Mafiascum.net

All,

I am so sorry I am so late to the thread - you've all given me so much to think about, so it has taken me a little while to gather my thoughts and process it all.

One advantage of waiting until there has been a bit of back and forth is that one can start to get a sense of how the game is going to go, and start to make some initial reads. Lots to unpack here, so I'll get straight to it.

In post 6, MiniMegabyte wrote:First!

I don't like this post. Clearly, post 6 is not post 1, and lying to us straight out of the bad is not a good look. In fact, I propose that we should make it a sort of agreement between us that if any of us are caught lying - about anything - we should give strong consideration to eliminating said person as a result. In addition, the whole post - the content, the tone, the context in which it was posted just gives me a general sense of unease. It was a gut read initially, but I think it's clear I was considering as at least a slight leanscum here already. Hence far, I have to say the rest of the players are null reads, which considering how advanced the game state is we can start to stop chucking random votes around, this took me a surprise - I was about to say we have some very good mafia players here, but then it occurred to me that if you were truly that skilled you would have convinced me to give you at least a slight townread by now.

In post 8, MiniMegabyte wrote: (inserts shaking hands emoji here)

Ahh, and here is it; the smoking gun that grants some confidence to that earlier gut read. I am aware of the existence of confirmation bias, so I have gone through all the contributions has made very carefully several times to try and guard against that, but no - is a strong scum read at this point. Let me explain.

is clearly trying to insinuate that she has no personal knowledge of , particularly as this comes of the back of explicit (and as it turned out - also false) statement that they don't know in the game. Also of interest is the actual emoji chosen here - a handshake. Between two persons. To the exclusion of the rest of the group. See where I am going with this? She also specifically and pointedly says "Nice to meet !" instead of "nice to meet ". We all know English is one of those languages where 'you' can refer to a singular or an individual. Using it here would be natural, avoid the wavy red line most modern day browsers would assign to the word, and give her the benefit of the ambiguity if anyone paying attention catches it. Instead, we get the informal 'ya', standing in contrast to 'y'all', which to me is a further indication the introduction is addressed specifically to and she wants us to know it.

The question now becomes why? In my view, the only explanation that makes any sort of sense is she wants us to think, even if only subconsciously, that this over the top, public performance is the first time these two have ever came in to contact, and they most definitely have already said hi to each other in the scum thread. No sir, definitely not! Nothing to see here folks! Shake my hand and smile!

You might think that this makes her scum partner then, and the game is solved. Putting aside my feelings towards how I would feel if my first ever game of Mafia was solved and ended on the first IRL day, I don't actually think this is the case. I think knew that someone might pick up on the vibes between the two here and our first thought would be that they are scum partners. But equally, perhaps that what they just want us to think? I wish there was some term to describe this, but I've checked the wiki inside out and can't find one, so I have invented one, both to refer to this situation and the approach I think we should take to try and come to some sort of conclusion as to how to deal with it. I call it Written Information Follows Overt Meta (WIFOM) - in other words, when what you see written down is in line with what would be expected from your experience you should assume that it is true. No sane scum player wants to associate themselves so strongly with their scum partner so obviously and early, so when we see it happening, we should assume that ISN'T what is happening, that makes no sense. Thus, this is all a big play, and we can actually rule out as the other scum. As an aside, feel free to use that acronym in your future posts, but do try to remember who invented it and give credit every now and again.

There is the open question as to why also lied about their association with other players, but I am going to assume for the moment that was a legitimate mistake - I know what I said about eliminating proven liars, but I don't think they would be so fast to walk it back. In contrast, I think fully expected that "First!" lie to slip under the radar.

So; townread, scumread,b] [/b]null. I think it's pretty clear given that set of reads where my vote should go. I'm going to put my vote where it obviously belongs, and strongly feel that we should make them the elimination for the day. Obviously there is quite a bit of time left before deadline, and I would like to see some more discussion, but I will put my vote on them and see what happens with the rest of the votes. Being the first, I won't be able to hammer, but I want to make it clear that I would be prepared to hammer, and it will take a lot now to convince me to switch my vote.

With all that said: VOTE: T3

In post 25, Val89 wrote:All,

I am so sorry I am so late to the thread - you've all given me so much to think about, so it has taken me a little while to gather my thoughts and process it all.

One advantage of waiting until there has been a bit of back and forth is that one can start to get a sense of how the game is going to go, and start to make some initial reads. Lots to unpack here, so I'll get straight to it.

