Newbie 1806 - The Ffery Garden: GAME OVER!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1.2

I was originally going to spam the vote counts with photos from my garden, but I would have to start taking pictures of individual blades of grass to make it through the game. So, I'm going to spam the vote counts with my garden wish list instead!

One of these days (this fall, probs) I'm going to plant a dwarf Japanese maple in my front yard. They can vary in height from hardly a shrub to about 10 feet tall, and develop a proportionally wide canopy.

Ciara24

(3): WhyMafia, mhsmith0, King Cankles

GinsengTea

(1): PersephoneSidekick

King Cankles

(1): Ciara24

WhyMafia

(1): GinsengTea

Not Voting

(3): DoubloonSeven, PestoSwami, Fykus

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: July 6, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2017-07-05 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-DoubloonSeven has 24 hours from Day 1 start in which to post before I must seek a replacement.
-

[Fykus]

VOTE: whymafia

Cause thats my schtick

[Ciara24]

It was more of a joke to be honest. Because you said choo choo. Like a train.
Wasn't sufficiently bothered by it - but now I'm wondering why an IC would be so defensive about a vote in the RVS stage when all votes are clearly just to get discussion going...

(Also slightly rude. We're all just here to have fun.)

I'll admit to being slightly rude, but I feel like that's within a pretty reasonable layer of civility (attack the play, not the player sort of thing).

I guess I'm a bit confused by your "joke" question here:

Why was WhyMafia's train better than mine?

is tonally consistent with an actual question asking for information, as opposed to being intended as just a joke (like, the train bit seems fine as a joke sort of thing, but the point of it was "why" as opposed to "lol watch me make a train joke"). Are you now saying that it was not intended to be serious at all?

Because it reads to me as weird that you'd make a "joke" that doesn't read like a joke, and that instead read just like a really bad attempt at asking a serious question, and then you'd then shade me for being "defensive" about pushing you about why you'd ask such an empty question, especially when you note that the goal here is to "get discussion going", which it seems pretty clear that this was something I've been actively trying to do.

Explain?

(also, if you could provide any relevant meta examples of you making jokes that read as non-jokes that'd be cool, unless it's something that you're not really self-aware about)

I don't really keep a log of jokes that fall flat, but you're more than welcome to flick through my posts (although I was last active on this site two years ago so I'm not sure they'd be entirely relevant.)

Yes, it wasn't meant to be serious. It's RVS. I was genuinely asking you to compare the merits of the two trains that started during RVS. I evidently could have saved myself all this hassle by putting a smiley face after it.

[PestoSwami]

Hey all! First game of Mafia and super excited to start it.

How vitriolic do these games get? We're two pages in and already going at each other's throats.

[King Cankles]

UNVOTE:

I'll save it for when things actually get relevant. Or are going with a No Lynch for D1?

Vote formatting fixed for Thesp's amazing and wonderful vote counter ~f

[fferyllt]

Searching for a replacement for DoubloonSeven

[Ciara24]

Hey all! First game of Mafia and super excited to start it.

How vitriolic do these games get? We're two pages in and already going at each other's throats.

Depends on the game and the players. The important thing is to attack the play style, not the player/s themselves.

Welcome to your first game! Have fun!!

[mhsmith0]

Hey all! First game of Mafia and super excited to start it.

How vitriolic do these games get? We're two pages in and already going at each other's throats.

Depends on the game and the players.

The important thing is to attack the play style, not the player/s themselves.

Welcome to your first game! Have fun!!

I'd say that I very strongly agree with the bold/underlined point. wrt the game being "vitriolic", I'd say that I don't especially agree with that assessment, at least at the current time (it's normal to push people on what they're saying/doing, it's not normal to name call, to engage in personal attacks, to be obnoxious, etc).

Anyway, I don't completely hate ciara's 27, so...

VOTE: whymafia

[WhyMafia]

Or are going with a No Lynch for D1?

Nah
No-lynches barely give us info. I would say it's better to lynch so we have a better understanding of how wagons evolved, and associations

[WhyMafia]

Town leaning Mhsmith for attempting to get us out of RVS

[mhsmith0]

Town leaning Mhsmith for attempting to get us out of RVS

Why do you think that's town-indicative? In particular, why do you think that scum-me would prefer a longer RVS to a shorter one, where I could more quickly start slinging sludge and pushing "cases"?

