Mafiascum.net

(Actually I guess Traitor-Enabler isn't a hard guilty but it would be a very weird role to give to town)

Setup in 16 definitely feels scumsided to me, and I think that the best options would either be gating the roleblocker or adding more to the JOAT.
I'd actually add not one role, but two, to the JOAT; my recommendations would be 2/3 of {Voyeur, Commuter, Investigative-role-e.g.-gunsmith/rolecop/etc}.

Do you think Hider and Commuter are too samey in effect for the same JoAT? I could do Rolecop, Follower, Commuter, and something in a different category from those like Rolestopper. (But can just do Voyeur if you think three different investigative shots isn't excessive)

In post 27, Umlaut wrote:Do you think Hider and Commuter are too samey in effect for the same JoAT?

I mean, in a sense, yes; they both serve to protect the JOAT at the cost of the JOAT not using an investigative action. I, personally, have no issue with a JOAT having two investigatives and two self-protect actions since they can't be used on the same night meaning that it takes skill to guess when the best times to use which are, and how to use them.

I also personally don't think three investigatives on a JOAT is excessive, but,
1: It's your setup so it's largely your preference, and,
2: Datisi is the primary so it's mostly Datisi's call

i don't have an issue with either 2 investigatives + 2 protective shots, or 3 investigatives + something else for the joat. so depends on which one would you prefer, umlaut.

I'd actually prefer Rolecop+Follower+Rolestopper+Commuter if that is acceptable (neither of you commented on Rolestopper as a suggestion here). If that gets vetoed I'll do Rolecop+Follower+Hider+Commuter.

1x mafia roleblocker
1x mafia traitor-enabler bodyguard
1x mafia informed traitor (knows there's 4 tprs, one of which is a detective)

1x town detective
1x town joat (rolecop, follower, rolestopper, commuter)
1x town combined doctor checker
1x town non-consecutive night vigilante
6x vt

this? rolestopper also seems fine to me to add into the joat here. unless mastina sees anything that's wrong with this setup, i'd pass it.

That's the one. I'll start writing updated role PMs in a bit.

I think that's fine.

Reproducing all role/result PMs here, not just the changed ones, for easier review in one place. Note Mafia will be informed of the Traitor's existence within their private topic; I find this more convenient since I don't have to find a good way to redact it from the PM on flip.





Are we good to go?

I have a few issues with the role/result PMs, I'll explain why once home.

Bump

In post 35, mastina wrote:I have a few issues with the role/result PMs, I'll explain why once home.

Took me an extra 20 hours or so, but can do so now:

In post 34, Umlaut wrote:

Town Jack-of-All-Trades

Welcome to Mini Normal {NUMBER}! You are a

Town Jack-of-All-Trades

, with the following abilities.

• 1-Shot Rolecop:
  On one night of your choice you may
  investigate
  another player to learn their role (but not alignment).
  
• 1-Shot Follower:
  On one night of your choice you may
  follow
  another player to learn what if any type(s) of action that player takes during the night.
  
• 1-Shot Rolestopper:
  On one night of your choice you may
  rolestop
  another player to prevent all actions targeting that player.
  
• 1-Shot Commuter:
  On one night of your choice you may
  commute
  , leaving town for the night and making it impossible to take any action on another player, or to have any actions taken on you.

You win when the Town is the sole surviving faction.

This works, but it would be best to specify that the JOAT can only use one ability per night.

In post 34, Umlaut wrote:

Town Combined Doctor Checker

Welcome to Mini Normal {NUMBER}! You are a

Town Combined Doctor Checker

.

Each night, you may choose another player to take

both

of the following actions:

• heal
  that player, protecting them from one kill attempt during the night; and
  
• check
  that player, and be informed whether the check was successful.
  (The check has no other effect.)

You win when the Town is the sole surviving faction.

Here, the wording "you may choose another player to take of the following actions" implies that the targeted player will suddenly be both rather than being the of both. It needs a slight wording tweak, like "Each night, you may choose another player and you will take of the following actions on them", to convey the appropriate meaning.

In post 34, Umlaut wrote:

Detective No Result

You failed to investigate {PLAYER}.

Rolecop No Result

You failed to investigate {PLAYER}.

Follower No Result

You failed to follow {PLAYER}.

I would add "and receive No Result" to this to make it clear that "failed to investigate" = No Result. (Never underestimate players' ability to assume a message from the mod means something else, as without specifying No Result, it's possible they would think that the PM is due to their submitted action having been rejected or something like that.

In post 34, Umlaut wrote:

Rolecop Negative

You learned that {PLAYER} has no special role.

This however is not a correct result for a Rolecop and is mandatory to change; Vanillas/Goons show up as "Vanilla" to the rolecop, not as 'no special role'. (The two might pragmatically mean the same thing but for a role that has a very specific ruleset, you need to follow the rules for the role.)

The rest is good to my eye tho.

I have used exactly that wording for no-result PMs without issue in all my past Normal games (in general I have a preference for minimizing use of "mechanical" terms like No Result, where possible) but I will change it if that is important to you.

Somewhat surprised at "no special role" being unacceptable wording but okay.




I'd also like to verify that the list of "types of action" for purposes of Follower results is the list on the wiki page Natural_Action_Resolution/Normal_Game, so e.g. following the Combined Doctor Checker returns "a protective action and a miscellaneous action" and nothing more specific than that.

In post 38, Umlaut wrote:I'd also like to verify that the list of "types of action" for purposes of Follower results is the list on the wiki page Natural_Action_Resolution/Normal_Game, so e.g. following the Combined Doctor Checker returns "a protective action and a miscellaneous action" and nothing more specific than that.

That's correct.

I've nothing more that I can think of.

we're keeping mafia multitasking being on by default, right? if so, i would specify in the mafia role pm's that they can both take their action and perform the factional kill in the same night, since i feel like people often overlook the setup-specific rules, and having multitasking is not the default.

everything else looks fine to me.

Would it suffice to mention multitasking explicitly in the first post of the Mafia PT? I prefer to keep role PMs as close to identical as possible across my games.

If that doesn't suffice then I will go ahead and add "helper text"

(Since this setup has default multitasking enabled, you may use this action even if you are committing the factional kill.)

after the role-specific active ability text for each of the Mafia Roleblocker and Mafia Traitor-Enabler Bodyguard.

Can I consider this passed?

mentioning multitasking in the first post of the mafia pt is fine.

/pass