Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[CallMeLiam]

Day I, Vote Count VI

PoisonIvy - 6 -

XScorpion, bvoigt, LynchMePls, Artem, Beasts of the Sea, Furcolow

bvoigt - 1 -

Stephoscope

Furcolow - 2 -

, Sathoris, pappums rat

jmj3000 - 1 -

LlamaFluff

EGL - 1 -

Fuzzyman

ThAdmiral - 3 -

nachomma8, RedCoyote, EGL

XScorpion - 1 -

PoisonIvy

GhostWriter - 3 -

ThAdmiral, smargaret, Lowell

pappums rat - 3 -

DavidParker, Scott Brosius, InflatablePie

Not Voting - 3 -

Ghostwriter, jmj3000, gonnano

With twenty-four of you alive thirteen votes will lynch. The day will end on Sunday February 20th at 9am GMT.

Fuzzyman replaces julienvonwolfe

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama: why do you think gonnano is scum, but GW is town? Curious, since they're both acting slightly similar.

No they arent. GW gave off a boatload of town tells early on, gonno really hasnt given off any strong town tells, just quite a few scum tells.

Vote rat

[bvoigt]

no scott, furcolow is not a policy lynch, i use anti-town and scummy to refer to the same sort of behaviors, and as far as im concerned furcolow has been scummier than pi. and no one is paying attention to most of the people in this game, there are 24 of us.

Since when are anti-town and scummy the same thing? Some actions make no sense from scum or town, and some actions only make sense from scum.

Then hang me Parker.

Vigs however, please hold your fire.

What do you mean by this?

[Scott Brosius]

Since when are anti-town and scummy the same thing? Some actions make no sense from scum or town, and some actions only make sense from scum.

This. There is a stark difference between someone who isn't helping town (anti-town) and someone who is scummy. Blurring the lines is sloppy scumhunting.

[pappums rat]

yes, i suppose that is true, but i have never claimed to be a good scumhunter, and am in fact a rather poor one.

[InflatablePie]

@Llama: why do you think gonnano is scum, but GW is town? Curious, since they're both acting slightly similar.

No they arent. GW gave off a boatload of town tells early on, gonno really hasnt given off any strong town tells, just quite a few scum tells.

I haven't really seen the "boatload of town tells", nor have I seen any major scumtells from gonnano. I'll have to read into them more I suppose. Especially the latter.

[smargaret]

yes, i suppose that is true, but i have never claimed to be a good scumhunter, and am in fact a rather poor one.

This does not sit well with me. Are you trying to excuse your future presence on a mislynch or something?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Rat

I also haven't seen any towntells from GW. He hasn't posted enough to have a boatload of anything.

[ThAdmiral]

@Llama: why do you think gonnano is scum, but GW is town? Curious, since they're both acting slightly similar.

No they arent. GW gave off a boatload of town tells early on, gonno really hasnt given off any strong town tells, just quite a few scum tells.

Vote rat

A "boatload of towntells"?
Can you point them out to me?

[Furcolow]

vote: theadmiral

[XScorpion]

^^ Explain. Don't be anti-town.

It looks like my vote is stuck where it is because Poisonivy is simply ignoring me at this point.

[Beasts of the Sea]

(And for what it's worth, if you're scum, I think option #2 is more likely than #4, because your posts just don't read like bussing. Though at the moment, I still rank PI as more suspicious than you, hence a vote on her and a FoS on you.)

What is this nonsense? So what you're essentially saying is that the person you're voting for is town, and the person you're FoSing is scum, and is voting for the townie that you're also voting for?

If you read the section immediately following my unvote, and the later post where I explain it some more, maybe it will seem less inexplicable to you. The reason that I initially voted for PI but haven't voted Furcolow is that most of the things I've seen from him are anti-town, whereas PI's posts seem scummy. Anti-town is bad, but it takes a whole lot of anti-townness to deserve a vote.

Backpedaling already? In the quote above you make it quite obvious that there is a clear distinction between PoisonIvy being "scummy", but Furcolow only being "anti-town". But before, you said nothing of the sort. HUGE difference. In fact, before you said clearly that Furcolow was becoming increasingly scummy. Nowhere in your observations of Furcolow did you say "anti-town" and your explanation that you cited only came after you were called out for it. If the PoisonIvy lynch falls through you will eat rope. If PoisonIvy does go through; you eat rope tomorrow.

