Mafiascum.net

↑ ewo2 wrote:

Mod: please prod Venrob in accordance with rule 13.
Mod: please replace McLucien18 in accordance with rule 13.

He cites the SPECIFIC RULE, for god's sake. And you're telling me this guy, who has never seen a game where scum couldn't chat before the game started, and who reread the rules in order to cite the damn corresponding rule, would defer to the mod with that question? I don't think so. And shortly thereafter, nh makes two posts to really drill home how he misread the rules, then to confirm that he didn't get a scum pm by agreeing with pasch. This comes across as very scummy.

This comment is where I first started suspecting him. He posts about NH quoting a rule, but missing the PMs that let Scum know they could talk pregame. I read the rules twice, but glossed over the PMs, which I'm assuming is not that rare.

↑ ewo2 wrote:

↑ Wiibox3 wrote:
Maybe, or this could be a very good scum play. He may have read the rules closely and noticed pre-day 1 talk was only mentioned in the PM. So if someone asked the mod, or noticed the PM he could say he totally missed it. This would be a great way to clear him in the eyes of the town.

That would be a huge stretch.

Then he brushes off my comment about the possibility of Pasch scheming.

↑ Paschendale wrote:

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:

↑ Wiibox3 wrote:Also so far jambecca and ewo are the only people I have truly suspected as scum, so your statement is correct. I haven't voted ewo because I didn't want to end the day early.

How is my statement correct if you have found people you believe to be scum? From what you say there only the latter half of it is correct, so why are you calling the whole statement correct?
Why haven't you announced that you had considered ewo to be scum? This is the first you've mentioned him to be on your scumdar.

Wiibox, if you think Ewo is scum and that he should be lynched, you should announce the intent to hammer. Maybe even ask for a claim. Don't dawdle around. Get the intention out in the open so we can discuss it.

I do intend on hammering unless anything changes before the day comes to a close.

There's an intent to hammer. Ewo, got a claim?

@City - I explained "not scum" already, not going to do it again. Read for yourself.

And then you say my wagon's losing steam so it's "on to the next person the town thinks is scummiest, let's see if I can get them lynched!" Shortly thereafter you're "out of attack angles".

@Herr - yeah, I knew I was at L-1. I find it weird that City would think I didn't know that (and how he could forget about it and think it was the first time I was at L-1 at all) considering City made a BOLDED post directed to the mod reminding him that I was at L-1.

City, Cheery is one hundred percent right with what he's been saying about you. It's very clear that you're just looking to get someone lynched and grasping for reasons to do so (even admitting that you were "out of attacks" so you left me wagon). You revoted me when pressured to do so. These are not town actions. To further that point I completely agree with what Herr says, replacements (especially scum) tend to reread the game and then mimic what players they consider "town" have said, then throw their vote on one of the wagons. Now you slink away because you've drawn attention.

I still want Johnny's response to my points but City is very clearly scum based on his recent actions.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: City

And yeah, I am vanilla. Watch City if I die - I'll do an ISO read if I have time before I get hammered.

↑ ewo2 wrote:@MM - did you know that scum could chat before the game started before the mod clarified?

Do you think she will answer honestly if she is scum?

↑ JasonWazza wrote:MM interjects right in the middle of that debate with Scum had N0 talk and she will be looked at for her knowledge of the Scum's PM

Not only that, but once the town knows that scum could communicate, Pasch would be pseudo conf-town. Scum would avoid trying to confirm town members even slightly.

↑ Paschendale wrote:Weak reasoning is enough to abandon the read Ewo has been so intent on before? That feels like opportunism to me. I feel fairly confident in my vote on Ewo.

Could very well be opportunism. But to be honest, I saw some issues with Johnny's post as well, and I even briefly considering moving my vote there, so I can understand ewo doing this as either town or scum.

↑ JasonWazza wrote:In re-read this sticks out just a little, why not do a P-Edit? would that not be more beneical to explain to new players?

I can understand the wagoning though it just sticks out a little in my mind.

By all means explain things but their is always such a thing as over explaining, and in this case i think it is on the verge of doing so.

It was a few weeks ago, so I'm not sure I'm remembering my reasons correctly. I think I felt that separating it into a different post would draw more emphasis to this reasoning, which I felt would be a good idea to explain, both as a member of the town as an IC.

↑ JasonWazza wrote:Wiibox and Paschendale are Scum because they didn't follow your train of thought?
I understand you are IC but your not the only one that can be right about everything and they made a competing wagon by both voting nekoko so what is the problem then?

No, they are (very slightly) scummy for avoiding taking a stance on the two wagons. And Pasch later made moves that made me feel he is town.

