mhsmith0's Mini Normal Review

[Firebringer]

Or neo.

[borkjerfkin]

What say you about a scum role cop, getting
Mafia Goon
Mafia Role Cop
Mafia Traitor

i like a little better, yeah.

I don't think scum need another PR tbh.
Role cop seems over kill.

?

[Firebringer]

ohh wait Traitor Tracker was taken out. Didn't fully read.
~DERP~

[Firebringer]

Bump

[mhsmith0]

Town
6 VTs
Jailkeeper
Roleblocker
Fruit Vendor
1-shot BP

Scum
Mafia Goon
Mafia Role Cop
Mafia Traitor

Scum can act and kill at same time, which makes the fruit vendor much weaker than normal, but still has the potential to verify jailkeeper / roleblocker role actions, since reciipeint would not have gotten fruit (i.e. something super weak, a little +1 that isn't enough to necessarily prevent a mislynch, which in a traitor setup I think is fair).

I'm willing to mull over cutting role cop to neapolitan, but I'm concerned that scum is too underpowered, since they're in real trouble when the first non-traitor goes down given town's double blocking power.

[mastina]

And I think that concern is largely mitigated by the town's roles being MASSIVELY contradictory: they are redundant, they have zero synchronization, if a kill fails literally every single one of them is going to claim and think they're responsible, if one claims the others are going to CC, and there's a 90% chance the town mislynches one, two, or even all three of their PRs, and even if they figure out that the JK/RB/BP are all town, they're going to see the Fruit Vendor stick out and think that scum being able to kill/block makes it be a scum ability.

[borkjerfkin]

I'd keep as is.

[mastina]

Like.
People think that a traitor is a net-negative for the scum.
But it's really a net-positive. The traitor knows the scum, but the scum don't know the traitor--meaning, interactions are going to be much harder to pick up on.
The town, assuming three groupscum, are going to be making faulty calls as to the nature of the scumteam, because smaller scumteams with traitors play differently than larger scumteams without traitors.

I just think that the setup is moving further and further AWAY from being balanced, rather than closer. The original setup looked balanced to me. Every change that has been made since then has just been bumping up the power of the scum, when they didn't need the boost in the first place.

[borkjerfkin]

it also gets endgamed if its partners get lynched

[borkjerfkin]

i think you're going into what you think town is going to do rather than what they are strictly able to do

i'm not saying that's wrong, but it's not what i'm doing

[mhsmith0]

Just generally speaking, one good PR (jailkeeper), two decent PRs (BP, roleblocker) and one little bit extra (fruit vendor) I think is normally OP for town against a three-goon team. The setup WIFOM and potential power interference of roles is a negative for town, but turning a goon into a traitor is a big negative for scum, especially in a setup where town has primarily blocking power, and I'm inclined to think rolecop is fair compensation.

OTOH I'm on the fence of going neapolitan instead of rolecop, so at the least I'm mulling it over. Kinda want to see what everyone thinks balance-wise, since it's definitely a mechanically weird setup (which is funny given that all the roles are super normal).

[borkjerfkin]

Like I get that finding the traitor is going to be hard in this setup.

the problem is that town don't have to lynch the traitor in order to win.

[mhsmith0]

I suppose I'm also ok with cutting out both the rolecop and traitor and making it

Town
6 VTs
Jailkeeper
Roleblocker
Fruit Vendor
1-shot BP

Scum
3x Mafia Goon

which I think drastically cuts down on the swing in the setup, preventing an potentially easy win for town (scum lynch d1, rb or jk n1, scum lynch d2) but also making it a bit less likely that the rb/jk combo prevents kills, especially early

[mastina]

In the setup for 37, I'd probably call that balanced, though I'm on the fence on whether it'd be public scum could kill and action or whether scum cannot kill and action, as which would make the difference in the power of the fruit vendor for town. (It'd be a close call either way. Act, slightly weaker town; can't act, slightly stronger town.)

I mean, given the setup my prediction would be a scum win, but that'd be thanks to the natural incompetency of towns, and not something we'd be balancing for. It's balanced, given natural plays. (Given stupid plays, my prediction, of course it's gonna end up with a scum win, but eh, not much you can really do there to stop towns from being stupid.)

[mhsmith0]

Yeah lolwillage is always a thing. The traitor/rolecop bit allows for lolwolves (since they DO kill off their own traitor sometimes), but I'm fine with a less swingy all-goon version.

I guess the next question is daychat or not. I usually prefer it, but I'm also fine with making it encryptor and 2 goons, unless the thought it it's vital for balance not to have it.

[mhsmith0]

oh wait original format was

"Daytalk on, mafia can't take a night action and kill simultaneously"

I'm fine w that. This is waht happens when I start forgetting things

[Nexus]

How we doing

[mhsmith0]

Reviewers need to check in to confirm, but I THINK that the setup in 37 is about where the reviewers will be ok with.

[borkjerfkin]

Yep, sorry

[mhsmith0]

I'm also fine with making daychat dependent on an encryptor (so goon/goon/encryptor) if there's a bit too much scum power in reviewrs' minds.

[borkjerfkin]

sure, makes it more interesting

[mhsmith0]

So then:

Town
6 VTs
Jailkeeper
Roleblocker
Fruit Vendor
1-shot BP

Scum
Encryptor
2x Mafia Goon

no day chat announcement
any objections?

[mastina]

None from me.

[mhsmith0]

x

[mhsmith0]

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