Sathoris 203 - I brought up your explanation of your unvote of you random day one vote because I don't recall seeing that done before. I just said it was interesting, but your reaction seems a little ultra responsive. Do you think trivial remarks are scummy? Have you seen any other trivial remarks in the game or do you only comment on the ones that have your name in them? As for the Furcolow read, I don't feel I need to explain anymore. I've seen enough of his games to have a strong town read and the entire 24 hours of talking before the game pretty much clears him in my eyes; plus the fact that scummy people keep trying to lynch him helps my read considerably.

The only reason I'm not voting you [PoisonIvy] is that I'm not comfortable with the vote count that high at this point in the game.

Why not? Scum should be lynched before she has time to weasel her way out of it or her partners have a chance to frame someone else. And now that she is down to seven votes do you feel more comfortable voting now?

Oh, yes, I'm scum who someone avoided both wagons, hasn't voted anyone, and has effectively done nothing visible to anyone else. Because that makes complete and utter sense. After all, it's not like either of these wagons have a decent chance of going through to a lynch, right? Oh, and save the WIFOM bullshit defense anyone tries to play. This is common sense. It'd be the dumbest thing to do as scum. And I'm not a dumb player.

So you haven't voted; you have avoided commenting on both major wagons, and have effectively done nothing visible to anyone else. That is town behavior how? And saying "save the WIFOM bullshit" doesn't negate the fact that it is WIFOM.

Hey guise! lets just hang me and the rest of ye guise can have fun disecting my farce of a wagon.

Ya know, actual substance. What people are doing are hanging back and delaying the inevitable.

Ive given my thoughts and opinions and as it is not good enough and i am the only wagon with so many "haters" then by all accounts my flipping should shed light on many varies of peoples.

You still have not responded to my reasons for voting you in the first place.

I don't see how the PI or Furc wagons are "bad". More VC analysis for later is always good, and these people are being voted for being legitimately scummy; especially PI I feel.

The one thing I like is bringing up Rat's post.

With only one on your list I agree with...

unvote, Vote: pappums rat

You believe that the one comment of pappums rat overrides the "legitimately scummy" wagons? Is there more to the pappums rat case that you feel warrants a vote over the two other people you agree with their wagons?

[XScorpion]

Yet some people here have a very arrogant knack of twisting things...... or..... uh...... i mean "misreading".

Stop fucking whining. If you are so upset about people misreading/twisting things then EXPLAIN WHAT YOU'RE SAYING WHEN I ASK YOU.

[Artem]

I think this is the game that you're looking for, Artem

Fur is right about PoisonIvy posting walls of text as town, though not really any less or more than she does in this game. The part he forgot to mention is that he also posted walls of text as town in that game. I especially love this gem:

If you knew my meta, you would realize I don't put in nearly this much effort when I am scum, and I am a blathering idiot.

So, I'd like an explanation from Fur behind why he's playing his self-proclaimed scum meta in this game?

Unvote; Vote: Furcolow

@PoisonIvy: You say you're still sure XScorpion is scum. Why? What do you think about his response on your points and questions towards you? Mind answering my question about pro-town motivation behind bringing up investigations in ISO 2?

@Beasts:

So what you're essentially saying is that the person you're voting for is town, and the person you're FoSing is scum, and is voting for the townie that you're also voting for?

That's one potential scenario, yes. Another potential scenario is that I'm voting (well, was) for a scum and you're a townie who's also voting for the same scum. Yet a third, and in my opinion least likely, scenario is that you're a scum bussing your partner. You seem to think that I should consider the last scenario to be most likely, though I think I understand the confusion. You seem to think that I view everybody I vote / FoS as scum simultaneous, whereas I pursue multiple scenarios at the same time to try and nail down the most likely one.

@People voting Rat: What do you think about the speed of the wagon you're on?

[LimMePls]

Sorry guys, I've been pretty disinterested in mafia lately. Why haven't we lynched PI yet?

[gonnano]

Not liking gonnano's response too well. It seems like scum waiting for a wagon, just like GW.

You mean a wagon like the PI wagon? or the Furcolow wagon? or the rat wagon that's starting now? If I were just waiting for a wagon, don't you think I would have found one by now?

