Kids in the Hall Mafia - Game Over, Daves are Supreme

[DrippingGoofball]

KIDS IN THE HALL

DrippingGoofball
elvis_knits

CANDIDATES FOR STEADY BOYFRIEND

Mysterio
Kison

WORMS AND BUGS AND GRIT

imaginality
SpyreX > scum if farside isn't.
Porochaz
Umbrage
Internet Stranger
MrBuddyLee
Untrod Tripod
Medicated Lain
Lurconis
Mist Beauty
Amrun

ALTERNATE WINCON

farside22

IFFY

scooby
VP Baltar > needs to win heart back.

OMELET-EATING SCUM

popsofctown
Lord Gurgi
vollkan

[vollkan]

Your argument here entirely ignores what pops said entirely and strawmans him to be saying "because scooby claimed vanilla, we shouldn't lynch him". That's very different from what it appears pops was doing, namely backing away from a rushed claim.

He's backing away because he got what he wanted out of that wagon. As a scumbag, it's much more useful to leave vanillas alive and try to out a PR day 1. Scooby did nothing to change pops' opinion of him. So why should he unvote? vollkan buddy, methinks.

1. His post implies that he didn't expect the wagon to reach L-1 + claim
2. That being the case, it doesn't matter whether or not scooby changed "his opinion"; surely you can recognise that being willing to push a wagon early D1 is very different from being willing to see that wagon reach claiming stage (normally, you can just count on other people to have the good sense not to push it that far0
3. It's trite that scum want to hunt PRs. That doesn't mean that every instance of abandoning a wagon post-vanilla claim is scummy.

But since it was not a rushed claim, and since pops is scum, your VPB vote puts you in the pops-buddy category.

Whether or not

you

think it was rushed is beside the point. The issue is that pops' posts show pretty clearly that his behaviour was motivated by missing how far the VC had gone.

[DrippingGoofball]

Whether or not

you

think it was rushed is beside the point. The issue is that pops' posts show pretty clearly that his behaviour was motivated by missing how far the VC had gone.

Nope. Not buying it.

[vollkan]

Your argument here entirely ignores what pops said entirely and strawmans him to be saying "because scooby claimed vanilla, we shouldn't lynch him". That's very different from what it appears pops was doing, namely backing away from a rushed claim.

He's backing away because he got what he wanted out of that wagon. As a scumbag, it's much more useful to leave vanillas alive and try to out a PR day 1. Scooby did nothing to change pops' opinion of him. So why should he unvote? vollkan buddy, methinks.

Whether or not

you

think it was rushed is beside the point. The issue is that pops' posts show pretty clearly that his behaviour was motivated by missing how far the VC had gone.

Nope. Not buying it.

Then what's your reading of 227, 228?

[DrippingGoofball]

unvote, vote scooby

Sorry EK, I tend to overcorrect for omgus.

Pops is using miscount as an excuse for his VOTE. His vote comes right below a VOTECOUNT.

Right. Below.

[vollkan]

Pops is using miscount as an excuse for his VOTE. His vote comes right below a VOTECOUNT.

Right. Below.

And what's more likely:
a) that scum plans to cast an under-explained L-1 vote, then hope that an unsolicited claim occurs, and then backtrack if vanilla; or
b) null-pops didn't see the VC, voted in ignorance, then later realised his mistake.

As in all things, "cock-up before conspiracy"

[VP Baltar]

1. His post implies that he didn't expect the wagon to reach L-1 claim
2. That being the case, it doesn't matter whether or not scooby changed "his opinion"; surely you can recognise that being willing to push a wagon early D1 is very different from being willing to see that wagon reach claiming stage (normally, you can just count on other people to have the good sense not to push it that far
03. It's trite that scum want to hunt PRs. That doesn't mean that every instance of abandoning a wagon post-vanilla claim is scummy.

1 - lol, so? What's your point? So when someone does something scummy, as long as they go 'hardy har, my B!' you're ok with it? Since when are you so gullible?
2 -surely you can see that on page 10 or whatever you should be pushing for a lynch of someone scummy and not random wagoning? or is such laziness good town play in your book?
3 - It is fucking scummy. Hugely scummy. I expect serious votes only at this point in the game. RVS is done. If you're voting someone, it should be because you want them dead. Backing off for no reason shows me that you don't believe in your vote. That's what scum do.