In post 6, MiniMegabyte wrote:First!

I don't like this post. Clearly, post 6 is not post 1, and lying to us straight out of the bad is not a good look. In fact, I propose that we should make it a sort of agreement between us that if any of us are caught lying - about anything - we should give strong consideration to eliminating said person as a result. In addition, the whole post - the content, the tone, the context in which it was posted just gives me a general sense of unease. It was a gut read initially, but I think it's clear I was considering

MiniMegabyte

as at least a slight leanscum here already. Hence far, I have to say the rest of the players are null reads, which considering how advanced the game state is we can start to stop chucking random votes around, this took me a surprise - I was about to say we have some very good mafia players here, but then it occurred to me that if you were truly that skilled you would have convinced me to give you at least a slight townread by now.

In post 8, MiniMegabyte wrote: (inserts shaking hands emoji here)

Ahh, and here is it; the smoking gun that grants some confidence to that earlier gut read. I am aware of the existence of confirmation bias, so I have gone through all the contributions

MiniMegabyte

has made very carefully several times to try and guard against that, but no -

MiniMegabyte

is a strong scum read at this point. Let me explain.

MiniMegabyte

is clearly trying to insinuate that she has no personal knowledge of

VFP

, particularly as this comes of the back of

VFPs

explicit (and as it turned out - also false) statement that they don't know

anyone

in the game. Also of interest is the actual emoji chosen here - a handshake. Between two persons. To the exclusion of the rest of the group. See where I am going with this? She also specifically and pointedly says "Nice to meet

ya

!" instead of "nice to meet

you

". We all know English is one of those languages where 'you' can refer to a singular or an individual. Using it here would be natural, avoid the wavy red line most modern day browsers would assign to the word, and give her the benefit of the ambiguity if anyone paying attention catches it. Instead, we get the informal 'ya', standing in contrast to 'y'all', which to me is a further indication the introduction is addressed specifically to

VFP

and she wants us to know it.

The question now becomes why? In my view, the only explanation that makes any sort of sense is she wants us to think, even if only subconsciously, that this over the top, public performance is the first time these two have ever came in to contact, and they most definitely have

NOT

already said hi to each other in the scum thread. No sir, definitely not! Nothing to see here folks! Shake my hand and smile!

You might think that this makes

VFP

her scum partner then, and the game is solved. Putting aside my feelings towards how I would feel if my first ever game of Mafia was solved and ended on the first IRL day, I don't actually think this is the case. I think

MiniMegabyte

knew that someone might pick up on the vibes between the two here and our first thought would be that they are scum partners. But equally, perhaps that what they just want us to think? I wish there was some term to describe this, but I've checked the wiki inside out and can't find one, so I have invented one, both to refer to this situation and the approach I think we should take to try and come to some sort of conclusion as to how to deal with it. I call it Written Information Follows Overt Meta (WIFOM) - in other words, when what you see written down is in line with what would be expected from your experience you should assume that it is true. No sane scum player wants to associate themselves so strongly with their scum partner so obviously and early, so when we see it happening, we should assume that ISN'T what is happening, that makes no sense. Thus, this is all a big play, and we can actually rule out

VFP

as the other scum. As an aside, feel free to use that acronym in your future posts, but do try to remember who invented it and give credit every now and again.

There is the open question as to why

VFP

also lied about their association with other players, but I am going to assume for the moment that was a legitimate mistake - I know what I said about eliminating proven liars, but I don't think they would be so fast to walk it back. In contrast, I think

MiniMegabyte

fully expected that "First!" lie to slip under the radar.

So;

VFP

townread,

MiniMegabyte

scumread,b]

everyone else

[/b]null. I think it's pretty clear given that set of reads where my vote should go. I'm going to put my vote where it obviously belongs, and strongly feel that we should make them the elimination for the day. Obviously there is quite a bit of time left before deadline, and I would like to see some more discussion, but I will put my vote on them and see what happens with the rest of the votes. Being the first, I won't be able to hammer, but I want to make it clear that I would be prepared to hammer, and it will take a lot now to convince me to switch my vote.

With all that said: VOTE: T3

holy shit, another flailing scum, is mini + val the scum team?

In post 15, GrandpaMo wrote:In post 13, Cook wrote:
CRASH

....

flailing scum

You know, was the other person you call 'flailing scum' not more than one page ago. Do we collectively think scum would pay so little attention to the game they would forget who they were calling scum from one page to the next? I'm not so sure myself. Slight towncred for this. On the other hand, calling 3 people scum and not putting your vote on any of them seems scummy, so I guess it's still a nullread over all.