[WhyMafia]

Town leaning Mhsmith for attempting to get us out of RVS

Why do you think that's town-indicative? In particular, why do you think that scum-me would prefer a longer RVS to a shorter one, where I could more quickly start slinging sludge and pushing "cases"?

Because scum benefits from an extended RVS and jokes. RVS provides minimal risk as opposed to fabricating cases. Of course this is a weak reason, which explains my weak town read

[PestoSwami]

Hey, so I'm a bit confused for a couple of things.

Is it better to lynch or push during RVS or just hang out and do nothing? WhyMafia is saying that extended RVS is bad for town and mhsmith is saying it's good. I remember in the guide I read in this thread that says extended is town favoured - or is it all down to the player?

Also, what's the point of RVS? I don't quite see what forcing people to react would do when there isn't any information to go on anyway. Especially if town can be scumread pretty easily. Maybe I'm missing something? Do you just bandwagon on someone and see what they say so you can trap them later if they are scum?



Also, please tell me if I'm getting terms right - still getting kind of up to speed.

[WhyMafia]

Is it better to lynch or push during RVS or just hang out and do nothing? WhyMafia is saying that extended RVS is bad for town and mhsmith is saying it's good. I remember in the guide I read in this thread that says extended is town favoured - or is it all down to the player?

Well I mean an extended RVS means we're not really making cases/wasting time
Therefore it is of my opinion that RVS is scum favored

Also, what's the point of RVS? I don't quite see what forcing people to react would do when there isn't any information to go on anyway. Especially if town can be scumread pretty easily. Maybe I'm missing something? Do you just bandwagon on someone and see what they say so you can trap them later if they are scum?

RVS happens because there's nothing to go off to begin with. When something controversial happens, it brings us out of RVS.

Keep asking questions if you have any ^_^

[Fykus]

I always thought that scum hated RVS because its hard for them to "act" RVS'y or something along those lines. You just get more suss by the minute WM. I've got my eyes on you.

[PestoSwami]

Yeah, one last question - how do you do the nested reply thing? I haven't participated heavily on a forum site since hl2:dm was a thing. You managed to break up my post in two, both as replies so I'd like to know how to do that too.

Also, If you can break posts up like that can't you misconstrue people's words in order to bus them? I guess people would remember what they say and call you on it?

Thanks for teaching me the ropes!!!!

[WhyMafia]

I always thought that scum hated RVS because its hard for them to "act" RVS'y or something along those lines. You just get more suss by the minute WM. I've got my eyes on you.

I mean this is all theory lol
But regarding that:
RVS is simply joke posts. What's there to fake?

[WhyMafia]

Yeah, one last question - how do you do the nested reply thing? I haven't participated heavily on a forum site since hl2:dm was a thing. You managed to break up my post in two, both as replies so I'd like to know how to do that too.

Also, If you can break posts up like that can't you misconstrue people's words in order to bus them? I guess people would remember what they say and call you on it?

Thanks for teaching me the ropes!!!!

I mean I'm really bad at formatting. And my method of splitting replies is very inefficient. First, I highlight what I want to respond to. Then, I click quote. Next, I right my reply. Then, I cut it, and repeat with the second part. Finally, I am able to paste the first part back in.

Regarding your second question, I have no idea what you're asking sorry . Regarding the second sentence where you say "I guess people would remember what they say and call you on it," you can click the ISO on the top of the post where it also gives the post time and number to find all of that individual's posts. Alternatively, you can do it by clicking the drop down box on the bottom of the page. Using this method, you can check multiple people's posts at once

[Fykus]

I always thought that scum hated RVS because its hard for them to "act" RVS'y or something along those lines. You just get more suss by the minute WM. I've got my eyes on you.

I mean this is all theory lol
But regarding that:
RVS is simply joke posts. What's there to fake?

It's just a theory. A game theory~

[PersephoneSidekick]

I always thought that scum hated RVS because its hard for them to "act" RVS'y or something along those lines. You just get more suss by the minute WM. I've got my eyes on you.