Backpedaling already? In the quote above you make it quite obvious that there is a clear distinction between PoisonIvy being "scummy", but Furcolow only being "anti-town". But before, you said nothing of the sort. HUGE difference. In fact, before you said clearly that Furcolow was becoming increasingly scummy. Nowhere in your observations of Furcolow did you say "anti-town" and your explanation that you cited only came after you were called out for it. If the PoisonIvy lynch falls through you will eat rope. If PoisonIvy does go through; you eat rope tomorrow.

"becoming increasingly scummy" is not the same as "Furcolow is scum". I am of the opinion that if someone does enough anti-town stuff, it contributes somewhat to the possibility of them being scum. Furcolow may tend to be anti-town regardless of alignment, but I think it's reasonable to say that as scum a player would exploit their meta to get by with as much anti-town behavior as possible. Hence me counting Furcolow's staggering amount of anti-town statements against him as points toward scumminess.
To recap: becoming and being are two different things.

Thought I'd post this again... It seems to have been missed earlier.

I don't mind people being suspicious of me, but I'd like to see some actual points that I can respond to. Soo... If you've been calling for a gonnano wagon/investigation, some reasons would be cool.

As was this...

@ PoisonIvy see post 173.

which pointed to this:

Gonnano. Im interested when there is something to disect. When ones actions genuinely ARE scummy. I dont see how dismantling potential set ups when there have been no kills is particularily a good use of time. I will become more interested in the case maybe lter but as of right now meh......

I'm not really sure what this means... are you interested in wagoning me? the comments/accusations that I've made? or just interested in dissection in general?
Whose actions are genuinely scummy? Who has been dismantling set ups? What do you mean by dismantling?

I'd appreciate some elaboration, because I'm not quite getting this.

----------------------------------
For those of you who have been anxious about me not voting, you'll be happy to know that I have found an excellent candidate.
VOTE: Lowell

Here's a comprehensive representation of every single thing he has done in this game so far:
1. votes GW for "meta-talk, setup-talk, take your pick". Goes into no more detail. Disappears until...
2. he comes back to find that his explanationless wagon hasn't magically taken off without any effort or a real case from him, so he parks a vote on me because I unvoted PI. He gives some weaksauce misrepresentation of my actions to support this vote. Disappears until...
3. he comes back to find that his wagon hasn't magically taken off without any effort or a real case from him, so he parks a vote on GW.
4. finally gets around to explaining that very first vote, by way of accusing GW of doing something that would be an improvement on what he himself is doing, which is nothing.

It doesn't get much scummier than that.

[bvoigt]

Not liking gonnano's response too well. It seems like scum waiting for a wagon, just like GW.

You mean a wagon like the PI wagon? or the Furcolow wagon? or the rat wagon that's starting now? If I were just waiting for a wagon, don't you think I would have found one by now?

PI was your only vote before now. And you supported the Furcolow wagon:

Furcolow is steadily becoming more and more scummy to me

Not to mention the Admiral wagon:

I don't particularly object to a ThAdmiral wagon right now, but I'd like to see what exactly people are finding so scummy about him before I buy in. What vague posts or hints at inside information has he made?

And now that I've mentioned it, this is an extremely scummy quote. You wouldn't mind a wagon on him, even though you don't know why he's scummy? This looks exactly like scum waiting for a reason to get someone lynched.

[smargaret]

I would feel more comfortable voting PI now, except GW made himself look scummier and I only have one vote. It was more the speed than the votecount, and the fact that there were people who hadn't posted at all.

[Furcolow]

Artem, I am not playing behind my "supposed scum meta" whatsoever.
If you see me as unhelpful and scummy here, you should see me as scum.

Just sayin'.

[Lowell]

Aww, gonnano's sad that I voted him.

Also your points are nonsense. I'd have loved a wagon on you, but I'm not about to pull a groin muscle trying. There's time enough. The GW case, incidentally, is far better than that on PI or ThAdmiral.

[Furcolow]

What do you see the GW case as being, Lowell?
In your own words, please, not quoted from someone else.
IF you want to quote GhostWriter himself, though, go for it. Just don't sheep off of anyone else.

[ThAdmiral]

I don't particularly object to a ThAdmiral wagon right now, but I'd like to see what exactly people are finding so scummy about him before I buy in. What vague posts or hints at inside information has he made?