It will, however, be interesting to hear inject some thoughts on the implied case you make against them in this post, though - don't think I didn't see it. If you feel that way, you should come straight out and say it, in my opinion.

In post 7, VFP wrote:Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

[visible existing]

For every word Val posted, I'm going to give 1 town point to.
To every word less Grampa posted on his first post to Vals post, I'm giving 1 scum point.

Locked town at 100 town points
Locked scum at 100 scum points.

Okay, Grampa is at 7.

I got to 328 and thats enough for me.

But I think Val can be locked town and Grampa locked scum.

In post 25, Val89 wrote:All,

I am so sorry I am so late to the thread - you've all given me so much to think about, so it has taken me a little while to gather my thoughts and process it all.

One advantage of waiting until there has been a bit of back and forth is that one can start to get a sense of how the game is going to go, and start to make some initial reads. Lots to unpack here, so I'll get straight to it.

In post 6, MiniMegabyte wrote:First!

I don't like this post. Clearly, post 6 is not post 1, and lying to us straight out of the bad is not a good look. In fact, I propose that we should make it a sort of agreement between us that if any of us are caught lying - about anything - we should give strong consideration to eliminating said person as a result. In addition, the whole post - the content, the tone, the context in which it was posted just gives me a general sense of unease. It was a gut read initially, but I think it's clear I was considering

MiniMegabyte

as at least a slight leanscum here already. Hence far, I have to say the rest of the players are null reads, which considering how advanced the game state is we can start to stop chucking random votes around, this took me a surprise - I was about to say we have some very good mafia players here, but then it occurred to me that if you were truly that skilled you would have convinced me to give you at least a slight townread by now.

In post 8, MiniMegabyte wrote: (inserts shaking hands emoji here)

Ahh, and here is it; the smoking gun that grants some confidence to that earlier gut read. I am aware of the existence of confirmation bias, so I have gone through all the contributions

MiniMegabyte

has made very carefully several times to try and guard against that, but no -

MiniMegabyte

is a strong scum read at this point. Let me explain.

MiniMegabyte

is clearly trying to insinuate that she has no personal knowledge of

VFP

, particularly as this comes of the back of

VFPs

explicit (and as it turned out - also false) statement that they don't know

anyone

in the game. Also of interest is the actual emoji chosen here - a handshake. Between two persons. To the exclusion of the rest of the group. See where I am going with this? She also specifically and pointedly says "Nice to meet

ya

!" instead of "nice to meet

you

". We all know English is one of those languages where 'you' can refer to a singular or an individual. Using it here would be natural, avoid the wavy red line most modern day browsers would assign to the word, and give her the benefit of the ambiguity if anyone paying attention catches it. Instead, we get the informal 'ya', standing in contrast to 'y'all', which to me is a further indication the introduction is addressed specifically to

VFP

and she wants us to know it.

The question now becomes why? In my view, the only explanation that makes any sort of sense is she wants us to think, even if only subconsciously, that this over the top, public performance is the first time these two have ever came in to contact, and they most definitely have

NOT

already said hi to each other in the scum thread. No sir, definitely not! Nothing to see here folks! Shake my hand and smile!

You might think that this makes

VFP

her scum partner then, and the game is solved. Putting aside my feelings towards how I would feel if my first ever game of Mafia was solved and ended on the first IRL day, I don't actually think this is the case. I think

MiniMegabyte

knew that someone might pick up on the vibes between the two here and our first thought would be that they are scum partners. But equally, perhaps that what they just want us to think? I wish there was some term to describe this, but I've checked the wiki inside out and can't find one, so I have invented one, both to refer to this situation and the approach I think we should take to try and come to some sort of conclusion as to how to deal with it. I call it Written Information Follows Overt Meta (WIFOM) - in other words, when what you see written down is in line with what would be expected from your experience you should assume that it is true. No sane scum player wants to associate themselves so strongly with their scum partner so obviously and early, so when we see it happening, we should assume that ISN'T what is happening, that makes no sense. Thus, this is all a big play, and we can actually rule out

VFP

as the other scum. As an aside, feel free to use that acronym in your future posts, but do try to remember who invented it and give credit every now and again.

There is the open question as to why

VFP

also lied about their association with other players, but I am going to assume for the moment that was a legitimate mistake - I know what I said about eliminating proven liars, but I don't think they would be so fast to walk it back. In contrast, I think

MiniMegabyte

fully expected that "First!" lie to slip under the radar.

