Fake Claims

[wgeurts]

Reasons.
Anyway ika, then a mod could just make scum peter pan and town captain hook. If you can break a game by flavour it's not a good setup. Just like people regard a setup of certain roles that can be broken as a bad setup.

[sthar8]

dude i will play in peter pan mafia

[Accountant]

Reasons.
Anyway ika, then a mod could just make scum peter pan and town captain hook. If you can break a game by flavour it's not a good setup. Just like people regard a setup of certain roles that can be broken as a bad setup.

Then the game becomes a "outguess the mods flavor" fest

[wgeurts]

Reasons.
Anyway ika, then a mod could just make scum peter pan and town captain hook. If you can break a game by flavour it's not a good setup. Just like people regard a setup of certain roles that can be broken as a bad setup.

Then the game becomes a "outguess the mods flavor" fest

If they're guessing that the mod made peter pan town then that's already happening anyway. Just mix up the roles and flavours.

[Accountant]

That could work, as long as the mod states so in order to avoid 5 pages of "is peter pan town" WIFOMing. Also if you don't mind players getting Hannibal Lecter, Innocent Child or Edward Cullen, Vigilante

[ika]

Reasons.
Anyway ika, then a mod could just make scum peter pan and town captain hook. If you can break a game by flavour it's not a good setup. Just like people regard a setup of certain roles that can be broken as a bad setup.

I was making it where flavor mattered on claim. if you do it where charaters are jsut there and nothing else ya...

Now i need to go make a peter pan mafia game

[sthar8]

everybody knows that damn fairy is the scum anyway

[wgeurts]

That could work, as long as the mod states so in order to avoid 5 pages of "is peter pan town" WIFOMing. Also if you don't mind players getting Hannibal Lecter, Innocent Child or Edward Cullen, Vigilante

Or you just make some "good guys" scum and some "bad guys" scum with fitting roles so that trying to flavour claim just ends up with the town shooting themselves in their foot.

[Untrod Tripod]

I always give flavor fakeclaims because it would be really shitty for mafia to lose because they fakeclaimed the wrong character

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Part of the fun is in establishing a fakeclaim.

When town is aware that mafia does not have fake claims, they usually do more research and get more involved in the theme of the game. Same with scum, who are under extra pressure to successfully find a safe claim and to avoid cc'ing.
It also makes flavor claiming an early tactic as opposed to RVS.

Finally, town can get lynched just as easily for claiming a real flavor, since others can speculate it as scummy.

[Untrod Tripod]

I mean, I understand the reasoning behind that, but my biggest fear as a mod is that the players get fucked over by something that's out-of-game

[Heartless]

Same with scum, who are under extra pressure to successfully find a safe claim and to avoid cc'ing.

and they'll do this...

with the help of their psychic powers or what?

[Accountant]

how dare you play mafia without any psychic powers!

[sthar8]

More importantly, is tik-tok the other scum?

[wgeurts]

More importantly, is tik-tok the other scum?

If you believe it he is.

[farside22]

That could work, as long as the mod states so in order to avoid 5 pages of "is peter pan town" WIFOMing. Also if you don't mind players getting Hannibal Lecter, Innocent Child or Edward Cullen, Vigilante

Man that would be awesome.
How about a u-pick with your favorite movie villain as a game?

[Sajin]

Part of the fun is in establishing a fakeclaim.

When town is aware that mafia does not have fake claims, they usually do more research and get more involved in the theme of the game. Same with scum, who are under extra pressure to successfully find a safe claim and to avoid cc'ing.
It also makes flavor claiming an early tactic as opposed to RVS.

Finally, town can get lynched just as easily for claiming a real flavor, since others can speculate it as scummy.

Mafia are not obligated to use a fake claim. If you know the flavor well enough there is nothing stopping you from making up a completely different fakeclaim. Many people might alter or tweak a fake claim to suit their situation.

On the same token, not everyone has the same drive to look up everything about a theme and will likely need a fakeclaim. In theme games, a player's role is often tied to the name and flavor in someway and it takes a lot of effort to claim something that you are not in a heavy theme setup. While penalizing low effort is not a bad thing by iteself, it can make setups even more swingy purely by having players interested or non interested in the theme draw scum. Swing is not usually desirable.