And now that I've mentioned it, this is an extremely scummy quote. You wouldn't mind a wagon on him, even though you don't know why he's scummy? This looks exactly like scum waiting for a reason to get someone lynched.

This is a very good catch.
A lynch of gonanno or ghost writer today would make me very happy.

[Lowell]

GW in iso:

0- pre-game questions
1- meta discussion of setup
2- re: pre-game questions
3- re: pre-game questions
4- meta discussion of setup
5- meta discussion of setup
6- asks why he is being voted
7- re: pre-game questions
8- re: pre-game questions
9- commenting on a wagon
10- commenting on a wagon
11- commenting on a wagon
12- explains why he isnt' voting
13- commenting on a wagon
14- commenting on a wagon/self-defense
15- asks why he is being voted

The only posts even resembling original content are posts 9 and 11, both of which are two lines explaining why he

isn't

voting someone. Everything else is metachat or targetting his own self-preservation. The only subject that seems to interest him at all is why someone is voting him. He's going out of his way to avoid talking about anything that could be even the slightest bit risky.

[Nachomamma8]

Glorious, glorious catchup posting.

And there is a miller in our midts. FYI its not me.

>.>

No. Im saying i have no qualms about being investigated if someone deems me worthy of it. Im not going "Oh! COP COP!! Pick me! Pick meee!" Do not twist my words.

MAFIA GODFATHER HI

Okay, so it's no secret that I hate the RQS because it's generally useless and guaranteed to be stupid, but I don't really view Furcolow as the type who would plot to use RQS to drown the town in noise. Hell, I don't see most people seeing that way, so the fact that Llama views Furcolow that way nets him a :S from me. I see how RQS is anti-town. But scummy?

I don't like PI's buddying to Llama, though. I can see the whole kissing the feet of the guy who invalidates everything that's been brought up against you coming from town or scum; nobody likes pressure. But the whole "you share the same opinion of furcolow as I" when Llama finds furc scummy and you just wanted him policy lynched is suspicious.

XScorp is town, and I promise not to backtrack on this read for a loss in LyLo later

smargaret, what's wrong with not being able to vote for a developing wagon that might lead to a lynch, but being able to place a random vote down that most certainly won't lead to a lynch? why don't you find people who ignored everything that was going on and just placed down a random vote scummier?

Thad begins his great scum rampage by answering age-old RQS questions he know he won't be attacked on, addressing an age-old proposal to policy lynch Furc, and then hopping on the largest bandwagon of the time.

HELLO TOWN RC!

Okay, let's play hypotheticals with the PoisonIvy situation.
Hypothetical 1: Ivy recieves an American, town role PM with the wincon "You win when all threats to peace are killed". This role PM contains nothing but a link to a person and a little bit of flavor that has nothing to do with anyone else. For someone with minimal knowledge of the cold war, it wouldn't be a huge jump to assume "okay, americans = good guys, soviets = bad guys", and the Soviets are the threats to peace.
Hypothetical 2: Ivy recieves a Soviet, scum role PM with the wincon "You win when all Soviets survive". Her scumbuddies are Soviets. However, I can guarantee to you that the mafia have something in their role PM about being a threat to peace. This doesn't imply that the town roles are all Americans at all. So in order to even assume Americans versus Soviets, it would require minimal knowledge about the cold war.
In other words, all the wincon thing proves is that PoisonIvy doesn't know her stuff.

smarg is scum again. I can smell it.

More scum funtime from Thad! He gets mad at Furc telling PoisonIvy to make a "good solid wall", continues to push the PoisonIvy lynch without any reasoning, continues to post absolutely no content...

[XScorpion]

MAFIA GODFATHER HI

Omfg if you're right I'm going to do a song and dance XD

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama: why do you think gonnano is scum, but GW is town? Curious, since they're both acting slightly similar.

No they arent. GW gave off a boatload of town tells early on, gonno really hasnt given off any strong town tells, just quite a few scum tells.

Vote rat

A "boatload of towntells"?
Can you point them out to me?

Just about all of his early posts.

They may be flavor speculation like people are saying, but this is the good type. He is shutting down people pushing on PI who really dont get the complexity of what the Cold War really was. It was not only soviets/americans, and depending on your political viewpoints, people may have different views on who was good and bad.

While there isnt that much scumhunting from GW, just about all of his points are deadon for what town should be thinking flavor and playwise this game.