because i am assuming that, even if there's a lot of false positives, an innocent will still be treated as most-likely innocent. i *know* i have a history of screwing around with the gunsmith results, but i don't think the game would immediately jump to "a year ago datisi modded a game where all mafia were doctors so this must be a similar game so we should ignore any and all gunsmith results!!!"
1x town combined rolestopper vigilante
1x town gunsmith
1x town 1-shot backup gunsmith
1x town n2 rolecop
1x town vengeful miller
5x vt
1x mafia 2-shot multitasking jailkeeper
1x mafia informed (there is a town combined rolestopper vigilante in the game)
1x mafia rolestopper enabler
i kind of think that the fact there is a backup gunsmith on top of a regular gunsmith would be a clue that hey, the gunsmith is kind of important, but informed mod perspective etc.
i'm thinking if maybe the rolestopper should be changed into an alien to stop any kind of follow the cop shenanigans, and maybe inform scum there's a vengeful in the game too, because i'm looking at a possibility of a venge+vig in yelo and it's making me have some... uncomfortable flashbacks.
originally i made the rolecop a n1 so that the miller has bigger odds of getting cleared, but depending on the amount of "clears" the gunsmith gets and how they're treated, it felt too much.
i also thought about maybe making a gunsmith informed and letting them know that there are no mafia doctors or traitors (so a clear is a clear) but that also felt a bit too much. maybe it's not.
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:33 am
by Something_Smart
Yeah follow the cop seems a bit problematic. I like the alien change.
I guess it's probably
somewhere
in the realm of balanced with that? It's still swingy as shit, and it contains your favorite venge + vig combo. But that is pretty rare, especially since scum have a counter if the JK is alive.
how much of a problem is this, player-fun-wise? i know it's not Required for a game to be not swingy, but i like to at least try to not get murdered post game. and are there any easy fixes for it that keep the core idea
or should i just throw away the whole setup
?
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:01 pm
by Something_Smart
In general it's often not a
huge
problem, but it's worse in the normal queue because people want, you know, normal games.
That said, you do have a mod reputation, so you will probably attract mostly people who can handle the complexity. It's definitely still bad, but I wouldn't call it a deal breaker.
I think less swingy games are on average more fun though.
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:20 pm
by Datisi
not sure if i'm a fan of there being that much swing that it's still *bad*
1x town combined alien voyeur
1x town gunsmith
1x town 1-shot backup gunsmith
1x town n2 joat (rolecop, follower)
1x town vengeful miller
5x vt
1x mafia 2-shot jailkeeper
1x mafia informed (there is a vengeful town member in the game)
1x mafia alien enabler
this keeps the idea of "one role until an enabler dies, then a different role", but the other role is decently weaker so the mafia enabler dying early should be a net positive for the scumteam instead of a "lol now town has a vig fk u"
i'd rather have universal multitasking, as i just now realized that "multitasking jailkeeper" is basically a guilty for the rolecop
this entirely removes the vigilante though, and depending on how much town power there was from it, might leave the game scumsided? if so, i'm thinking of adding some sorta gated tracker or something, but yeah, wanna check this one first.
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:12 am
by Something_Smart
Looks better for sure.
The main issue that comes to mind now is that if the miller claims miller they are likely to attract a gunsmith check which is Really Bad for town.
if you want them to be confirmable by the rolecop maybe backup vig or backup IC?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:23 am
by Datisi
1x town combined alien voyeur
1x town gunsmith
1x town 1-shot backup gunsmith
1x town n2 joat (rolecop, follower)
1x town backup vigilante
5x vt
I would probably drop the N2 from the JOAT in that case, both to give town a little more power and increase the chance of the rolecop check landing on the backup vig.
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:29 am
by Datisi
sure, i can do that.
if a follower follows a person who is visiting the alien's target, the follower still sees the action, right?
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:33 am
by Something_Smart
Yeah.
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:37 am
by Datisi
alright, thanks.
been a long day, i'll get role pm's up tomorrow, assuming chaos doesn't have any objections to this setup.
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:56 am
by Datisi
1x town combined alien voyeur
1x town gunsmith
1x town 1-shot backup gunsmith
1x town joat (rolecop, follower)
1x town backup vigilante
5x vt
.
~ your action failed, and you did not receive a result.
gunsmith:
~
playername
has a gun.
~
playername
does
not
have a gun.
~ your action failed, and you did not receive a result.
rolecop:
~
playername
is
vanilla
.
~
playername
is a
combined alien voyeur
.
~
playername
is a
gunsmith
.
~
playername
is a
1-shot backup gunsmith
.
~
playername
is a
backup vigilante
.
~
playername
is a
2-shot jailkeeper
.
~
playername
is a
alien enabler
.
follower:
~
playername
performed a
blocking
action.
~
playername
performed an
action investigation
action.
~
playername
performed a
role investigation
action.
~
playername
performed a
jailkeeping
action.
~
playername
performed a
killing
action.
ruleset:
Spoiler:
rules
shamelessly stolen
inspired by plotinus' and schadd_'s rulesets.
the tl;dr:
~ day 1: 10 days. days 2+: 8 days. nights: 2 days.
~ majority yeets.
~ 36 hour before prod, 24 hours before replacement.
~ if you want to replace out, pm me.
~ flavour has no bearing on player alignments.
~ don't be a dick.
. you can use it if you want, just don't attempt to impersonate me.
~ you may not talk to each other about this game outside of threads i have created for this purpose. you may not talk about other ongoing games in this thread.
