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Slaughter Hour: Grand Debut | Moderator Chat

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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:28 am
by Morning Tweet
Spoiler: outdated setup
Setup Design //

12 Contestants (Town) vs. 4 Stagehands (Scum)

"Secrets" contains hidden info known only to scum. Scum also has the ability to sabotage the game twice, activating some extra effect or bending the rules.

Players are not flipped until an entire event ends. So if someone is killed mid-way, their flip is delayed.

There are no daytimes or nighttimes, instead there are "Open Events" and "Closed Events".

An Open Event includes all players. A Closed Event only includes the noted players (players who are unmentioned may only spectate for the duration of that event).



EVENT 1 - CHAIR OF HONOUR // OPEN EVENT // 16 PLAYERS ALIVE

All contestants vote to place a player in a scary-looking chair covered in restraints, and most noticeably, has mechanical parts capable of killing whoever sits in it. It is heavily alluded to that this person will be forced to partake in a trial of some kind and it seems as if they will be executed.

Secrets
- The chair does not kill the nominee immediately. Instead, in the next game, they will decide on a player on their wagon to execute, and then the remaining players will vote on whether or not to kill the nominee. Players off the wagon will not be able to be executed. Town will learn in the next phase that you knew this all along.

Sabotage Effect
- The chair malfunctions after the hammer. A vote will be called for another player to be put in the chair. The player who was previously nominated cannot be chosen, in addition to up to three other players of scum's choice. Must be activated before a wagon is hammered.



EVENT 2 - OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! // CLOSED EVENT // 16 PLAYERS ALIVE (at game start)

The player who was nominated in the first game becomes the “Executioner”. The eight players on their wagon become the “Nobles”

The executioner must choose a player to lose their head in the guillotine. Only the executioner talks during this period. The noble losing their head is killed.

Afterwards, the living nobles vote on whether or not the executioner should also lose their head in the guillotine. All living nobles and the executioner can talk during this period.

Sabotage Effect
- The first execution fails, forcing the executioner to pick another person. Scum may cause a noble's guillotine of their choice to activate. This ability be activated before the first execution is locked in.



EVENT 3 - FATEFUL DUEL // OPEN EVENT // 13-15 PLAYERS ALIVE (at game start)

The contestants nominate two players to partake in a game of Russian roulette. There is a special feature to this nomination: whoever currently has the second-most votes when the first player is hammered (or when deadline ends) will be the second nominee. Additionally, in order for a player to be hammered, there must be A.) a majority on their wagon and B.) at least three players on the second biggest wagon.

Both players are placed in chairs facing each other. The second-place nominee gets the gun first. Scum chooses where the bullet starts within the chamber of six (so they decide which trigger pull the gun fires on).

Once the game begins, only the two players can speak. They take turns with the following choices:

- Fire the gun at self
- Fire the gun at opponent, and then at self
- Spin the barrel

Spinning the barrel randomly resets the bullet’s placement in the six-bullet chamber of the gun. Each player can only spin the barrel once.

The game ends after at least one person dies.

Secrets
- There is a fourth action available only to scum. You may rapid fire the gun at any target, including a target outside of the duel. This will kill them, but you will be killed as well for breaking the rules.

Sabotage Effect
- Spinning the barrel has no effect. This must be used sometime before the duel begins.




EVENT 4 - SPLIT DECISION // CLOSED EVENT // 11-14 PLAYERS ALIVE (at game start)

The contestants from the first-place wagon during Russian Roulette become members of “Team Pink”. The contestants from the second-place wagon and all other wagons and nonvoters become “Team Blue”. If there is an imbalance, players at the end of the first-place wagon will be added to Blue until team numbers are equal or Blue has one less. If Pink has too few, then the most recent non-voters will be added to Pink until the teams are equal or Pink has one less.

Both teams privately go into secret rooms to discuss and vote for a player on the other team to put up for elimination. This is all they are told.

Afterwards, the chosen players become “Suspect Pink”, and “Suspect Blue”, respectively.

The groups are combined and discussion resumes for all participants of this game. Players are informed of how the upcoming ballot works (with emphasis that defectors' votes carry greater weight, so you should try to convince the opposing team). After discussion ends (or enough players vote to end the discussion), a secret ballot is held. Every player is given the following cards:

- Hold
- Shift
- Pass

If Hold is selected, the player will cast one vote for the player they nominated with their team.
If Shift is selected, the player will cast two votes for the player the opposite team nominated.
If Pass is selected, the player will not cast any votes.

