Newbie 1867 - Game Over

[ofrhz]

Was Vulcan logician serious about his townread of crepppy

[Ircher]

hello

VOTE: Harambey

Wow this is scummy af

VOTE: Alciel

Honestly, I feel like you jumped off too soon, but okie-dokie.
Now, yes, I agree that a naked L-1 vote is fairly scummy, but.... playing Devil’s advocate here... We are in RVS here for the most part. How can you be sure they are scum trying to do a quicklynch versus a lazy townie? This is of course an argument that basically boils down to WIFOM, but I want you to consider the alternative explanations for this action here. Remember, just because something appears “scummy” does not necessarily mean it came from scum. Town can just as easily make the same mistakes as scum, perhaps more so because scum are generally more careful.

(That said, I still want to hear from them their explanation for their action.)
Pedit: Why don’t you ask him? But I think he was based on claiming Crepppy was “obvtown” to everyone else.

[ofrhz]

Yea I did consider that, but it’s not just the unannounced L-1 vote. It’s also the “hello” that I find scummy. I think town would say something in addition to that

I’m interested in seeing how they respond to my vote

[Ircher]

I doubt you’ll get much from 1 vote but okay. About the ‘Hello’ — If we consider it to be an RVS vote (which is reasonable), then I don’t read it really as alignment-indicative; it’s about the same as writing nothing. But we can agree to disagree there.

[Alciel]

@Ali - Explain please.
Pedit: Nvm my warning

He didn't state a reason so I voted for him, same reason why you're asking me thid. Didn't state mine since no one really asked him why for his vote.

[Etromin]

I'm not really sure the wagon here is actually putting pressure on, though, because it's clearly a pressure wagon surely that defeats the purpose?

[Huntress]

Vote Count 1.1

Harambey180 (3) - Draynth, vulcan logician, Alciel
crepppy (2) - Etromin, Harambey180
vulcan logician (2) - crepppy, Ircher
Alciel (1) - ofrhz

Not voting (1) - Nachomamma8


With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Wednesday, 16th May, 09.00. BST, (in (expired on 2018-05-16 09:00:00)).

@Mod: V/LA til Saturday; I still will be able to post some tomorrow but not very long.

Noted.

[Draynth]

VOTE: Etromin
Serious vote

[Etromin]

VOTE: Etromin
Serious vote

Um... are you going to elaborate on that?

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Harambey180

I think the fact that he hasn't posted yet is strange. He's been active onsite for a while after the L-1 wagon formed, and I think that it's likelier that he is scum who is avoiding posting for a little while in the hopes that what's mostly just a baseless wagon will die out than town who saw the wagon form and had nothing to say/could find nothing to address.

Other fairly equivalent votes I could see myself making are Alciel and creppy. I don't believe that either have them have done more than the bare minimum to play the game, which is sometimes a sign of scum who is uncomfortable.

[Harambey180]

Vote: Harambey180

I think the fact that he hasn't posted yet is strange. He's been active onsite for a while after the L-1 wagon formed, and I think that it's likelier that he is scum who is avoiding posting for a little while in the hopes that what's mostly just a baseless wagon will die out than town who saw the wagon form and had nothing to say/could find nothing to address.

Other fairly equivalent votes I could see myself making are Alciel and creppy. I don't believe that either have them have done more than the bare minimum to play the game, which is sometimes a sign of scum who is uncomfortable.

The wagon was mostly formed thanks to RVS so I didn't have much to defend against.
Besides, wagons this early on hardly ever get said person lynched.

Why would I try to 'defend' myself against a wagon this early on? By staying silent I also won't give scum more information / opportunities to throw more shade in me. And the more I talk, the more I'm putting myself in a losing position based on the past. Because of how I verbalize things, I guess.

[Nachomamma8]

Random

Vote: crepppy

for having too many Ps in their name.

I think bold is okay to use, but just FYI (since it's your first game) you can use vote tags too... type:

Code: Select all

 [vote]"the person's name"[/vote] 

.

You may have already known, but just in case you didn't, now you do.

VOTE: your vote here[/ v] (without spaces) also works, for the record.

Currently, I scumread Vulcan for their town read on Crepppy as well as joining the ever popular Haram wagon.

I'm assuming that you find Vulcan's townread on crepppy scummy because it's a weak and unsubstantiated one. What do you think Vulcan as scum gains from faking that specific townread? In general, I'd imagine scum fake townreads in order to fake scumhunt and blend in; do you really think that Vulcan as scum thinks that people will read his townread on creppy for picking up on the obvious scumtell that is "having a space in his username" and buy it as an earnest and genuine piece of scumhunting?

