RadiantCowbells's Mini Normal Review, January 2020

[mastina]

how does this work if the JoAT dies before the gunsmith?

Backup Gunsmith doesn't inherit the JOAT because it's a backup to a Gunsmith, not to a JOAT.

[RadiantCowbells]

so, do you pass it?

[mastina]

but it would be a good fakeclaim

ok

Gunsmith
Backup Gunsmith
JoAT [Gunsmith, Jailkeeper, Doctor, Rolestopper]
Vigilante
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
Mafia Gunsmith
Mafia Backup Gunsmith
Mafia Day 99 Gunsmith

This setup? I'm a bit concerned about the balance. Not the number of gunsmiths, mind you; that is pretty much, yes, the limit to the number of gunsmiths that I'd feel would be Normal and more than this wouldn't be. But I'm a little concerned that the mafia are too strong, here. They have the ability to identify every single town PR in the game, every town player is unable to differentiate between scum and PR, and the scum have a reasonably safe fakeclaim avenue to pursue; the setup is asking for the scum to win it an unhealthily large number of times.

[implosion]

ping bc there might not actually be a game that can go into signups until this passes!

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh

Ok I'll make a real game

Gunsmith
Even-Night Vig
Odd-Night Jailkeeper
Universal Backup
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT

Goon
Mafia Neighbourizer
Mafia Deputy

[mastina]

Do we have stats on how strong Mafia Neighborizer is these days?
For the longest time, Mafia Neighborizer as a role was literally one of the strongest scum roles in existence, pretty much stronger than a roleblocker, ninja, or the like, in terms of being basically a free scum win.

If the role is still that strong, I would be a bit concerned about the setup as a consequence being potentially scumsided.
If the role is no longer that strong, if it is a fairly weak scum PR, then this would definitely be an instant-pass on balance and Normalcy.
Basically, whether the setup's balanced or not depends on how strong Mafia Neighborizer is for a scumteam right now--if it is as strong as it has traditionally been, setup is scumsided; if it is

not

as strong as it has traditionally been, setup is incredibly balanced and pretty much right dead on the money.

Basically the pass/not pass on balance depends on if Mafia Neighborizer is a strong scum role or a weaker scum role. Strong scum role, setup is too scumsided; weaker scum role, setup is perfectly balanced.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's meant to be somewhat negative utility for scum actually in that it confirms that you have no gun as town

[RadiantCowbells]

I actually estimate this game is decently scumsided unless town figures out scum don't have a doctor so.

[mastina]

I actually estimate this game is decently scumsided unless town figures out scum don't have a doctor so.

Yes that would be a problem for passing.

[RadiantCowbells]

When I said decently I meant 42% at standard play

What do you want, informed gunsmith (mafia has no traitor or doctor)

[mastina]

What do you want, informed gunsmith (mafia has no traitor or doctor)

That'd actually help them significantly, yes; I'd say that bit of information would probably help push it into being close enough to balanced.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok

Role PMs later.

[implosion]

Is this a pass?

this is going into signups once it's officially /pass'd i believe

[RadiantCowbells]

Informed Gunsmith
Even-Night Vig
Odd-Night Jailkeeper
Universal Backup
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT

Goon
Mafia Neighbourizer
Mafia Deputy

[RadiantCowbells]

Welcome! You are an Informed Gunsmith.
You know that the Mafia have no doctors or traitors.
Each night you may target a player and determine whether they have a gun in flavor or not.
In conjunction with the information you already have, this means that anyone who has no gun is

Town

and anyone who does is either

Mafia

or a Town Power Role that possesses a gun.
A full list of Town Power Roles with guns can be found here.
You win when the

Mafia

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Thoughts on this as a role pm?

[implosion]

oh man i am kinda torn on that. I think it's probably a good idea in theory but bad in practice due to standardization, because there's a definite world in which the person who gets it mentions (paraphrasing) that their role pm mentioned that kind of thing, and then that leads to speculation over role PM phrasing which is an avoid at all costs type thing in normals.

[RadiantCowbells]

hmm

maybe it's time to establish a new precedent regarding gunsmith role pms because as you pointed out it's something of an arcane role

but ok i'll do normal role pms tomorrow

[mastina]

Is this a pass?

Yeah my bad. I was going to ask for RC to include the role PMs before passing it but forgot and since RC did that anyway, it is indeed a pass.

[RadiantCowbells]

Welcome! You are an

Informed Gunsmith

.
You know that the

Mafia

have no Doctors or Traitors.
Each night you may target a player and determine whether they have a gun in flavor or not.
You win when the

Mafia

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Welcome! You are an

Even-Night Vigilante

.
Each even-numbered night, you may target a player and kill them.
You win when the

Mafia

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Welcome! You are an

Odd-Night Jailkeeper

.
Each odd-numbered night, you may target a player and jailkeep them, roleblocking them and protecting them from all kills.
You win when the

Mafia

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Welcome! You are a

Universal Backup

.
Whenever the first

Town

power role dies, you will inherit that power role including its modifiers.
You win when the

Mafia

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Welcome! You are a

Vanilla Townie

.
You have your voice and your vote with which to hunt the Mafia.
You win when the

Mafia

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Welcome! You are a

Mafia Goon

.
Each night, you may discuss the game with your team here.
You also have a factional nightkill which can be submitted via PM or in your PT.
You win when the

Town

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Welcome! You are a

Mafia Neighbourizer

.
Each night, you may discuss the game with your team here.
You can target a player each night, adding them to your neighbourhood which can be found here.
You also have a factional nightkill which can be submitted via PM or in your PT. You cannot perform this while you perform another action.
You win when the

Town

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Welcome! You are a

Mafia Deputy

.
Each night, you may discuss the game with your team here.
When a

Mafia

aligned Cop dies, you will inherit the role.
You also have a factional nightkill which can be submitted via PM or in your PT.
You win when the

Town

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

[mastina]

Yep, those roles look good to my eye so that should be it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Welcome! You are an

Informed Gunsmith

.
You know that the

Mafia

have no Doctors or Traitors.
Each night you may target a player and determine whether they have a gun in flavor or not.
You win when the

Mafia

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Welcome! You are an

Even-Night Vigilante

.
Each even-numbered night, you may target a player and kill them.
You win when the

Mafia

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Welcome! You are an

Odd-Night Jailkeeper

.
Each odd-numbered night, you may target a player and jailkeep them, roleblocking them and protecting them from all kills.
You win when the

Mafia

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Welcome! You are a

Universal Backup

.
Whenever the first

Town

power role dies, you will inherit that power role including its modifiers.
You win when the

Mafia

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Welcome! You are a

Vanilla Townie

.
You have your voice and your vote with which to hunt the Mafia.
You win when the

Mafia

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Welcome! You are a

Mafia Goon

.
Each night, you may discuss the game with your team here.
You also have a factional nightkill which can be submitted via PM or in your PT.
You win when the

Town

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Welcome! You are a

Mafia Neighbourizer

.
Each night, you may discuss the game with your team here.
You can target a player each night, adding them to your neighbourhood which can be found here.
You also have a factional nightkill which can be submitted via PM or in your PT. You cannot perform this while you perform another action.
You win when the

Town

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Welcome! You are a

Mafia Deputy

.
Each night, you may discuss the game with your team here.
When a

Mafia

aligned Cop dies, you will inherit the role.
You also have a factional nightkill which can be submitted via PM or in your PT.
You win when the

Town

have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

[RadiantCowbells]

(resposting with the URLs fixed)