BulletNLynchProof's 9p pre-designed setup

[Performer]

That sounds nice, but wouldn't it be too much power if it's a 9p setup?

I agree with callfor that the informed scum with goon vs 2-shot doc, even-night jk, and n3 vig seems balanced enough for a 10p mini normal.

[BNL]

Hmm idk, I feel that I want to buff the JK...

[BNL]

Oh hey this has been in limbo for a while

Personally I feel that the current setup is a bit unfun and I’m not proud of it

[Performer]

hm...

[Performer]

Were you thinking of making a few changes to it?

[implosion]

I'll ping this because I'm bad and forgot to un-advertise the 9p setup that Micc took, and so there's a request to mod a 9p setup that I don't have available anymore!

[callforjudgement]

I guess the situation at the moment is that BNL doesn't really like the setup as it is, and BNL and I disagree on what the balance should be. So I assumed that this had been abandoned.

Performer and I apparently agree that the setup in 22 is runnable, and there hasn't been a counter-offer from BNL yet. So if there's an emergency, you could probably run that.

[callforjudgement]

Oh, note that that setup's a 10p, an extra player got added at some point.

I don't think we've been looking at 9p variants of this setup for a while. I could try to design one of those if you need it?

[BNL]

Oh uh...

[BNL]

Sorry I saw RC changing the setup size and I think that was casually allowed

Uh...

[callforjudgement]

It's happened before. We just correct the setup size before allowing mods to choose it.

The situation here is unusual in that apparently a 9p got advertised by mistake.

[implosion]

yeah casually changing the setup size is allowed, i just blanked and forgot that it had happened!

it's fine though, no real pressure, schadd_'s game is in signups next anyway.

[BNL]

Mafia Informed Goon (player is a Vanilla Townie)
Mafia Goon
Town 2-Shot Doctor
Town Even-Night Jailkeeper
Town Night 3 Vigilante
5 VTs

If you think this is an OK setup, then I’m ok with letting this being used. I just feel I haven’t contributed enough to this to be called my setup.

Having said that, I have another setup which borrows some ideas from this but is different enough that I feel it will be more appropriate to abandon this and create a new review thread instead.

[implosion]

Sure. Let's just call that 10p setup this thread's setup, and if you want to then just in to make another :p

[Performer]

Performer and I apparently agree that the setup in 22 is runnable

Confirming that yes I agree as well

[Performer]

if you want to then just in to make another

Agree with this as well for BnL !

[BNL]

Hey actually I've thought of a way to salvage this setup in a different direction

[BNL]

I'd like to return this to a 9p and try the following:

1 Mafia Goon
1 Informed Mafia Goon "Player is VT"
1 Town Jailkeeper
1 Town Doctor
1 Town Doctor Enabler
4 Vanilla Townies

[callforjudgement]

I think that's in the balanced range? My normal concern would be massclaim, but there's nothing particularly town-indicative about Doctor Enabler in this setup (it's believable as a scum role, even if you know all the other roles).

I am concerned with swing – if the Informed Goon dies early town has a huge advantage – but that may be close to unavoidable. (I'm assuming that Informed flips as "Informed" without giving the actual information, just like Cop flips as "Cop" without showing results.)

I would suggest adding an interaction that prevents the Jailkeeper from being protected (probably Ascetic, it gives away less about the setup than Macho does). Otherwise, town will be rewarded rather than punished if the Jailkeeper ends up having to claim early. (This is something that pretty much needs to be done as standard, I think; whenever I miss this potential interaction it seems to end up causing problems.) Actually, cross-protecting town power roles seem to cause problems generally if one of them is claimed; the issue is that scum tend to shoot at the claimed role, miss, and the unclaimed role then later has an opportunity to save someone else for a mislynch. This problem probably affects the 10p above too (I wasn't aware of it at the time I approved it as balanced).

So my proposal:

1 Mafia Goon
1 Informed Mafia Goon ("

player

is a Vanilla Townie.", with

player

selected at random from among the VTs)
1 Ascetic Town Jailkeeper
1 Town Doctor
1 Town Doctor Enabler
4 Vanilla Townies

There still could be a problem if a town power role other than the Jailkeeper claims early, though (scum shoot it, and it gets protected by the JK or Doctor or both). At least scum will know that they have to aim elsewhere the next day, and things aren't a disaster until a second protective hits.

[BNL]

That's a good suggestion. I was afraid it was a bit townsided, and was considering making the Enabler ascetic, but I think your suggestion here is better. I was thinking if the Enabler claimed and the Mafia attempted to kill it may cause problems, but Doctor Enabler claiming hints to the Mafia that there is a Doctor so it isn't an issue.

I am satisfied with your proposed setup, and it's not too modified so I feel comfortable calling it my setup, and I'll just wait for Performer now.

[Performer]

Strongly agree with the addition of Ascetic modifier , and to the Jailkeeper at that! Then the doc and jk can't protect each other regardless of when they claim .

I like the ascetic jk not just because there can't be a doc and jk protecting each other on n1 and probably post n1, but also if the scum find out there is an ascetic jk, they can probably make that slot look scummy. "That sounds like a scum roleblocker instead, since they claimed ascetic jk!"

This setup is interesting. No modifications from me.

[BNL]

Actually I do have one concern: would it be a problem if the Doctor claims early but gets protected by the Jailkeeper?

Otherwise, it seems like no one has a problem with the setup and it’s ready to be submitted

[callforjudgement]

I'm concerned about that too, but I'm not sure there's any fix available, so we might just have to risk it. (Doctor's one of the roles that's least likely to claim and expect a protection, at least.)

[Performer]

Hm...if it's a concern - what about a Novice Ascetic Jailkeeper rather than Ascetic Jk?

Then if the doc claims on d1 for instance, at least the jk can't just protect the doc for town easy-way-out, on n1.

[BNL]

I think Novice is too much of a nerf, and it makes the game scumsided.