Please continue with this garbage defense. You outting yourself as scum makes my life easier, since you're the lawyer type that can escape lynches.

[imaginality]

Any reason you avoided answering this, scooby?

[quote="imaginality 188]@scooby: why is SpyreX scum (as you stated in 142)? And, if you felt so strongly enough to state it as baldly as that, why didn't you vote him instead of pops?[/quote]

[vollkan]

1. His post implies that he didn't expect the wagon to reach L-1 claim
2. That being the case, it doesn't matter whether or not scooby changed "his opinion"; surely you can recognise that being willing to push a wagon early D1 is very different from being willing to see that wagon reach claiming stage (normally, you can just count on other people to have the good sense not to push it that far
03. It's trite that scum want to hunt PRs. That doesn't mean that every instance of abandoning a wagon post-vanilla claim is scummy.

1 - lol, so? What's your point? So when someone does something scummy, as long as they go 'hardy har, my B!' you're ok with it? Since when are you so gullible?
2 -surely you can see that on page 10 or whatever you should be pushing for a lynch of someone scummy and not random wagoning? or is such laziness good town play in your book?
3 - It is fucking scummy. Hugely scummy. I expect serious votes only at this point in the game. RVS is done. If you're voting someone, it should be because you want them dead. Backing off for no reason shows me that you don't believe in your vote. That's what scum do.

Please continue with this garbage defense. You outting yourself as scum makes my life easier, since you're the lawyer type that can escape lynches.

1. I'm not suggesting at all that "my bad, dude" is a universal get-out-of-jail-free card. As I explained in my answer to DGB, it's easy to say "Hah! No way was that a mistake" - but the same point cuts both ways, in that the scum-strategy theory is even more implausible (you basically have to assume that pops-scum was psychic). Whereas, I don't think it's at all unreasonable that he, in posting, would have missed a VC (when you are reading over posts, you focus on the important issues and may well skim past things that don't strike you as significant. If you aren't expecting a L-1 wagon, you don't look for it.)
2. and 3. By p.10 of a large game, people should be moving the game into proper territory. That doesn't mean pushing a serious (ie. lynch-worthy) wagon, but of course it does mean no longer playing randomly. The game doesn't simply reach a "breaking point" between RVS and non-RVS. It's more a gradual thing from pure silliness -> amorphous seriousness -> lynch-oriented scumhunting

[popsofctown]

I'm offended. You're saying I'm not psychic? Please stop with the personal attack volkan. This is the internet but words hurt. Don't be a bully.

[scooby]

Yeah, I asked for a much more specific answer, scooby.

I think the answer is pretty obvious: yes, I have played enough games to consider me not a noob.

unvote

I don't watch L- counts very closely. Sorry.

Err, you posted after a freaking votecount?

Scooby might still be scum. His lack of contribution post wagon-dissolution is unsettling.

I posted yesterday? Are you being purposely dense?

Any reason you avoided answering this, scooby?
[quote="imaginality 188]@scooby: why is SpyreX scum (as you stated in 142)? And, if you felt so strongly enough to state it as baldly as that, why didn't you vote him instead of pops?

[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]
Somehow I missed it, must be the fact that I answered 7 votes in one just post.
I have reliable meta on Spyrex: he is definitely more active in RVS. It's not as conclusive as an active tell like pops' one and the vote was more useful there so yeah.

Please answer the questions I made to you.

[scooby]

People, when I made that post, and when I took one hour of my time to post it, I wanted answers, so please provide them in your following post.

Gurgi: I don't even know what to make of this reason to vote me, what is this guide you are talking about?

UT:Can you elaborate on this? What exact part of my post made you fell the hardiness?

Prozac: Two things:
1. Why didn't you make this attack in your previous post 155?
2.

If you demand me do something straight away I will post a picture of two cats having sex and thats it.

How is this a valid reason to suspect someone?

volkan: I totally agree this, except with your thinking that the breaking point doesn't force players to make stances. The breaking point, that is the point where rvs starts to disappear and serious game starts, it's actually a critical point on the game where scum are forced to make early stances (For example, "should I keep joking in a game of 5 pages of jokey rvs or should I start making a serious vote like scumpartner A did?). You can understand the difference with "using good grammar" (the example you used) which, I agree, is a situation that isn't a valid differentiation.
I feel there is a theory disagreement, but why does this deserve a vote?