So;

VFP

townread,

MiniMegabyte

scumread,b]

everyone else

[/b]null. I think it's pretty clear given that set of reads where my vote should go. I'm going to put my vote where it obviously belongs, and strongly feel that we should make them the elimination for the day. Obviously there is quite a bit of time left before deadline, and I would like to see some more discussion, but I will put my vote on them and see what happens with the rest of the votes. Being the first, I won't be able to hammer, but I want to make it clear that I would be prepared to hammer, and it will take a lot now to convince me to switch my vote.

With all that said: VOTE: T3

Oh no! Pressure!
What do I fakeclaim.....
I know!
Innocent Child!

T3 might actually be town. So that's good to know.

mod please reveal me as innocent child if you do i will give you a free cookie!

Yea so. What in the world. JamesTheNames' page 2 prediction. It's T3 and Val89.
VOTE: Val89

In post 35, JamesTheNames wrote:JamesTheNames' page 2 prediction. It's T3 and Val89.

Coming out strong, I see. Care to explain, or are you just going to throw it out there and hope somebody else does the work for you?

In any case, as you can see, I am a fan of getting right to the heart of it, and your page 2 solve is just sort of thing I like to see; so I make a public commitment right now - pinky swear, no takebacks. if you are right, I'll send you the hat pictured in my avatar. While I don't own the exact one pictured, I do own that exact style and colour. I'll even sign the lining, if you want!

Unless T3 improved a lot from the last time we played, he doesn't look like scum based on his meta. That said, I'm not ruling him out entirely since meta does change over time, but we'll see!

In post 36, Val89 wrote:

In post 35, JamesTheNames wrote:JamesTheNames' page 2 prediction. It's T3 and Val89.

Coming out strong, I see. Care to explain, or are you just going to throw it out there and hope somebody else does the work for you?

In any case, as you can see, I am a fan of getting right to the heart of it, and your page 2 solve is just sort of thing I like to see; so I make a public commitment right now - pinky swear, no takebacks. if you are right, I'll send you the hat pictured in my avatar. While I don't own the exact one pictured, I do own that exact style and colour. I'll even sign the lining, if you want!

Not to be that person but I don't think that's allowed particularly. Also talking about a page 2 solve like that huh, that is one way to class your post right? I can't quite say hypocrisy is a scum tell buuuuuut. Rvs is rvs.

Oh well. I am satisfied with my vote.

In post 12, Zyla wrote:Hello all!
Nice to see you again James and T3

Or is it? Are you on the mafia team this time around VOTE: James?

I'm a roleblocker, you're the rolecop and T3 is also a rolecop have you already forgotten?

James noo keep it in the PT! /jk

In post 38, JamesTheNames wrote: Not to be that person but I don't think that's allowed particularly.

If that is in response to my offer, I read the rules the mod posted in the first few posts and couldn't find anything that appeared germane, but I am prepared to take your word for it. If I have done something not allowed particularly, I apologise. Rescinded.

In post 38, JamesTheNames wrote: Also talking about a page 2 solve like that huh, that is one way to class your post right? I can't quite say hypocrisy is a scum tell buuuuuut. Rvs is rvs.

I should clarify, "your page 2 solve is just sort of thing I like to see" was a serious statement. I like the fact you came out with a solve straight off the bat - and I was attempting to encourage more of it. Asking if you cared to explain was an attempt to elicit further information - would imply you had some sort of strong reaction one way or another and I am unclear if this is an example of 'people will usually vote for non-serious reasons' as per the Key Concepts, or if you had something serious you took issue with.

I'm not seeing any sort of hypocrisy at all. Perhaps you could elaborate?

In post 37, Zyla wrote:Unless T3 improved a lot from the last time we played, he doesn't look like scum based on his meta. That said, I'm not ruling him out entirely since meta does change over time, but we'll see!

I appreciate the sentiment but I sincerely doubt anyone can form an actual meta read on page 2.

In post 7, VFP wrote:Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

Hm. As an SE, I find it surprising you'd open with this. Why not a random vote, or some questions to get the ball rolling?

In post 13, Cook wrote:

Spoiler:

CRASH

The skylight breaks open.

Down on a bungee cord, Cook comes sailing down in all her majesty. Into an earpiece, he responds to someone, "

See what I told you? It worked,

" before addressing the rest of the shocked patrons.