Ah, you are right about the wagon. Still, the reason you gave for townreading Crepppy is one I strongly disagree with, especially when you assert they are obvtown. Also, only you stated that Crepppy was obvtown. If we were talking a light townread, I could buy that; however, I do not buy a hard townread on someone based solely on a comment made during RVS.

Vulcan's initial statement was that he leaned town on crepppy, which qualifies as a "light townread to me". Why did you scumread it if the reasoning was something that you could believe? Do you disagree that his initial read on crepppy was a light townread or am I missing something here?

I also have trouble believing that you could buy a light townread on crepppy for that reasoning. If the reasoning is genuine, then it's absolutely atrocious and is on par with the worst reasoning I've ever seen - I just heavily doubt that it's genuine.

[Nachomamma8]

The wagon was mostly formed thanks to RVS so I didn't have much to defend against.
Besides, wagons this early on hardly ever get said person lynched.

The purpose of having wagons early is to encourage everyone to talk about one person/give an opinion on one person. Even though the wagons early don't lead to something a vast majority of the time, it's still an uncomfortable position for scum and can still affect first impressions that are sometimes hard to shake.

Why would I try to 'defend' myself against a wagon this early on? By staying silent I also won't give scum more information / opportunities to throw more shade in me. And the more I talk, the more I'm putting myself in a losing position based on the past. Because of how I verbalize things, I guess.

My problem was less that you weren't defending yourself and more that you weren't posting at all. When you're town and you're the significant wagon, it means that, at this moment, the town's main direction is wrong. So, if you're town here, all of the time that we're spending pushing and investigating you is essentially time wasted. When you encourage people to vote elsewhere - either by defending yourself or scumhunting and generally giving town - you're increasing the chances that scum get lynched by having people focus their time elsewhere.

I strongly disagree with the sentiment expressed in the later half of your statement. In a typical game, scum do not need information to win; they are called the "informed minority" for a reason. Their general goals should be keeping information from town when possible (although generally boring as hell, one of the more effective scum strategies is not attempting to jumpstart a game that is apathetic), and, when they are unable to do that, warping information as much as they possibly can (by emphasizing certain pieces of people's play and downplaying others). By staying silent here, you're doing your job for them - how am I supposed to trust someone who doesn't talk/contribute/or share their thoughts? How are you supposed to trust someone like creppy when they haven't actually shared any of their thoughts?

I've played with plenty of people who find themselves getting lynched more and more frequently the more they talk, but you can't protect yourself from being mislynched by just not talking - it might keep you out of the conversation early, but later in the game when POE kicks in, you'll find yourself getting edged out frequently as people realize there's nothing you've done that's fakeable from a halfway competent scumplayer. By learning to communicate more effectively (whether that's in presenting your thoughts or simply defending them once you've presented them), you can be more influential and connect with others in a way where they'll be able to trust you late game. I do not think that there's a single person who's attempted to play mafia who has realized their full potential by not talking.

Does any of this make sense?

[Nachomamma8]

Also, do you agree with what I said about the two other people I mentioned in #34 or do you think that I'm off base there as well?

[Nachomamma8]

About the ‘Hello’ — If we consider it to be an RVS vote (which is reasonable), then I don’t read it really as alignment-indicative; it’s about the same as writing nothing.

I agree with this, but, if I'm reading correctly, ofrhz doesn't. I don't understand why.
Ofrhz - if Alciel just naked voted Harambey, would you have the same reaction to his post? Why/why not?

He didn't state a reason so I voted for him, same reason why you're asking me thid. Didn't state mine since no one really asked him why for his vote.

"He didn't state a reason, so I voted for him" - why do you have a policy of voting people who don't state reasons?
"Didn't state mine since no one really asked him why for his vote" - I don't understand what other people's reactions to him has to do with how you approach him here; it seems a bit backwards to me. Like, I could see if you were voting for someone and didn't feel like stating reasons because they've already been said but I don't understanding voting someone and NOT giving reasons because no one else seemed to see or care about the same thing you did. Help me out?

I'm not really sure the wagon here is actually putting pressure on, though, because it's clearly a pressure wagon surely that defeats the purpose?

Was this a response to ofrhz's #23?

[Nachomamma8]

VOTE: Etromin
Serious vote

Also - if you have a reason for voting here, why not just state your reason with the vote?

[Harambey180]

Vote: Harambey180

I think the fact that he hasn't posted yet is strange. He's been active onsite for a while after the L-1 wagon formed, and I think that it's likelier that he is scum who is avoiding posting for a little while in the hopes that what's mostly just a baseless wagon will die out than town who saw the wagon form and had nothing to say/could find nothing to address.

Other fairly equivalent votes I could see myself making are Alciel and creppy. I don't believe that either have them have done more than the bare minimum to play the game, which is sometimes a sign of scum who is uncomfortable.