Kison: Ok, once again, let's assume for a second I'm wrong, why does this deserve a vote and an adhom?

volkan: It's not the same thing. You saying that roughly 25% of players of playerlist 1 will be scum, is not the same that saying that one of Players A,B,C,D of that playerlist will be scum (if somehow player B and X are on Lylo then you just have one more reason to vote player B).

imaginality: Why can't I be town happy to have found something I can legitimately challenge Umbrage about? Does this mean that you disagree with Umbrage about his attack against me?

Umbrage: Is this your prove?
Personal experience?
So do you think that the theory of "not all scum eggs on one basket" doesn't work? Because it does.

pops: There's a flaw in your argument. If you think I'm scum doing a weak attack, how is this a scumhunting method that can lose a game (implying I'm town)?

[scooby]

Other news:

Farside is speaking a lot of sense. Amrun is agressive. I like her. I miss mysterio and elvis.

Baltar is meh. Tone of his posts are slight town, though.

Besides pops who should die in a fire, I dislike DGB, Umbrage, imaginality and volkan. This could change after people answer my posts, but Gurgi and UT might also be scum.

[elvis_knits]

-Vollkan went professor mafia on Scooby telling him why his theory is crap, even though I think several people already did this. This wasn't horrible, but it made me tingle, and not the way that Kison makes me tingle. Reason is 1)Didn't add anything to convo; 2)If you're going to explain everything like the professor then tell me why you think his particular bad theory is more likely from scum than town.

1) I didn't think anybody had addressed the same issues as me, let alone in the same way. Umbrage had addressed the general Group A/Group B thing briefly, and gave his personal opinion that scum tend not divide up. I gave a more complete explanation of why I think the "all eggs in one basket" thinking is wrong. There's a difference between giving a separate, albeit largely concurring, opinion and simply repeating the arguments of others.

2) I actually pointed out in my previous post that I haven't assigned scooby scumpoints for this; maybe if it was later game, but I have a pretty wide RVS latitude

If you didn't assign scooby scumpoints for this, why did you vote him?? I didn't see other discussion directed at scooby from you.

SCUM:
LG
Pops
Vollkan
imaginality

[farside22]

1. His post implies that he didn't expect the wagon to reach L-1 + claim
2. That being the case, it doesn't matter whether or not scooby changed "his opinion"; surely you can recognise that being willing to push a wagon early D1 is very different from being willing to see that wagon reach claiming stage (normally, you can just count on other people to have the good sense not to push it that far0
3. It's trite that scum want to hunt PRs. That doesn't mean that every instance of abandoning a wagon post-vanilla claim is scummy.

1. He stated he ignored a vote count before voting. Why would a player do that?
2. Yet it happened and there was a vote count before he voted
3. I didn't see Pops unvote as hey I'm looking for a PR. I saw it as oops I screwed up and got caught at putting someone at L-1 early, back track, back track, back track.


His appeal to emotion is also very scummy. The hey look to DGB for asking for the claim and not me for putting him at l-1 is pointing fingers at others to make them look scummy.

And I tried to offer a glance into some of my own original thoughts in the post where i misvoted. You misinterpreted it: I meant that scooby's plan can fail FOR THE TOWN. But instead of asking for clarification your now just yelling that I had no original thought. Which apparently means the nonsense you thought it was is also a mistake other people have already posted in thread, I guess, otherwise it would be original phail.

I just quoted more then half the reason's people gave for their vote on scooby and my thoughts on what Volkan stated. Did any of my post sound like I agreed with anyone?

Now my rebuttal to Volkan: I'm not voting Pops for putting scobby at l-1 or "ignoring a vote count" (which I don't believe any town player should do).
I voted pops for jumping on a BW using other people's points of view. Every post I read there after with him explaining his "reasons" further doesn't make sense.

example:

The goal of the plan is to lynch scum. I was pointing out the plan could fail to reach its goal. That would make it a fail planned. A plan is a premeditated series of steps created in order to accomplish something. So if you don't accomplish that something, the plan is a failure.