After the vote, the player with the most votes is killed. The total number of votes, and who voted where is not revealed publicly. It is publicly announed that scum knows who voted for who, however.

Secrets
- Scum is informed of how the ballot functions before nominations have even started. Scum is also informed of who votes for what after the votes are cast.

Sabotage Effect
- Scum can attach a player of their choice to Suspect Blue, as well as a player to Suspect Pink. The attached player will die alongside the suspect in the event they are eliminated. You can't attach the suspects to each other. This is publicly announced.



EVENT 5 - PERFECT BALANCE // OPEN EVENT // 10-13 PLAYERS ALIVE (at game start)

Everyone votes to nominate players to cross the gap. Whenever a player is nominated, the player who is currently crossing (if there is one) reaches the other side, unless scum activated their ability outlined below.

Once at any time, scum may cause a player who is about to cross over to fall to their death. Scum may also queue up this ability on players in advance.

If three successive town players reach the other side before scum make a kill, all scum die.

The game ends when four players have yet to cross. Players who cross (or are crossing when four players are still uncrossed) are safe from the perils of the next game. Those who do not cross are unlikely to survive the next game.

Secrets
- The next game is a shootout that takes place between all the players who fail to reach the opposite side of the chasm.

Sabotage Effect
- An extra successive town player must make it across before scum makes a kill. This will be announced publicly as sabotage. This can be used at any time before the kill is made.



EVENT 6 - SHOOTIN' BLIND // CLOSED EVENT // 9-12 PLAYERS ALIVE (at game start)

The lights are turned off. No one may speak during this time.

All Sharpshots receive guns. Each must privately choose another player to train their gun on.

There is a countdown before all guns are fired at once, killing their targets.

It is not revealed who fired at who.

Secrets
- The next game is a shootout that takes place between all the players who fail to reach the opposite side of the chasm.

Sabotage Effect
- Scum may choose one participant's gun to fill with blanks. Scum kills that player.



EVENT 7 - DESTINATION UNKNOWN // OPEN EVENT // 5-11 PLAYERS ALIVE (at game start)


5 players - Vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, last auto heaven
6 players - Vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, vote one to heaven, scum sends two to pit, last auto heaven
7 players - Vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, last auto heaven
8 players - Vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, vote one to heaven, scum sends two to pit, last auto heaven
9 players - Vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, last auto heaven
10 players - Vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, vote one to heaven, scum sends two to pit, last auto heaven
11 players - Vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, vote one to heaven, scum sends one to pit, last auto heaven
As this is an open event, all contestants will take part.

Only players currently not residing in Heaven or Hell may speak publicly.

After being sent, players move to their respective private chats located here and here.

All players currently not residing in Heaven or Hell vote on a player to ascend to Heaven. Then, scum privately selects a player to banish to Hell. This process repeats until all players reach a destination.

If there are ever three players remaining with more players in Heaven than Hell, then two players get sent to Hell at once.

When there is only one player remaining, they are sent to Heaven.

In total, there will be (number) players in Heaven and (number) in Hell.



EVENT 8 - THE ASCENDED, or TRIAL BY FIRE // CLOSED EVENT // 5-11 PLAYERS ALIVE (at game start)


There will be 3-6 players in Heaven and 2-5 players in Hell.

Two games will simultaneously take place in private.

Those who are currently in heaven will vote on a “Ruler”. They will perform an important function in the next game.

Those who are currently in the pit will vote on a player to save from certain death. Then, if there are at least two others still in the pit, the saved player may select any other player to save. They do not have to. The details of this game will never be disclosed.

If there are only two players in Hell, they must both come to a mutual agreement on a decision. If a decision cannot be made, then default decision is that no one in the pit gets saved.

Secrets
- Scum is given access to both realms regardless of whether or not they have players there. They cannot speak if they aren’t a real part of there, though. Scum knows what the Ruler does in the next game.

Sabotage Effect
- A mysterious power comes down to save a target player in Hell. Their vote is removed. Must be used before the first player is nominated to be saved. If only one other player remains in Hell, they die.