I'm curious what exactly is making you suspicious of him. Is it all the talk about it being good to get out of RVS? Anything else?

I honestly don't understand why you think staying in RVS is a good thing. We have to scumhunt eventually. Do you have a picture of what actively scumhunting in RVS looks like? Are there tells you look for? Does anybody else other than WM look scummy to you?

[PestoSwami]

Maf,

Or anyone,

I guess what I'm saying is how the heck to you quote people? I'm seriously so bad at forum related stuff

[mhsmith0]

Maf,

Or anyone,

I guess what I'm saying is how the heck to you quote people? I'm seriously so bad at forum related stuff

At the top right of every post, there should be three icons. The triangle with a ! Sign is to report a post, the second is "quote" which lets you quote the relevant post, and the Q+ is for multi-quoting (if you click it, then click quote on a different post, both will pop up in the reply window)

[mhsmith0]

Wrt RVS, it mainly is a personal preference. Some people are comfortable in it, some aren't. What I found odd was the statement of a read seemingly just based on my doing something, which is essentially a weak reason for a read.

Also, on a theory basis, imo what matters most is how you get out of it. If it's with a decent case you feel good about, great. If it's with scum doing something to look solvey and exposing themselves in the process, great. If it's just getting out for the sake of getting out, typically less great. Basically, the key is to have something worth getting out of RVS for, and that's why you work to engage people and get to the point where you're comfortable with having a solid read (or at least something somewhat solid) and then going from there. RVS can be productive if it lasts a little while or a long while, it depends on the game and the player base.

[mhsmith0]

Also, it's useful for everyone to participate. If you have no real ideas or reads, just throw down a vote and see what happens. And while you're doing that, pay attention to what others are doing and see if you can glean some insight into WHY they're doing what they're doing, and possibly ask questions about things you find interesting. The more you put into the game, the better your teammates will be able to read you (if you're town), and/or the more you'll learn how to try and fake that process (if you're scum).

Ps As an easy example of motivation, in these couple posts you can see me talking about theory. This is part of my job as an IC regardless of my alignment; unlike other slots, I explicitly have the dual responsibilities of playing to wincon and helping newbies learn and acclimate to site meta. In this partuclar instance, I'm explaining something in a way that I'd probably do as any alignment, but you may disagree, or you may find that to be something you want want to poke at or engage with.

[mhsmith0]

Or are going with a No Lynch for D1?

Nah
No-lynches barely give us info. I would say it's better to lynch so we have a better understanding of how wagons evolved, and associations

Essentially correct. My ic posts are NOT required reading, but I'll highlight some excepts from the d1 scumhunting note:

I believe that d1 is the mafia's hardest day. They will leave a legacy of clues on this day specifically that will help you throughout the game.
...
Either way, d1 is 'pure'. Insincerity has a sharp relief. Mafia don't have as much townie generated 'sludge' to hide behind. Fake scumhunting is hard. bk as scum team lead was doing a good job, but even then ultimately his solution to getting through d1 was to vote on a buddy. I don't blame him. It's one of my favourites too. It has so much long-term value and a good mafia knows that d1 is tough because he is thinking deeply about what it is to be a mafia.

As well as something in my own words...

Scum-hunting is hard! But even harder than scum-hunting is fake scum-hunting. If all town-aligned players invest into the game, and are truly trying to figure out who is and is not mafia, then it becomes massively harder for mafia players to blend in and either actively drive mislynches or sit back and watch town destroy itself; moreover, their insincere attempts to pretend to be trying to sort and solve players’ alignments stands out starkly against a town that is collectively engaged in sincere, energetic and aggressive attempts to find the mafia. If most to all town-aligned players are inactive, or lazy, or just choose to let someone else do the work, then it becomes much harder for town to win. Moreover, it’s simply a much more fun game when everyone is active and engaged.

As a town, you win in the day game. You don't win by hoping power roles get lucky, you win by actively scum-hunting, forcing scum to work hard to simulate that process and (hopefully) slip up along the way. The more active and engaged people are (barring some exceptions where games just become spam fests) the easier this task is.