THAT'S WHAT FAIL IS.

Someone please put this into a sentence I can understand.

Here is where gut comes in. The explanations from pops about his reason's really come off as someone who doesn't believe the stuff is he posting.

[elvis_knits]

Other news:

Farside is speaking a lot of sense. Amrun is agressive. I like her. I miss mysterio and elvis.

Baltar is meh. Tone of his posts are slight town, though.

Besides pops who should die in a fire, I dislike DGB, Umbrage, imaginality and volkan. This could change after people answer my posts, but Gurgi and UT might also be scum.

I think DGB and Umbrage are probably okay. Everyone else I agree with you. UT just seems like he's not doing anything except going with the wagons and not having any original thought or reasoning. I'm not hating him, but I do agree that he's one to watch.

[elvis_knits]

Here's a complete picture of my feelings.

SCUM:

Lord Gurgi
popsofctown
vollkan
imaginality

Almost scum:

UT

Owes me picture of cats having sex:

Prozac

Neutral:

VPB
Kison
Luconis
scooby

Needs to post more:

Internet Stranger
MrBuddyLee
Mysterio
Medicated Lain (slight town)
Mist Beauty (slight town)

Town:

DGB
farside
Umbridge
Amrun
Spyrex

[scooby]

Why do you think DGB is town?

[elvis_knits]

Well, I think she's hard to read in general so it's hard to say definitively, but I think she's giving good reads and making sense (except for her brainfreeze on imaginality, and her late vote on you). She seems to be scumhunting and giving original thoughts, don't see her really manipulating anything. Plus I <3 her, so I want to give her the benefit of the doubt until she pings my scumdar.

[Umbrage]

Ugh. Game's getting hard to read.

So... Amrun is town. I can read her like a book. Don't ask how, I just... get her.

After a bit of ISO, I can say with conviction that DGB is scum. A risky claim, but hear me out.

People. I was high and drunk when I voted for Farside. My initial post was my first post. At this point I'm asking about theory. I don't see why early meta reads should be any less legitimate than other early reads. Isn't meta most useful when you have the least information from other sources?

OK, so Lord Gurgi is scum.

Scooby's scumtells are pretty bad, and his division into groups not considering that I'm actually serious, but that doesn't make him Lord Gurgi's buddy.

scooby 142: "scum want to look active in the breaking point" -

I think this is projection

on scooby's part: he's scum and wants to look active, and he's projecting that logic onto everyone else.
scooby 148: "Prove this. Now." This is very much a gut hunch, but that abrupt response sounds to me like it could come from scum happy to have found something they can legitimately challenge someone about.

This sort of argument is like a siren's song to me.

VOTE: Scooby

Just to recap:

a) Gurgi is scum.
b) Scooby may or may not be Gurgi's buddy.
c) Sheep onto Scooby's wagon.

@scooby: why is SpyreX scum (as you stated in 142)? And, if you felt so strongly enough to state it as baldly as that, why didn't you vote him instead of pops?

FOS buddy, vote townie?

So, now SpyreX is scooby's buddy?

unvote, Vote: EK

I think I was correct in my RVS vote actually. He did claim to be high when he made the vote. EK not reading back over that interaction at this point to double check herself makes me suspicious.

Hello scum. Your buddy, Lord Gurgi, forgot that "RL excuses" are planet-sized scum tells. You should bus him.

AND VP Baltar is Lord Gurgi's buddy?

I'm not seeing a scum motive for Gurgi to launch an attack on farside so early and then try and back out of it.

Maybe his distancing attempt backfired when a wagon was created out of it.

Distancing implies scumbuddies.

OK, so to be clear, Gurgi is scum with farside and VP Baltar, while scooby is scum with SpyreX. Got it?

That was longer that it should be but could have been more.

Okay pops wagon is go now right?

scooby, can you tell me your mafia experience, please?

I have played mafia before.

CLAIM STALL

HAMMER PLEASE

VOTE: Lord Gurgi

These two posts were right after each other in the ISO. Yeah.

unvote

Now DGB forced a claim even though no one declared intent to hammer <_< yell at her, not me.

Since when do you need an intent to hammer when at L-1 for claiming? YOU ARE WITHIN IDIOT-QUICKHAMMERING RANGE.