OR

A mysterious power disqualifies one player in Heaven from becoming Ruler. If there are five or more players in Heaven, then two players can be disqualified.



EVENT 9 - RULE BY THE ONE // OPEN EVENT // 3-10 PLAYERS ALIVE (at game start)


As this is an open event, all contestants take part.

Before discussion begins, the ruler privately nominates half of the players, rounded down, to become eligible for elimination.

Afterwards, all players vote YES or NO to eliminating each player who is still nominated. A majority of YES kills a player.

At least one player must die. If all players are voted "NO", then the player with the most "YES" will automatically be eliminated.

Flips do not happen until all decisions have been made. All players are allowed to vote up until the end of the phase, even if they are eliminated.

Sabotage Effect
- WIP


EVENT 10 - FINAL HOUR // OPEN EVENT // 3-9 PLAYERS ALIVE (at game start)


3 players alive - the two players voting to "Ring the Bell" must be town.
4 players alive - the three players voting to "Ring the Bell" must be town. If "Stop the Clock" was the previous phase, then only the first two players need be town.
5 players alive - the three players voting to "Ring the Bell" must be town.
6 players alive - the four players voting to "Ring the Bell" must be town. If "Stop the Clock" was the previous phase, then only the first three players need be town.
7 players alive - the four players voting to "Ring the Bell" must be town.
8 players alive - the five players voting to "Ring the Bell" must be town. If "Stop the Clock" was the previous phase, then only the first four players need be town.
9 players alive - the five players voting to "Ring the Bell" must be town.
This is an open event, so all contestants take part. This is guaranteed to be the final game.

All players publicly vote between three options:
IF WE ARE ON ODDS, WE START WITH "STOP THE CLOCK". IF WE ARE ON EVENS, WE START WITH "TICK AWAY".

- Ring the Bell
- Stop the Clock / Tick Away
- Crash the Party

When ringing the bell, you designate a team of players that you are voting for to ring it. If, when deadline is reached, and a majority of players are voting for the same team to "Ring the Bell", that selection is locked in. If all players ringing the bell are town-aligned, town wins. If there is scum included, scum wins.

If, when deadline is reached and "Ring the Bell" hasn't activated, and a majority are voting "Stop the Clock" -- OR if a total majority is ever voting "Stop the Clock" -- then a forty-eight hour deadline elimination begins. This elimination does not reveal alignment. After the elimination, this option is changed to "Tick Away" and the town player requirement for "Ring the Bell" is temporarily reduced by 1.

If, when deadline is reached and "Ring the Bell" hasn't activated, and a majority are voting "Tick Away" -- OR if a total majority is ever voting "Tick Away" -- then the last dead player's alignment is revealed. Additionally, scum has 48 hours to kill a town-aligned player during this phase (revealing their alignment). After the reveals, this option is changed to "Stop the Clock".

If half of the players are ever voting "Crash the Party", scum wins.

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:55 pm
by Morning Tweet
Notes about why things are the way they are //


HUGE GENERAL NOTE ABOUT THE SETUP


The point of this game is not to mechanically solve what is "optimal" or "perfect play", and the games should reflect this. The point of the game is to find scum within the boundaries of odd games that require you to scumhunt a bit differently.

You may notice that games tend to just be different ways of "Choose who is scummy and who isn't". This is intentional. We're not here to solve a puzzle about how to min-max town power roles or something. We're here to figure out who the scum are!

The game that comes the closest to being a mechanical puzzle is "Perfect Balance", but I'm planning on making it very clear that the intended play is "Don't send your towniest players first or they might die!! Oh!! But don't send scum either, then they'll be safe from the doom that is coming!! It all hangs in the balance."


NOTE ON SCUM


Scum have special abilities (Knowing the secrets behind the games and what happens in the future, sabotaging) because I want them to feel like the ones pulling the game's strings. They have insider info that they need to use to their advantage to eliminate townies.

Town does not have special abilities, instead all sharing the same role. If there were power roles, it would be way too hard for scum to kill those players and also kill the towniest players. Instead, there are simply towny town players and scummy ones to work with. If town had PRs, scum's lack of direct NKs would be much too punishing.