~
if you wish to replace out, pm me, do not request replacement in thread.
do not discuss your reasons for replacing out publically. do not threaten to replace out or tell other players to replace out. if you have any concerns that a player should be replaced, pm me.
~ do not quote pm's from the mod at all, either real or fabricated. do not quote posts from private threads. this includes specific timestamps. paraphrasing is acceptable.
~
don’t be a dick.
this is a heated game but toxicity will not be tolerated. attack the play not the player. if your fellow players tell you to stop, you must stop. if you do not stop, i will tell you to stop. if you still do not stop, you will be force-replaced.
~
flavour is just flavour, and has no bearing on player alignments.
don't use it to make arguments.
~ play to win. seriously claiming scum with another player is against the rules. i will judge what counts as serious - don't toe the line.
~ if you have any questions about the rules, feel free to pm me.
days and voting:
~ day 1 lasts up to 10 real-life days. days 2+ last up to 8 real-life days.
~ extensions may or may not be granted if there are replacements, or if the circumstances call for it (for example, if the site was experiencing issues).
~ votes must be in bold in the format VOTE: datisi or
vote: datisi
. Strong preference for using vote tags instead of bold tags. unvotes are nice but not required. type [
v]datisi[
/v] to vote and [
uv]datisi[
/uv] to unvote.
~ you can use nicknames when voting, as long as it is clear who you're referring to.
~ if i think it’s a vote, it’s a vote.
~ days end early when a simple majority of players (50% of living players + 1 rounded down) vote to yeet somebody.
~ if a majority is not reached at deadline or if a majority of the players vote for no yeet, the day will end without a yeet. at evens, 50% is sufficient for no yeet.
~ twilight begins when a majority is reached and lasts until i lock the thread. you're still alive until i flip you so you can talk in any game threads you have access to until then, but no votes or unvotes will be counted.
~ it takes (100% of living players + 1) votes to yeet the moderator.
activity and v/la:
~ you must post at least once every 36 hours or i will prod you. you then have 24 hours to post in the game thread or i will replace you. if you come back before i find a replacement, you can stay.
~ if i have to prod you for the fourth time, i will automatically start searching for a replacement.
~ if you haven't posted in the 24 hours before the thread is locked for night, you must reply to the night start pm or you will be replaced during the night.
~ players can request me to prod somebody early. this will only count as an official prod if you don't post before you would have been due for a prod.
~ if you need to be absent for longer than 36 hours, you should declare
v/la
in bold in the thread like this: [
b]
@mod: I will be v/la until thursday
[
/b]. while you are v/la, you will be nudged once every 60 hours. two nudges equals one prod. if you have not posted game advancing content in 5 days, regardless of v/la status, you will be replaced.
~ a naked "prod dodge" does not reset the prod timer. to avoid being prodded/replaced for inactivity, include some game advancing content in your prodges, such as "got prodded; datisi is still scum."
nights and night actions:
~ nights last 48 hours.
~ the night phase can be shortened if every living player -- even those with no night actions -- agrees to it and if I'm not busy.
~ you may submit actions via pm. if you have a scum pt, a mason pt, or a notes pt, you may also submit your actions there. if the actions are not submitted by the deadline then you do nothing. you can change your mind as many times as you like before the deadline.
~ if i don't hear from you about your night actions, i'll pm you 24 hours before the deadline. this doesn't count as a prod. if i still don't hear from you, you will take no action.
miscellaneous:
~ let me know if you want a private thread to store your thoughts and feedback for the other players. you may draft posts in your notes pt if the posts are clearly meant to be posted in the main thread. you may talk about your notes pt. you may not directly quote from your notes pt, and you may not use it to demonstrate that you've had a town mindset in private all along; just put your town mindset in public to begin with and keep your notes to yourself.
~ provable randomness is against the rules. saying that you rolled a dice is fine, using dice tags or random.org screenshots is not.
~ no hard to read / extremely small text. cryptography is forbidden. breadcrumbing is okay.
~ using scripts to alter or hide another player's posts is not allowed.
~ the only allowed media is embedded content, or links to uneditable content. for example, you are not allowed to link vocaroos and pastebins in the thread.
~ very big images and big chunks of non-game-related text are allowed, as long as they are spoiled. if you post them without a spoiler, i will edit a spoiler in.
~ excessive spamming is not allowed.
~ the mod may make mistakes. minor errors (such as a mistake in the vote count) can be pointed out in-thread. for bigger errors, please pm me.
~ i reserve the right to alter/remove/add any rules as i see fit. you will be notified if this happens.
setup information:
~ this is a normal game.
~ any and all private topics will be open at all times.
~ all members of the
mafia
are multitasking by default.
~ sample vanilla townie role pm:
Spoiler:
i already dread having to resolve all of this... so, if someone visits the alien's target, they're still visible to the follower. likewise, if the follower follows the alien, they should see both a blocking and an action investigation? and if they follow them *after* the alien enabler is dead, they see only the action investigation?
and, if the rolecop and the gunsmith visit the same person that the voyeur is watching, they should get a "you saw a role investigation" twice, right?
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:31 am
by ChaosOmega
I'll let S_S confirm, but I believe the answer is yes to all of your questions. For the result PM's, rolecop/follower should have a no result option as well, along with a didn't see anything result for voyeur/follower.
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:41 am
by Something_Smart
Everything Chaos said is correct, yes. Nothing else looks wrong; I'll give it another look just to double-check once you fix those things.
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:41 am
by Datisi
i am totally a competent moderator, i swear.
"your action failed, and you did not receive a result." is also for both the rolecop and follower. as for the didn't see anything:
