Mafiascum.net

In post 18, Ircher wrote:Town Odd-Night Jailkeeper
Town Even-Night Roleblocker
Town Follower Neighbor
Town Voyeur Neighbor
Mafia 1-Shot Strongman Encryptor
Mafia Odd-Night Ninja
Mafia Even-Night Jailkeeper (Town RB has precedence)
6 * Vanilla Townie

ew.... that's ugly

also scumsided

Ugly? Nah, it's great fun. I ran the setup before (w/o the 1-shot strongman).

ugh

so i'm guessing u fell into the trap of "town won so it must've been townsided"

In post 21, Antihero wrote:

In post 17, Fro99er wrote:Town Backup Innocent Child
Town Backup Innocent Child (yes, two of them)
Town Odd-Night Role Cop
Town Even-Night Role Cop
Town Encryptor Enabler
5 VTs

Mafia Encryptor
Mafia Backup Encryptor
Mafia Goon

smidge scumsided. balanced enough.

Was a perfect scum win...was just curious. We got lucky to lynch the odd-night rolecop D1 on a last minute flashlynch.

In post 13, Antihero wrote:

In post 11, chamber wrote:

In post 5, RadiantCowbells wrote:Townsided but not by an insane amount.

I lean towards 3 masons 3 mafia 7 vts being a balanced setup. This is considerably more townsided than that.

the stats don't bear that out https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... nd_Enemies

There aren't any stats in what you linked unless I'm blind.

In post 28, Fro99er wrote:

In post 21, Antihero wrote:

In post 17, Fro99er wrote:Town Backup Innocent Child
Town Backup Innocent Child (yes, two of them)
Town Odd-Night Role Cop
Town Even-Night Role Cop
Town Encryptor Enabler
5 VTs

Mafia Encryptor
Mafia Backup Encryptor
Mafia Goon

smidge scumsided. balanced enough.

Was a perfect scum win...was just curious. We got lucky to lynch the odd-night rolecop D1 on a last minute flashlynch.

Unless I'm missing something this setup is super scum sided, not a smidge.

like, unless I'm missing something the rolecops are basically strictly worse cops. So, imagine the setup was instead 8 vts 1 odd-night cop, 1 even night cop, 3 goons. Does that look remotely balanced to you? It shouldn't.

yep, that's why i corrected myself

In post 24, Antihero wrote:actually... nix that

that's scumsided

In post 29, chamber wrote:

In post 13, Antihero wrote:

In post 11, chamber wrote:

In post 5, RadiantCowbells wrote:Townsided but not by an insane amount.

I lean towards 3 masons 3 mafia 7 vts being a balanced setup. This is considerably more townsided than that.

the stats don't bear that out https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... nd_Enemies

There aren't any stats in what you linked unless I'm blind.

"history" section

In post 31, chamber wrote:like, unless I'm missing something the rolecops are basically strictly worse cops. So, imagine the setup was instead 8 vts 1 odd-night cop, 1 even night cop, 3 goons. Does that look remotely balanced to you? It shouldn't.

relax...wasn't my setup. One I played in.

In post 34, Fro99er wrote:

In post 31, chamber wrote:like, unless I'm missing something the rolecops are basically strictly worse cops. So, imagine the setup was instead 8 vts 1 odd-night cop, 1 even night cop, 3 goons. Does that look remotely balanced to you? It shouldn't.

relax...wasn't my setup. One I played in.

And it was approved by the NRG for normalcy and balance back in 2015 when I played it.

Guess site meta for balance has changed

In post 25, Antihero wrote:

In post 18, Ircher wrote:Town Odd-Night Jailkeeper
Town Even-Night Roleblocker
Town Follower Neighbor
Town Voyeur Neighbor
Mafia 1-Shot Strongman Encryptor
Mafia Odd-Night Ninja
Mafia Even-Night Jailkeeper (Town RB has precedence)
6 * Vanilla Townie

ew.... that's ugly

also scumsided

In post 26, Ircher wrote:Ugly? Nah, it's great fun. I ran the setup before (w/o the 1-shot strongman).

In post 27, Antihero wrote:ugh

so i'm guessing u fell into the trap of "town won so it must've been townsided"

It's even more so given that the hoods are night only. Even without the strongman it's scumsided by MS standards. Ninja can crush the follower, jailkeeper can mess w town power, etc. towns power is limited, gated, and in many cases directly countered by extra scum power.

Odd jk
Even rb
Follower
Vs three goons

Would be a bit scumsided, and the net effect of the various extras probably just makes it more so. The strongman throws it well out of balance, potentially giving MULTIPLE late game fake innocent scenarios (ninja vs follower, strongman vs jk or rb).

In post 34, Fro99er wrote:

In post 31, chamber wrote:like, unless I'm missing something the rolecops are basically strictly worse cops. So, imagine the setup was instead 8 vts 1 odd-night cop, 1 even night cop, 3 goons. Does that look remotely balanced to you? It shouldn't.

relax...wasn't my setup. One I played in.

but you nominate it for a scummy :O

what is the thought process that goes into whether a game is balanced or not and how balanced a game is

Town Tracker
Town Tracker
3 * Mafia Goon
8 * Vanilla Townie

In post 39, Ircher wrote:Town Tracker
Town Tracker
3 * Mafia Goon
8 * Vanilla Townie

good one

lol

nope

In post 39, Ircher wrote:Town Tracker
Town Tracker
3 * Mafia Goon
8 * Vanilla Townie

special mechanic: on the first two days, scum have to nightkill one of their own after a mislynch

ok, it's balanced now

In post 42, Antihero wrote:

In post 39, Ircher wrote:Town Tracker
Town Tracker
3 * Mafia Goon
8 * Vanilla Townie

special mechanic: on the first two days, scum have to nightkill one of their own after a mislynch

ok, it's balanced now

Probs ok w just doing it day one but yeah basically

Balanced:
3 town PRs, two of which are good, against three goons

Tracker/tracker/doctor is MAYBE ok, but even there I'd be skeptical.

Not sure if this is the right place for this but how does one go about deducing or figuring out a setup? Say town mislynches and the flip is revealed to be a jailkeeper, how would you go about knowing what roles are than most likely?

You basically don't. Honestly scum flips (pr vs goon) are more helpful than town flips for setup spec, but the big thing is looking at overall power level and thinking

1) does it all make sense vs goons
2) does it make sense if scum has some extra amount of power

There's some sense in looking at whether roles fit together typically, but mods like to play w roles sometimes so setup spec tends to be mediocre generally.

I know nothing about setup balance. How do I learn how to be a good setup designer? What heuristics are used when balancing setups?

In post 37, McMenno wrote:

In post 34, Fro99er wrote:

In post 31, chamber wrote:like, unless I'm missing something the rolecops are basically strictly worse cops. So, imagine the setup was instead 8 vts 1 odd-night cop, 1 even night cop, 3 goons. Does that look remotely balanced to you? It shouldn't.

relax...wasn't my setup. One I played in.

but you

did

nominate it for a scummy :O

So I did.

That said, Anti did like the setup 2 years ago as well: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 1#p7022071

site meta has clearly changed, because now Anti says it's clearly scumsided after saying that two years ago.

you live you learn

8 vts
1 one-shot cop
2 goons