Event #1 + Event #2 (Throne + Guillotine)


This is meant to ease the players into the game with a simple majority elimination. As a twist, the eliminated player gets to choose a player on their wagon to kill. Also, they optionally have forty-eight hours to do some serious scumhunting if they wish and try to save themself from being killed afterwards.

Event #2 allows scum to make a simple nightkill, if they so wish.


Event #3 (Roulette)


This just sounds entertaining to me. Essentially, town gets to eliminate two players who then partake in a game of chance to determine who will live and who will die. However, scum decides where the bullet starts, so if the players want, they can make the game not about chance at all by not spinning the barrel! Spinning the barrel also incurs a personal disadvantage (you can't shoot that turn).

This essentially lets the players play a game of chance or a game of (somewhat) wits, their choice.

I also like the mechanic where the second nominee is the second-place wagon when the first is hammered (rather than a second nomination after the first). Might make the second target more interesting than just a "#2 consensus scumread". This is important cause I don't want the survivor of this game to just be an auto-elimination in the next game, I want a bit more thinking than that if possible.


Event #4 (Split Decision)


The point of this one is to try and create an environment where two team are arguing for two separate ideas and only one idea can win out. I choose players from each wagon on the previous day to try and create disagreement.

A person who switches their vote has their vote counted as double to try and encourage teams to persuade the opposing team to switch sides.


Event #5 (Perfect Balance)


The idea of this game is that you cannot send your strongest town, because that will give scum a free good nightkill.

However, you still want to try and send town in order to bait scum into wasting the nightkill on a suboptimal kill. You also want to save town from dying in the next game.

If three town cross in a row, town wins after all! Scum has to stop that, and if they stop that before the strongest town cross, that's a bonus for town.

This game also generates a lot of info. It might be too much information, I would need to balance check it more. This is counterbalanced at least somewhat by how scum does get a guaranteed nightkill.


Event #6 (Shooting Blind)


This game is mostly here to reiterate that town NEEDS to save town by sending them across in the previous game. This also gives purpose to the previous game after scum makes their kill.

Most of the players in this game die, but they get one last fun thing to do (shoot someone!)


Event #7 (Destination Unknown) + Event #8 (Ascended/Trial by Fire)


These games are meant to thin out numbers, as if there are many players then scum gets a double nightkill essentially, but at least one player dies guaranteed.

There is also a fun Heaven/Hell mechanic which I enjoy, but the twist is town sends people to heaven and scum to hell.

Heaven vote is always first because I want a strong town player to be able to be so towny they're safe from scum's wrath.

Now during the "Trial by Fire", the reason you don't *have* to save a player is that if you save scum, they leave all the other players in hell to burn there forever (since the details of the game are never revealed). Certainly a lot of WIFOM involved in sending scum to Hell on purpose or not doing so. Also the save mechanic makes scum less likely to just send all town to Hell (since 2 will still survive). Sending scum down there can potentially be very helpful.


Event #9 (Rule by the Few)


I have rewritten this one a ton of times, can't seem to figure it out.

I want the players in Heaven to feel special during this game and have control over the elim without it being unfun for players who werent in heaven. But I wonder if this game even really adds anything interesting.


Event #10 (Final Hour)


This one has gone through a ton of variations as well. I want the finale to be as dramatic as possible with an "instant win" mechanic involved for either team (scum's win is just getting parity of course). Still not entirely sure what I want to do with this one.

I want to change ringing the bell so scum cant just vote to bring the bell and ruin the option (not an intended part of that mechanic). Town is supposed to always have the option of winning through that (if they have the members). -- Applied a fix but it might be a bit clunky (having voters choose the others they want to ring the bell with)

Essentially you can either lock in your town block, OR you can do eliminations/nightkills to reduce the pool. However, eliminations don't get revealed unless a nightkill follows. If you eliminate and keep the elim flip a secret, the required # of players ringing the bell goes down, though. If you choose to reveal the flip, you lose town via nightkill and don't get any required bell # benefit.

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:26 am
by Not Known 15
Perfect Balance+shootout - This is probably too much? If scum just prevents the first crossing then ALL players are in a shootout(or at least all minus the one who is sent to cross?), and with scum having knowledge on who to shoot in advance they have massive advantages - essentially one nightkill per scum player PLUS ONE with the sabotage whilst the townie's targets might be much more concentrated(and the most dangerous townie will be secretly nightkilled and roleblocked).
In fact, even if SCUM crosses and there are 4 scum alive then it might be worth to Nightkill scum(to prevent more scum crossing), that's how bad it is.
With the massive advantages of scum in earlier games 2 scum eliminations are difficult and 3 are extremely difficult at this point.