I would argue that not every mod would put the nuance of setup design to make a massclaim not be game breaking without using fakeclaims. While some games are designed with that as a possibility, the majority are not. Fakeclaims are an easier way for this to be taken into account. In short, theme integration would suffer or balance would suffer.

I agree with you that town should force massclaim (flavor or even all) if they knew fakeclaims were not given out in the vast majority of setups. I just (probably) disagree with you that is desirable or healthy for the game of mafia.

[popsofctown]

It's almost impossible to have flavor without some element of outguess the mod. Outguess the mod can only be reduced. Even if you throw around alignments (which is one of those great ideas for reduction), you still have some outguess the mod elements going on. If a scum wants to fakeclaim Doctor in pokemafia or something, then they have to guess whether to fakeclaim Nurse Joy or Chansey. If they claim "Misty, the doctor", that seems a little more suspicious. If they fakeclaim the wrong flavor they can get flavor counterclaimed. It's cray.

Some people might consider this blasphemous, but I think it would be an interesting concept to PM the mafia the entire setup. It's the informed minority against the uninformed majority, right? They would have strong control over their fakeclaims, but there are numerous ways the extra info might cause them to drop scumtells more often, which is interesting. Less ability to sincerely express wonderment about the night's no-death if they have seen the Jailkeeper in the setup already.

It'd be a lot easier to figure out what kind of fakeclaim you think looks ok after a massclaim if you can see the whole setup.

My 2 cents.

[kuribo]

The reason for fake claims is that in a heavily themed game, some claims will be obvious town and some will be scum

There is no skill involved in a scum player claiming a role which already exists in the game
To use the Peter Pan example before;

scum: I'm Tiger Lily
Town: fuck you I'm tiger lily

(Town lynches one after another for a guaranteed scum kill and the moderator is rightfully called an idiot)

[notscience]

There was a house game recently where, everyone was a doctor, and scum had a fakeclaim that was a doctor town had.

[kuribo]

I remember in Weather Mafia II, Fate fake claimed his own scumbuddy's exact role

I once made a fake claim with a safe name, but in such a way that it made no sense for flavor. Everyone ignored it but mastin. I faked a guilty on her because of course I did.

Reck and tripod gave us custom fake claims in Gay Mafia. We asked for Mason fake claims. There were already masons in the game


The point is, it's not the existence of a fake claim that makes or breaks a scum game. I've won games as scum with my fake claim. I've lost games as scum with my fake claim. I've won games against scum who had fake claims.

It's all in how you use what you're given. But losing a theme game because of mod WIFOM or name claims is never fun for anyone.

[BBmolla]

Anyone who thinks forcing scum to make up their fake claim completely in a theme game is okay let me know so I don't join your games.

Me and Nexus won this game only after I realized all of the main group were power roles and our fake claims were for two members of the group and if we claimed those two members it'd look suspicious as fuck if we claimed VT. So I outguessed the mod as to who the last unclaimed VT was and managed to create me and Nexus fake claims that made sense as VTs.

But if I didn't know anything about Community, our claims would have made it pretty fucking obvious we were scum.

(Personally I think flavor is pretty dumb anyway.)

[saulres]

Also if you don't mind players getting Hannibal Lecter, Innocent Child or Edward Cullen, Vigilante

In my games if you try to break by that flavor you may succeed or you may not, depending on if the roles actually correspond to the names or not, which you can't know because I do stuff like this:

You are Hannibal Lecter. You are aligned with the scum, because c'mon what good guy eats people?

You are Hannibal Lecter. The scum want to kill everybody in town, and if they succeed, you'll starve. So you have to help town to kill the scum so you can kill the town on your own schedule. Therefore you aligned with the town.

and

You are Edward Cullen. By merely appearing in the Twilight books and movies, you are aligned with the scum.

You are Edward Cullen. The werewolves are breaking their treaty and you and your vampire and human friends must stop them before they kill you all. Therefore you are aligned with the town.

[Accountant]

How are you going to justify it if you roll something really weird like Edward Cullen Werewolf?

[Accountant]

You are Edward Cullen. Your buddy Jacob Black is in trouble! Better help him out!