In other words, pops is scum.

But is he on Gurgi's team or scooby's team?

Scooby might still be scum. His lack of contribution post wagon-dissolution is unsettling.

MIGHT be scum? You were just screaming for his lynch! Now you feel he's 'unsettling'?

KIDS IN THE HALL

DrippingGoofball
elvis_knits

CANDIDATES FOR STEADY BOYFRIEND

Mysterio
Kison

WORMS AND BUGS AND GRIT

imaginality
SpyreX > scum if farside isn't.
Porochaz
Umbrage
Internet Stranger
MrBuddyLee
Untrod Tripod
Medicated Lain
Lurconis
Mist Beauty
Amrun

ALTERNATE WINCON

farside22

IFFY

scooby
VP Baltar > needs to win heart back.

OMELET-EATING SCUM

popsofctown
Lord Gurgi
vollkan

What happened to SpyreX? And how did vollkan get into the picture?

unvote

I don't watch L- counts very closely. Sorry.

Now DGB forced a claim even though no one declared intent to hammer <_< yell at her, not me.

lynch this scumbag now. gets a vanilla claim and suddenly the lynch is no good anymore? YOU MAY AS WELL CLAIM SCUM NOW.

Scumpoints time.

VPB+5

Vote: VPB

Your argument here entirely ignores what pops said entirely and strawmans him to be saying "because scooby claimed vanilla, we shouldn't lynch him". That's very different from what it appears pops was doing, namely backing away from a rushed claim.

But since it was not a rushed claim, and since pops is scum, your VPB vote puts you in the pops-buddy category.

This is the only post she made on vollkan. So why does he rate in higher scumminess than scooby, who YOU TRIED TO LYNCH?

Now, I've never played with DGB before, is this standard for her? Because it looks scummy as hell to me. She's willing to get a lynch on anybody, and cries 'buddying' at every opportunity. And as funny as the 'seeking boyfriend' thing was, she's been dragging it out for a while now, and I'm wondering if she's using it as a distraction from her play.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

PEDIT: IRONNNNNNNNNNNNY!!!!!!!! (cookie if you know that sketch)

[Kison]

Do you want to play house with me?

Only if Elvis plays, too.

Kison: Ok, once again, let's assume for a second I'm wrong, why does this deserve a vote and an adhom?

You were trying to focus on a group of people based on a theory that, even if right, did not at all improve our chances of actually finding scum. Why did I vote you. Because your hunting was useless, distracting words. I might have called you a nasty name, but that was all because I'm a nice guy.

I was originally going to give popsofctown a pass for the L-1 vote, especially considering my vote was double. Now I see he posted right below a vote count. I question how he didn't notice that, especially with that red, juicy beacon that kind of stands out. However, I don't really see myself pulling that kind of stunt if I was scum, so I'm not fully convinced it was him being slimy based on this alone.

That aside, the vote itself looks like crap, and I question the excuse of the timing(doesn't vote until everyone else does, later says it's because he "couldn't read" scooby). To me it looks like he just decided to hop on when the wagon was hot.

UT's vote also looks like crap. He needs to comment on someone besides the Scoobs and with some indication of critical thinking, stat.

popsofctown:

You claim your vote was an oversight. Many claim that is unlikely. Instead of more useless demands of explanation from you, I want you to tell me who you think the scum are, and why. You stand to win the omelette I just made. Or two more votes.

[VP Baltar]

@ Umbrage - DGB requires daily meds and close monitoring. I wouldn't get too worked up about her. Meanwhile, pops is still scum and needs to die asap so scum can NK me out of fear.

[Untrod Tripod]

unvote scooby

well I guess this wagon is over. also I have no reason to think he's lying about his role at the moment so I guess it's time to reread his wagon.

woo.

ninjaedit: I'll say this, I don't it's smart to try to meta DGB...

doubleninjaedit: lolwut? you're upset that I was [mostly] shamelessly bandwagonning? cool. well I guess you're in luck, because you'll either love my wagon analysis or...uh...I dunno

[SpyreX]

Umbrage:

You MAY be right about DGB. However that will come out in the wash.

Pops though is for scum and for death right now.

[elvis_knits]

OK pops first

unvote

VOTE: popsofscumtown