Of course, if scum plays atrociously they lose but that should not be the gold standard.

Roulette:
What do you do if e.g. a town player(with the gun) says "I am just shooting [NAME OF OTHER PLAYER] until they die"? What's the rule for town stumbling upon the secret action? What counts and what does not?

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:20 pm
by Morning Tweet
Perfect Balance -> Shootout


After scum does the kill, Perfect Balance continues! It only ends when 4 players are uncrossed. If scum immediately does their kill, that's good for town since town shouldn't send the towniest player first. Shootout always has exactly 4 players.

Shootout should ideally have the 4 scummiest players left behind.


Roulette


Hmmm, it is not intended for town to be able to utilize the secret action. I should change the rule so that it's a scum-only ability. The point of the action is that if scum has an unredeemable slot, they can trade away the scum for a nightkill (which is suboptimal but better than just having the scum die).

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:25 pm
by Morning Tweet
Specific breakdown of kills controlled by either faction:


When I say town, i mean the majority of players voting to kill a player. When I say scum, I mean scum utilizing a sabotage, game mechanics, or a secret to kill a player


Event #1 + Event #2


Allows for one town elimination. Gives a vengekill to the eliminated player which can be town or scum controlled.


Event #3


Allows for two town eliminations (info-wise), however only one of the eliminations actually dies. Can give scum a nightkill but if scum uses the nightkill one of their players dies.


Event #4


Allows for two town eliminations (info-wise), however only one of the eliminations actually dies.


Event #5 + #6


Puts four players up for elimination. At least one dies, and likely 2-3 die. Scum gets a nightkill but the nightkill is not freely chosen -- it's determined by town's choices.


Event #7 + #8


This is highly variable but it typically lets scum kill 1-2 players but these are not freely chosen, it's determined by town's choices.


Event #9


The towniest players in the previous game get to decide who is up for elimination, then all players vote on who dies.


Event #10


This is alternating town eliminations and scum kills, with a coalition-type "Lock in a town bloc and win" mechanic.

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:01 pm
by Not Known 15
What happens if a deadline is missed(e.g. Fateful Duel with no votes except on one person)?

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:48 pm
by Morning Tweet
What happens if a deadline is reached without majority or a decision?


When I say town, i mean the majority of players voting to kill a player. When I say scum, I mean scum utilizing a sabotage, game mechanics, or a secret to kill a player


Event #1 (Throne)


Same as a normal elimination -- plurality with seniority breaking ties.


Event #2 (Guillotine)


If the executioner fails to make a decision, I'll kill the player they voted last in the previous phase. If they didn't vote any of the nobles, they'll kill randomly. Plurality and seniority are in effect.


Event #3 (Fateful Duel)


The biggest and second-biggest wagons will be taken regardless of how many votes they have. In the event of a really bad day where the wagons are tiny, then the third-place and fourth-place wagon players might get used in the next game. If that happens, I attempt to keep third place and fourth place players on separate teams.

If there are only votes on one player at deadline, which would be quite odd given the players know the second-place wagon, then whoever had votes last (but was unvoted) becomes the second nominee.


Event #4 (Split Decision)


If a card isn't submitted, they Pass by default. if there is a tie, then the Shifts take precedence. If there is still a tie, then the Passes become Holds. If there is still a tie, scum picks.


Event #5 (Perfect Balance)


There are mini-deadlines for each crossing vote. If a majority isn't reached, plurality/seniority apply.


Event #6 (Shootin' Blind)


If a player doesn't shoot, they'll shoot at the player they voted to execute in the last game where such a vote applies. If they never voted for any of the others, they shoot randomly.


Event #7 (Destination Unknown)


Plurality and seniority.


Event #8 (Ascended/Trial by Fire)


For Ascended, normal plurality/seniority. If no decision is made in Trial by Fire, you pass automatically.


Event #9 (Rule by the Few)


If there a tie, a player is spared. If all players are spared, the one with the most YEA's is spared. If there are somehow no YEAs, then the first nominee dies.


