Mafiascum.net

there's telling half-truths (which i think is perfectly acceptable) and then there's outright fake-claims (which are either bad because they backfire or lead to situations that would have come about regardless meaning zero gain for any risk that might have been involved). i mean, there are some exceptions but they are rare and i would suggest they should only happen in a controlled environment with zero chance of backlash

i don't necessarily think people fake-claim because they feel it's ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY (though i do imagine they feel like a hero when they *think* it works out) but i do think it's similar to people who play the pokies - they probably started after seeing someone else having minor success with it or because they thought they could profit big off it - and perhaps at some point they have profited slightly, but by and large, they're probably not going to be getting anything out of it that they wouldn't already have had and most of the time it's probably going to be a loss. but they ignore all the times bad things happen and focus only on the good

tbh i think it is our responsibility as a community to hold interventions for people who think fake-claiming is a good idea - we need to help them before their life spirals out of control and they get liver disease or something - only bad things can come of fake-claiming

Speaking about heroes in Mafia. There are no heroes in Mafia. There is only good and poor teamplay. And fakeclaiming as town is more often poor teamplay than not (so exceptions do not break this general rule).

↑ AlwaysInnocent wrote:There are no heroes in Mafia. There is only good and poor teamplay

that is explicitly not true

that said, in , games aren't won or lost by individuals

↑ zMuffinMan wrote:

↑ AlwaysInnocent wrote:There are no heroes in Mafia. There is only good and poor teamplay

that is explicitly not true

that said, in

general

, games aren't won or lost by individuals

Sure, a game can be decided by an individual, who is usually considered a "hero" at that point. But still, if you think about it, without the co-operation of the team, the game could never have been decided by that individual, so it is always a team effort.

↑ AlwaysInnocent wrote:without the co-operation of the team

still not true (except maybe in town games, but even so, that has nothing to do with 'teamplay')

I don't always roll vidge, but when I do, I prefer to kill on night 0

And the people I kill are frequent liars, frequent lurkers, people that play scummy as town to help their meta, or players that post so much it amounts to a 40+ page day 1

PS. Can someone please modify my avatar to have XX's instead of cards and a dosequis in my hand instead of the cane. Also include the quote "I don't always roll vidge, but when I do, I prefer to kill on night 0"

What about underclaiming your results?
Like saying youre a weaker version of your role to try and get maximal value out of it?

↑ Antihero wrote:

↑ GuyInFreezer wrote:Similar example is tracker in newbie setup claiming cop after lynching scum Day 1 and tracking doctor Night 1. Nothing can possibly go wrong with that.

ok, so i get the idea. you trick the scum into thinking there's no doc when really there is one.

so... when you get asked for results, you out your inno on the doc?

Yes.

Because the moment you claim cop in that situation you basically have solidified town win and scum killing outside of claimed cop risks being scanned from scum's point of view.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p3003514

I think people try to replicate this kind of thing, ignoring all the things that could have sent said fakeclaim crashing down in flames.

even the one you linked, zach...

scum took advantage of it and used it to coast to a win.

Oh yeah, I could definitely come up with far more that ended worse than that one.

↑ Psyche wrote:ahaha ok you asked for it

yep, ya' really got me. congrats. guess that's what i get for running off at the mouth.

my point isn't so much fakeclaiming COULDN'T be done in theory.

it's that it can't be done in practice. and if you do it, you're kind of a dick.

↑ zMuffinMan wrote:tbh i think it is our responsibility as a community to hold interventions for people who think fake-claiming is a good idea - we need to help them before their life spirals out of control and they get liver disease or something - only bad things can come of fake-claiming

yeah, i know it's just the awful to have things blown out of proportion.

fakeclaiming as town is about the equivalent of pulling down your pants and taking a dump on the board while playing a board game.

it might not be the worst thing anyone can do but it's still inconsiderate and annoying.

Town fakeclaiming is like playing the lottery. Usually you're throwing your money away, but what you're really after is the feeling you get when you hit the jackpot. Like a gambler that's the rationale behind it being a good play.

I'll just see myself out.

↑ Cheetory6 wrote:What about underclaiming your results?
Like saying youre a weaker version of your role to try and get maximal value out of it?

I'm not sure what you mean by underclaiming your result, but I think explicitly or implicitly under and overclaiming roles' strength happens all the time, with the intent of giving scum something to wifom about, such as whether a player has more shots left or is essentially VT.

^Basically this.
Wondering whether this is bad play since you're technically fake claiming in both instances.

I would say withholding the number of shots you have as an x-shot is just good town play overall. Keep scum guessing. It's not the same thing as saying you are a role you really aren't.

↑ Cheetory6 wrote:^Basically this.
Wondering whether this is bad play since you're technically fake claiming in both instances.

IMO it's not bad play.

ika wrote:words

You of all people need to take the OP to heart.

↑ BBmolla wrote:is this about people claiming mason when they're not masons

Am I just really smart because I can tell when a mason claim is real and when it's just someone saying they think X is town

It's my mason buddy!

Antihero, you're a badass and your post is awesome.

Town fakeclaiming is similar to playing the lottery, but honestly worse. You buy a ticket for the lotto and lose? You're out a couple bucks. You fakeclaim and it fails? You've ruined the game. Orders of magnitude of loss on failure.

Basically,

↑ GuyInFreezer wrote:One shouldn't fakeclaim as town for survival. One shouldn't fakeclaim as town for persuasion advantage. One shouldn't fakeclaim to keep up with one's meta. (Forcing a negative action upon self just to keep up with one's meta is stupid from the beginning and is a very good indication that one should change his playstyle.) The only time when fakeclaiming as town is even acceptable is (1) You know damn well about what you're doing. (2) There is absolutely no way that lying will backfire in any way. (3) It gains a high advantage if succeeds. Most people fails at (1). (2) is an extremely rare situation. (3) is also an extremely rare situation and there are usually better and more simple alternatives.

Fakeclaiming miller as an IC is okay. Fakeclaiming Friendly Neighbor as a mason is okay, and this could even be classified as a "weakened" claim.

There are a few other contexts where town doing shit that isn't leaving out a part of their claim or claiming a slightly different version of their role is okay, but they are few and far between.

↑ Cheetory6 wrote:What about underclaiming your results?
Like saying youre a weaker version of your role to try and get maximal value out of it?

you run the risk of drawing a cc if the "weaker" role is actually in the game. the payoff isn't that great anyway. if you're an investigative that has incriminating evidence on scum, there's really nothing you can do to make yourself a nontarget.

that said, purposefully leaving ambiguity isn't the same thing as fakeclaiming.

In what case can you imagine a stronger + weaker role being in the game but not weaker + weaker?

I am with the OP.

↑ chamber wrote:In what case can you imagine a stronger + weaker role being in the game but not weaker + weaker?

He's saying duplicate roles are less likely ergo run higher risk of counter-claim (that said, this is dependent on the mod, really)

↑ BROseidon wrote:Fakeclaiming miller as an IC is okay. Fakeclaiming Friendly Neighbor as a mason is okay, and this could even be classified as a "weakened" claim.

There are a few other contexts where town doing shit that isn't leaving out a part of their claim or claiming a slightly different version of their role is okay, but they are few and far between.

The only drawback of claiming Miller as an IC is cop still checking the claimed Miller and go "hey guys I got innocent off of this guy"