Such as us 4. So why did you block one of our stronger roles, Night 1, when tomorrow that person might not even be here?
The roles were randomly assigned an alignment. A role that looks pro-town (such as watcher) could very well be aligned as the bad guy(s). Based on this, I was debating whether to pick non-useful night choices or start blocking from the top of the players list. There is no solid justification to pick either of the two methods, SINCE the alignment was chosen at random. So, you could have a useless night choice role that could be mafia/SK OR you could have the opposite and have a powerful role end up as mafia/SK.

For all we know, I could be mafia/SK.

For all we know, any one of us could be mafia/SK.

But I know that Cogito has to be scum. Because there is no other explanation for one death instead of two.
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Post Post #34 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:45 am

Post by Thesp »

Maximus wrote:However, your intense offensive on a roleblocker, which is very powerful mind you, is making you look very suspicious, Thesp.
You're right, roleblockers are very powerful for mafia. They are generally counterproductive in a townie's hands.
Maximus wrote:How else can you explain one night kill?

...

But I know that Cogito has to be scum. Because there is no other explanation for one death instead of two.
Are you deliberately overlooking the possibility that what I proposed is true (and I've been targetted for a kill), or that both scum groups targetted the same person? I think you're overselling your plot.
Maximus wrote:Based on this, I was debating whether to pick non-useful night choices or start blocking from the top of the players list. There is no solid justification to pick either of the two methods, SINCE the alignment was chosen at random.
This is wrong in so many ways. Suppose someone was a bona-fide cop or doctor. ARE YOU SERIOUSLY SUGGESTING THAT BLOCKING THEM WOULD BE AS GOOD AN IDEA AS BLOCKING ANYONE ELSE BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST AS LIKELY TO BE SCUM??? Your line of reasoning is flawed in so many ways that I am embarrassed to quote it. You are clearly the best lynch today.
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Post Post #35 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:12 am

Post by Kelly Chen »

Maximus wrote:Top of the list of players as it appears in the roster.

Well, I wanted to block relyte because the role confirms masonry without alignment assurance. Then I looked through the list again, and said the hell with it and just work my way from top to bottom until I get lucky (aka 1 night kill instead of 2).
But you also wrote
Maximus earlier wrote:It was pretty much between Cogito and Relyte because there was nobody else I could use my blocking ability on.
So I think you have revised your explanation. Also, why did you leave the watcher out of this list? Could it be that you knew the watcher would die, hmm?
Kelly wrote:I do not find it very suspicious that CES is blocked and there's only one kill. The watcher is a really obvious target for scum. The tracker is also, but if our watcher knew what he was doing I'll bet you he targeted CES last night.
I don't get it. Why don't you find the situation suspicious?

How else can you explain one night kill? If I were mafia or SK, I'm sure I wouldn't want to pass up a chance to kill couple of powerful pro-town roles on the first night.
The mafia and SK aren't cooperating. They quite probably both hit the watcher. I bet if you ran this setup repeatedly the game would
frequently
start out this way.
But I know that Cogito has to be scum. Because there is no other explanation for one death instead of two.
Whatever your alignment, insulting our intelligence is not a very good strategy!
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Post Post #36 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:26 am

Post by klebian »

Maximus, you talk of putting 1 and 1 together, but you obviously are missing the holes in your logic.
I'm fairly confident that thesp would've been targeted last night, explaining the no kill.
What you should've done is have blocked someone without a real night role. THEN, if there was only 1 kill, would you have good evidence without having wasted a power role's night action.

1 thing I want to say is that it's interesting CES tracked the rber. Why did you do that?

Question to the mod: If I am blocked at night, will I still have a double vote the next day?

Anyway, I think that thesp would be a good lynch just because of his role: if he lost one life already, then we would be able to find out who targeted him, but the downside to that is that then our psychic might get killed with no type of doc... hmm.. and our watcher is dead.

Actually, I have another mod question:
If thesp didn't lose his first life, and we lynched him, how/when would we find out he didn't die?
If he DID lose his first life, and we lynched him, would we find out he had died but then the governor would be able to pardon his lynch, thus us knowing that he had already lost his first life without killing him?


Another thing to maximus: You say you could only choose between relyte and ces, but actually you could've used in on stalling or playswithsquirrels as well in the way you are saying... or did you already know that playswithsquirrels was goign to die anyway?