Event #10 (Final Hour)


Normal plurality/seniority rules (aside from Ring the Bell's special rules).

If there is no votes for some reason, then Stop the Clock / Tick Away is selected automatically.

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:35 pm
by Not Known 15
Is the usage of Sabotage in Perfect Balance public? If not, then this could generate tons of false info, especially if town sends the towniest players first.

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:48 am
by Morning Tweet
Sabotage Further Elaborations


Event #1 (Throne)


Gotta be used before the hammer. Then, after the hammer, it is announced there was a sabotage and that (these players) cannot be nominated, must do another vote.

This sabotage strikes me as not terribly useful might change it


Event #2 (Guillotine)


Must be used before the executioner picks. After they do, the guillotine fails, a sabotage is announced, and another person dies instead. The executioner must then choose a different player.


Event #3 (Fateful Duel)


This must be used before the duel starts. This sabotage is kept a secret (I think it would be borderline useless if it were announced, since the surviving player would obviously just get eliminated next since it is revealed scum saved them)


Event #4 (Split Decision)


This sabotage is announced in the middle of the discussion phase as an extra rule. Must be used before the vote starts.


Event #5 (Perfect Balance)


The sabotage for perfect balance must be used during the first vote deadline. It will be announced publicly by the announcer that "Oops, we made a mistake! It seems there must be four successive town players!" (so it is announced it was sabotaged, yes). This would be devastating for town if it were secret but i still think it is quite good public


Event #6 (Shootin' Blind)


This sabotage is kept a secret. It's basically just a nightkill + roleblock.


Event #7 (Destination Unknown)


This sabotage must be used any time after the first two votes. It instantly resolves.


Event #8 (Ascended/Trial by Fire)


This is publicly announced in Trial by Fire that the game's rules have been changed. Can be used at any time during Trial by Fire and it makes everything that happened irrelevant.

Prohibiting a player from ruler must happen before a ruler is hammered.


Event #9 (Rule by the One)


This is completely secret. The sabotaged player just dies at the end of the event. The sabotage must be used while a player is on stand, against that player, before a vote is hammered. They die at the end of the game as a surprise.


Event #10 (Final Hour)


This game has no sabotage mechanic.

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:26 pm
by Morning Tweet
Changes 1


Event #8 (Ascended/Trial by Fire)


There are no longer justices. The players in Heaven simply vote for a Ruler, now.

Scum has access to a second type of sabotage: they may disqualify a player from being selected as ruler. If there are 5 players in heaven, they may disqualify 2 players.


Event #9 (Rule by the One)


The ruler simply selects half of the players, rounded down, to be eligible for elimination.

Scum doesn't have a sabotage yet, haven't thought of one.


Event #10 (Final Hour)


You no longer volunteer to ring the bell directly. Instead, you vote for a team of players to ring it. For example, if three players must ring the bell, you would say "Morning Tweet, Not Known 15, and Isis ring the bell" in order to vote for that team. If a majority votes for a team, it's locked in.

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:21 pm
by Not Known 15
I need more time to think...

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:35 pm
by Morning Tweet
It'll be a little while before this game is ran, so no worries!

Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:50 am
by Not Known 15
I don't really like how
both
the second AND the fourth event punish players for being on decisive wagons, or rather reward players for being OFF wagon,
regardless of if the wagon is good or not.

Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:42 pm
by Morning Tweet
Hmm, that's a fair point. Making it so that the players who are off-wagon / don't vote are immune to being killed is a bit odd.

I think in event 4, that's an easy fix: Allow the two teams to nominate **any** player, except for a player on their own team, and if they opt to nominate a player outside of the game, it sucks that player into the game.

The idea behind event 2 was that if unredeemable scum is elimed, they can nightkill a strong town on their wagon. Otherwise, if town or redeemable scum is elimed, they can try to scumhunt on wagon to try and get back into the game.

For the time being, I'm at least going to change #4:

EDIT: A possible change for event #2 is as follows: Scum knows that only players on the final wagon can be killed by the guillotine. Additionally, during the next phase, it will be made public knowledge that scum knew this.

That way, there's some information for town -- they know that scum knew they were immune to event #2 if they stayed off-wagon.

Changes 2


Event #2 (Guillotine)


Scum's knowledge in #1 is revealed to the thread during Event #2. Scum knows this will happen.