Okay, first of all, very rude initial vote on me. Second, VFP, you've played with me before, I was just running the game. Sorry about the misgame by the way. And the infrequent votecounts.

it was my first time, okay?

Now, to the rest of you. Hello, I'm

Cook

, and I play Mafia sometimes. Pronouns – basically all of them, haven't explored neopronouns. There's very little way to disrespect 'em. Look for what I use to refer to myself.

I recognize VFP, T3, and MiniMegabyte. Welcome, newcomers!

Cook searches her coat. "

I left my random vote in here somewhere... AHA! Wait, don't want to cast a vote for T3...

"

Furious scribbling occurs.

VOTE: Zyla

I was curious and looked through some of your threads, of the ones that I checked, this is the only one with this type of opening. What made the cook decide to spice up the meal today?

In post 43, T3 wrote:

In post 37, Zyla wrote:Unless T3 improved a lot from the last time we played, he doesn't look like scum based on his meta. That said, I'm not ruling him out entirely since meta does change over time, but we'll see!

I appreciate the sentiment but I sincerely doubt anyone can form an actual meta read on page 2.

True, but it's worth seeing your response

In post 44, Zyla wrote:

In post 13, Cook wrote:

Spoiler:

CRASH

The skylight breaks open.

Down on a bungee cord, Cook comes sailing down in all her majesty. Into an earpiece, he responds to someone, "

See what I told you? It worked,

" before addressing the rest of the shocked patrons.

Okay, first of all, very rude initial vote on me. Second, VFP, you've played with me before, I was just running the game. Sorry about the misgame by the way. And the infrequent votecounts.

it was my first time, okay?

Now, to the rest of you. Hello, I'm

Cook

, and I play Mafia sometimes. Pronouns – basically all of them, haven't explored neopronouns. There's very little way to disrespect 'em. Look for what I use to refer to myself.

I recognize VFP, T3, and MiniMegabyte. Welcome, newcomers!

Cook searches her coat. "

I left my random vote in here somewhere... AHA! Wait, don't want to cast a vote for T3...

"

Furious scribbling occurs.

VOTE: Zyla

I was curious and looked through some of your threads, of the ones that I checked, this is the only one with this type of opening. What made the cook decide to spice up the meal today?

Kinda just felt like it.

Eh, fair enough

In post 40, JamesTheNames wrote:

In post 12, Zyla wrote:Hello all!
Nice to see you again James and T3

Or is it? Are you on the mafia team this time around VOTE: James?

I'm a roleblocker, you're the rolecop and T3 is also a rolecop have you already forgotten?

In post 31, VFP wrote:I got to 328 and thats enough for me.

But I think Val can be locked town and Grampa locked scum.

ok vfp is def town lol

In post 27, Val89 wrote:

In post 15, GrandpaMo wrote:In post 13, Cook wrote:
CRASH

....

flailing scum

You know,

Cook

was the other person you call 'flailing scum' not more than one page ago. Do we collectively think scum would pay so little attention to the game they would forget who they were calling scum from one page to the next? I'm not so sure myself. Slight towncred for this. On the other hand, calling 3 people scum and not putting your vote on any of them seems scummy, so I guess it's still a nullread over all.

It will, however, be interesting to hear

alstroemeria

inject some thoughts on the implied case you make against them in this post, though - don't think I didn't see it. If you feel that way, you should come straight out and say it, in my opinion.

i don't know if you were serious at all, but I wasn't in any of the posts I made expect for the VFP townread so far. Let me go ahead and actually analyze. You are the type that is more alignment indicitivate when pressure occurs. So if town never pressures you, you are most likely to get away as scum!Val.

First; I do not not know why you are taking any of my reads serious lol as "flailing scum" that should have gave you the hint especially when I replied to your post and realized it was just a BS post to make it seem long, with no content providing and voting someone other than your scumread xD, hence why I just said flailing scum as a joke. So please do not townread me nor scumread me for this.

Second; You contradict yourself in the second statement where you say, "On the other hand, calling 3 people scum and not putting your vote on any of them seems scummy, so I guess it's still a nullread over all. " -- I don't know if this was suppose to be a reaction post, but this quote looks bad for you. It was a RVS vote. Calling 3 people scum (technically two, I don't where you got three from), then continue to say it could be more of "null read" it seems like you were trying to manipulate the context into making it how I could be scum for this lol.

Please elaborate more on that because I don't know if you are trying to like get a specific reaction or what -- but if you deep analyze this quote, you can see how it's bad and you should admit that.