Btw, sorry if this is a lot of stuff in a bad order, I'm just writing my thoughts on what has happened as they come to me.
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Post Post #37 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:27 am

Post by klebian »

EBWODP

er, whoops, I was typing while kelly posted, she already covered the
Another thing to maximus: You say you could only choose between relyte and ces, but actually you could've used in on stalling or playswithsquirrels as well in the way you are saying... or did you already know that playswithsquirrels was goign to die anyway?
part of my post in almost the exact same manner.
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Post Post #38 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:10 am

Post by Kelly Chen »

The "lynch Thesp" plan will only teach us something if he WAS hit last night (I doubt this), and I survive the night. Which I wouldn't, if there's anything for me to learn. It MIGHT save the tracker's life for another night.
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Post Post #39 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:07 am

Post by Adele »

Eon wrote:
MOD:
: This is going to be stupid question but if mafia wants to kill someone they need to tell WHO is going to kill? Like Mafia X targets Player Y? Or they do hit together?
The mafia must choose one of their number to NK
instead
of that person's usual nightaction (if they have one).
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Post Post #40 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:13 pm

Post by Save The Dragons »

To Thesp: ^^^^^

and I thought I was wrong.

Hmm.

same vein as Eon's question,
Mod
: Can the SK perform a night choice and have a kill?
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Post Post #41 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:16 pm

Post by Kelly Chen »

yes he can, c'mon this is in the rules

Also
mod
, I still would like to know if the psychic learns of targeting attempts that were blocked.
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Post Post #42 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:17 pm

Post by Adele »

Save The Dragons wrote:
Mod
: Can the SK perform a night choice and have a kill?
Yes, I designed the SK alignment as being abole to perform both standard night actions
and
NK, every night. If tracked or similar, only the open role's nightchoice would be seen - the kill wouldn't.
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Post Post #43 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:23 pm

Post by StallingChamp »

checking in.

My first reaction in reading this is that Maximus seems to be changing his arguament after problems were pointed out. Having said that, it is worth noting for later that CES was blocked and we are missing a kill.

Fos: Maximus, Minor FoS: CES
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Post Post #44 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:11 pm

Post by Save The Dragons »

Kelly Chen wrote:yes he can, c'mon this is in the rules
You think I read the rules? Pfft.
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Post Post #45 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:18 pm

Post by Adele »

Kelly Chen wrote:
mod
, I still would like to know if the psychic learns of targeting attempts that were blocked.
Sorry I missed that. Yes, Zoe will learn the name of every person who attempted to target the lynchee.
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Post Post #46 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:43 pm

Post by klebian »

klebian wrote:
Question to the mod
: If I am blocked at night, will I still have a double vote the next day?



Actually, I have another mod question:

If thesp didn't lose his first life, and we lynched him, how/when would we find out he didn't die?
If he DID lose his first life, and we lynched him, would we find out he had died but then the governor would be able to pardon his lynch, thus us knowing that he had already lost his first life without killing him?

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Post Post #47 (ISO) » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:03 pm

Post by Cogito Ergo Sum »

The reason I tracked Maximus is because I figured he had a just as good chance as anyone else to be making the mafia kill(he would've no problems lying about his choice, he could just say he blocked a role with a passive ability.) and if Maximus were to die that night, my tracking result would've given the town some additional information.
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Post Post #48 (ISO) » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:05 am

Post by Ixnayonthehombre »

Hey, I'm a little late, but that's just becuase I didn't know that the thread was open.
Maximus has a good point against Cogito.
Vote:Cogito Ergo Sum
Maximus wrote:OR you could have the opposite and have a powerful role end up as mafia/SK.
But a tracker seems like it wouldn't be much help to the Mafia.
Maximus wrote:But I know that Cogito has to be scum. Because there is no other explanation for one death instead of two.
It would seem more likely that he would be the Sk, to me at least, because he used(or at least tried to) use his tracking ability, right?
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Post Post #49 (ISO) » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:09 am

Post by Kelly Chen »

Ixnay what? What is the good point against CES? That there was only one kill?
It would seem more likely that he would be the Sk, to me at least, because he used(or at least tried to) use his tracking ability, right?
If CES is some kind of scum, there is no proof that he actually used his tracking ability.
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