Event #3 (Fateful Duel)


Only scum can activate the secret ability.


Event #4 (Split Decision)


The two teams must now nominate any player who is not a part of their own team, which can be a spectator too.

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:54 am
by Not Known 15
The fix for 2 is good.
4 might have made things worse.
Essentially, people are now punished for having resisted two wagons regardless of if they were good or not.
They have a double chance to be nominated for elimination instead a single.
They could be eliminated outright if both teams nominate the same person.
And they are barred from defending themselves before being put up, maybe even eliminated whilst being muted.

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:13 pm
by Morning Tweet
In post 39, Not Known 15 wrote:The fix for 2 is good.
4 might have made things worse.
Essentially, people are now punished for having resisted two wagons regardless of if they were good or not.
They have a double chance to be nominated for elimination instead a single.
They could be eliminated outright if both teams nominate the same person.
And they are barred from defending themselves before being put up, maybe even eliminated whilst being muted.

The fix for 2 is good.4 might have made things worse.Essentially, people are now punished for having resisted two wagons regardless of if they were good or not.They have a double chance to be nominated for elimination instead a single.They could be eliminated outright if both teams nominate the same person.And they are barred from defending themselves before being put up, maybe even eliminated whilst being muted.
Hmmmmmm.

How about.... I divide the entire playerlist into 2 groups for the teams to choose from. Each group contains the members of the opposite group + half of the spectators.

This way, it's impossible for someone to be nominated twice, and every single player in the game has only one chance to be nominated.

I am also considering removing the spectators from that game entirely -- could assign top wagon to team 1, second to team 2, third to team 3, fourth to team 4 and do it that way.

In fact the spectators do feel a bit janky for that game. If I put top wagon to 1, second to 2, and so on and tried to divide evenly, I could still attempt the "two teams with opposing viewpoint" idea I want to go for

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:15 pm
by Morning Tweet
how about:

Changes 3


Event #4 (Split Decision)


The entire game is now divided into two teams, not just the #1 and #2 wagons.

The #1 wagon becomes team one, and #2 + all other wagons and nonvoters become team two.

Each team nominates a player from the opposite team.

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:07 pm
by Not Known 15
You may as well give scum a free nightkill instead of sabotage in 4. If the teams are roughly equal and scum destroys the Shift of Team A and Hold for Team B it's game over for the Team A nominee. Even if there's just ONE scum...

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:03 pm
by Morning Tweet
Ya scum's sabo doesnt make much sense in that one -- still considering what would make more sense

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:26 pm
by Morning Tweet
Better sabotage ideas / notes on existing sabotages


Event #1 (Chair of Honour)


This is not a particularly powerful sabotage. I have pondered changing it to "After the hammer, the chair malfunctions and another player must be selected. In addition, all players currently being voted for become ineligible to be picked" -- but that seems way too annoying.

I am having trouble striking a balance between helpful to scum but also not completely obnoxious to town in such a simple mini game


Event #2 (Guillotine)


I don't have much issue with this one. Scum gets a nightkill and can meddle with the executioner for WIFOM -- but it's early in the game so sabotages are inherently going to be less helpful than late game ones. That's why I gave it two effects.


Event #3 (Fateful Duel)


I like this one. It's not terribly good, but if scum wants to, they can sabotage the game to save one of their own. It isn't very powerful as i said but it does save a member of scum if they so choose, and thats all you can really ask for

The "Secret" of this game allowing scum to trade 1-for-1 is almost more of a sabotage, but that one carries such a heavy cost (doing a 1-for-1) that it shouldnt be a sabotage.


Event #4 (Split Decision)


NEW PROPOSAL: Scum can attach a player of their choice to Suspect Blue, as well as a player to Suspect Pink. The attached player will die alongside the suspect in the event they are eliminated.

It's WIFOMy, they can attach themselves, but if used improperly they might make confirm towns. Allows for a nightkill in a way. It will be hard to pick between the two suspects when the towniest player also dies and you don't even know if that person is scum.