Alciel's post #29 is really odd and I don't get what point he's trying to bring across.

creppy hasn't done anything besides RVS but inactivity isn't a thing to put a lot of weight on since we're still on page 2.

[Nachomamma8]

In other news, this is my first game after a long break - I took the long break mostly because my schedule is pretty fucked and it's hard to find time to play the way I want to play in between.

I work overnights in a job that's pretty physical (so no playing at work, and sometimes don't have the mental capacity to play when I'm home) and I don't always know what schedule I have until I'm at work, which that means I expect my posting will be fairly sporadic (going without 24 hours at a time without the posting is a thing that will probably happen more than once this game), and also means that I will probably prefer to use a decent amount of the deadline each day. If how much I'm contributing ever becomes a significant problem, just let me know - happy to replace out if my level of contribution is just not enough or frustrating.

[Harambey180]

In other news, this is my first game after a long break - I took the long break mostly because my schedule is pretty fucked and it's hard to find time to play the way I want to play in between.

I work overnights in a job that's pretty physical (so no playing at work, and sometimes don't have the mental capacity to play when I'm home) and I don't always know what schedule I have until I'm at work, which that means I expect my posting will be fairly sporadic (going without 24 hours at a time without the posting is a thing that will probably happen more than once this game), and also means that I will probably prefer to use a decent amount of the deadline each day. If how much I'm contributing ever becomes a significant problem, just let me know - happy to replace out if my level of contribution is just not enough or frustrating.

Personally, I think, right now, you're doing more than needed, so keep it up if you can.

[Alciel]

"He didn't state a reason, so I voted for him" - why do you have a policy of voting people who don't state reasons?
"Didn't state mine since no one really asked him why for his vote" - I don't understand what other people's reactions to him has to do with how you approach him here; it seems a bit backwards to me. Like, I could see if you were voting for someone and didn't feel like stating reasons because they've already been said but I don't understanding voting someone and NOT giving reasons because no one else seemed to see or care about the same thing you did. Help me out?

His vote didn't have a reason compared to others that at least posted something though nothing concrete, it's my first game and I'm still testing the waters, I'm also waiting if someone would question my lack of reasoning since I don't know if not giving reasoning is that common or not.

[Harambey180]

"He didn't state a reason, so I voted for him" - why do you have a policy of voting people who don't state reasons?
"Didn't state mine since no one really asked him why for his vote" - I don't understand what other people's reactions to him has to do with how you approach him here; it seems a bit backwards to me. Like, I could see if you were voting for someone and didn't feel like stating reasons because they've already been said but I don't understanding voting someone and NOT giving reasons because no one else seemed to see or care about the same thing you did. Help me out?

His vote didn't have a reason compared to others that at least posted something though nothing concrete, it's my first game and I'm still testing the waters, I'm also waiting if someone would question my lack of reasoning since I don't know if not giving reasoning is that common or not.

Giving (good) reasoning will often make others trust you more than when you don't give any reasoning at all.
My vote was a random vote as we were in RVS, which stands for Random Voting Stage. In my opinion, random votes don't necessarily need reasoning. I mean, it's random, what would a reasoning be for a random vote?
Most people say something else like 'Hello everyone!' or a 'joke reasoning' as to why their random voted player should get more votes. Eventually there will be one player that has the most votes at some point. That person will then usually speak up so that the players have something to discuss about and over time, people will form reads. Then players will argue about each others' reads and posts and get someone lynched. This all started with the random voting stage.
I was that 'player' this time that got the most votes. So I had to speak to persuade people I'm a Townie (which, in fact, I am) and vote elsewhere. At this point, most players will start to discuss my recent posts, and probably the ones of Nachomamma and I guess yours too.

I don't know how familiar you are with mafia games so I approached you here as if you're pretty new to the game. I hope this is okay as how it is.

[Etromin]

I'm not really sure the wagon here is actually putting pressure on, though, because it's clearly a pressure wagon surely that defeats the purpose?

Was this a response to ofrhz's #23?

No, post 24. Can't quote easily on phone, but it said something about Harambey's wagon being there to elicit a reaction.

[Ircher]

I know I said I would post today... But I really got caught up with doing school work and didn’t get a chance to.

[vulcan logician]

The wagon formed on Harambe on page 1 is not going to do a good job of pressuring him. The first wagon to form usually dissolves, so scum!Harambe would have nothing to fear from it. I do like to use day 1 to put pressure on people though. There are not many ways to get info for town on day 1, but putting questions to people under threat of lynch is a viable strategy for town.

My townread of crepppy was a joke. Anyone taking it seriously strikes me as odd for doing so. Look at the reasoning I used.

More to come from me. Stay tuned.

[Huntress]

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