At the very least it lets scum go 1-for-1 but it has the potential to do a lot more


Event #5 (Split Decision)


I feel as if this sabotage has a high chance of letting scum nightkill whoever they want while simultaneously denying town as much info as they'd have gotten. I think it works fine with the game -- whether or not I'll change the game down the line I'm yet unsure actually. The idea is you send people who are towny but not too towny until scum has to make a kill. This has a side effect of kinda generating info -- but idk if that info is too weak or too powerful for town


Event #6 (Shootin' Blind)


The four scummiest players are kinda already in this game so killing one doesnt seem terribly helpful. But I don't want the sabotage to be something like a bulletproof vest for scum, because i dont want scum to get even more protection from dying than they already have. Plus if someone who shot scum lives they'll just be confirmed scum anyway

There's probably a more elegant sabotage here I havent thought of yet


Event #7 (Destination Unknown)


This is supposed to have a sabotage but doesn't have one yet.

The issue with the sabo being "Scum sends someone to hell immediately" is that hell isn't really a confirmed kill. At least one person usually survives, and u would probably expect that to be the person scum immediately used a sabotage on.

This sabotage might be "Scum goes first, causing one extra player to be sent to hell" or something along those lines, would need to test that out a bit more

It's definitely weaker but I think it's fine if the late game sabos are a bit less than confirmed kill in power since its stronger to get rid of people later


Event #8 (Ascended/Trial)


The point of this sabotage is so if 1 town and 1 scum are in hell, but the town wont vote for the scum, then you can sabotage to get the scum out. I need to think of a more elegant wording for that. I don't want the sabotage to help scum in hell who, say, are in a 2 town vs 1 scum and the town vote for town.

The second sabotage is to prevent a ruler which could be quite good or not depending on who is second/third towniest. Definitely would cast doubt on the ruler. Plus you could sabotage yourself for WIFOM


Event #9 (Rule by the One)


Sort of same problem as the first event where the game is very simple so sabotaging it without it being bullshit is kinda hard. I might be changing this game anyway

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:31 pm
by Morning Tweet
Changes 4


Event #4 (Split Decision)


Sabotage Effect - Scum can attach a player of their choice to Suspect Blue, as well as a player to Suspect Pink. The attached player will die alongside the suspect in the event they are eliminated. You can't attach the suspects to each other. This is publicly announced.

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:18 am
by Morning Tweet
Planning on starting advertisement/pre-ins soon. Post 23 has the advertisement -- lemme know if there's anything wrong with it or if there are any balance changes that might need to be made before it can be released

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:09 pm
by Not Known 15
I have thought about the sabotages for a moment, and the rest, and have come to an unfortunate result.
We have 12 vs 4, which is 50% town EV in Vanilla Nightless.
Many of these events allow for loopholes and/or vengekills by scum, or otherwise restrict town power.
The only pro-town(more pro-town than successive town executions) event is crossing the bridge, which can be slightly more townsided to extremely powerful.
But it's mostly extremely powerful for town which would probably have won anyways.
With event 7 being heavily anti-town(to the point that 3v2/4v2/5v3 are actual or de-facto auto-losses) the game is probably heavily scumsided.
13v3, perhaps?
Rule by One sabotage: You may give a player a secret "yes" that will show up as "mysterious voter" if, and only if that player reaches majority or is otherwise eliminated due to that game.(Note:Deliberately very weak as scum should have used sabotage before)

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:39 pm
by Morning Tweet
Changes 5


Event #5 (Split Decision)


The amount of successive town players that must make it across before scum loses is increased by 1 per already dead scum.


Event #7 (Destination Unknown)


After being chosen for Heaven or Hell, a player continues being able to vote for the rest of the phase (that was a pretty big oversight by me since if town is sent to Heaven during Xylo scum gets vote control)


Event #9 (Rule by the One)


The ruler now includes an order to their nominees -- and the YES / NO votes are held for each player one by one in the order they are listed. So the YES / NO vote for a player doesnt begin until a decision is made on the previous player.

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:42 pm
by Morning Tweet
I see what you mean with regards to the games that are pro-town versus the pro-scum ones. Scum has access to (essentially) a few nightkills and otherwise helpful mechanics, but town's best games are usually just normal eliminations such as those you would find in a nightless game.

I am actually fine with the setup being a bit scumsided, but not heavily so. I would like to fix event 7 (destination unknown) to be much more neutral, and probably modify another game to be inherently extra information gaining (like event 5, perfect balance is)
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