↑ JasonWazza wrote:Post #73 wiibox3

Calls out Paschndale again but still doesn't change his vote, seriously he has a scum read over his RVS and he votes the RVS

Although this is normally a legitimate concern, I went and checked the post in question, and wii gave a reason that I can easily believe a newb giving. Although, if he just didn't want to L-1, he should have voted after others unvoted. What happened with this scumread of yours wii?

↑ JasonWazza wrote:Wish i could use spoiler tags to organize this but oh well

I know dat feel bro

VOTE: MissMaggot

For the following reasons;
a) withholding info that could possibly help town
b) For trying to get people to watch a slot with no posting had (making it seem like you have prior knowledge of that slot.)

This is an acceptable vote. Most of the catchup post was repeating others or calling out newbie mistakes, but this vote gets Jason townpoints. Scum could have easily hopped on the ewo wagon with little friction. I will say that this seems short for a catchup post, though.

The subsequent posts between Jason (also Pasch) and MM just drive home the point that her baseless posts were sketchy at best.

Post 184, City's intro post, is interesting. I'll go through all of it, because I have stuff to comment on.
The first page is empty. Second, he comes to the aid of Nekoko (Me) even though the points made are no longer relevent (they barely were when they were brought up). One thing:

↑ CityElectric wrote:Post 33 marks Wiibox3's (Wii) first post that is actually helpful. In a way...

How is it helpful?

Mostly his reads mirror mine at the end of P2.
I need to remember to check and see if Pasch responds to everything in this post

↑ CityElectric wrote:ewo posts a full list of reads in Post 69, in which he discusses everyone, but McLucien and nham... I can understand ignoring McLucien, as he's said absolutely nothing at that point, but why ignore nham? He has said things to react to...

Did not notice this before. Good find!

Most of that page is repetition
QUICK SE ADVICE: City calls into question people answering questions not directed at them, which is good.
The rest of this page was just more Paschbashing. (That's fun to say, Paschbashing)
Not a lot changed on page five, same with City's reads.
HE NOTICED MY SYNONYMS. Town points for reading my entire post.

↑ CityElectric wrote:Wii posts something, which assures Johnny of his townieness. And, acutally, he's right. Wii's post does score him nice townie points.

This says "No one disagreed with him, so I better just nod and go with it". Why did it make him townie?
Nothing interesting to say, doesn't say anything about his read on MEon page six or seven...

↑ CityElectric wrote:Dog: agree with virtually all of his posts. Town.
nham: stays calm, makes good arguments against ewo's case on him. Town.
Johnny: not always the best arguments, but he asks good questions. Town.
Pasch: had him as scum first, but he slowly moved away from that read. Null-leaning town.
MM: the opposite of Pasch. Had her as town at first, but she's done a few questionable things which makes me not sure sure of that read anymore... Null-leaning town.
Jason: too little content to swing either way yet. Null.
Wii: a bit of a fluffy poster in the beginning, but becomes more substancial later on. I'm not really sure what to do with him. Null
ewo: my strongest scum read atm. His case on nham was not so good at best. Scum-leaning null.

You have one scumread, which is weak, but at the time of this post I only had one as well. Good post overall.
MOVING ON

Our two replacements talking about lurkerpolicy. Boring.

Dog votes Ewo. Good.

Dog asks Jason to defend his replacee. Bad.

Jason actually does it well. Null.

Good pressure on Jason from Mutt, and he read several games in both players' meta. If Dog isn't town I'll eat my hat. (assuming he isn't lying about reading)

199 Pasch keeps the blinders on MM and ignores the two replacements. hmmmm

HEY LOOK, A CASE ON ME

↑ ewo2 wrote:

In said Johnny post, I see a lot of mimicking of the popular opinions at the time each post he comments on was made. This makes sense - it's hard coming into a game partway through without being able to ask your own questions. However, he calls me out for having the same opinions he does to that point (which I find odd, since he agrees with what I say). He also sheeps nh at nearly every chance he's got. As stated, most of what Johnny says in that post is really not necessary, as the majority of his comments are just "I agree" or "I disagree" and don't provide anything new or shed original light on scenarios. He seems to be trying to establish himself in the game as a neutral player, and makes sure to sidle up to the players that are generally agreed upon as town - in short, nothing controversial at all (other than advocating a policy lynch, which I'll come back to), which makes his post seem more self-serving than useful.

Can't really argue that it looks that way. I tried to make my opinion clear on every major issue that arose and stated reasons why, so that's all I can really do. Two points of contention though,
1) Sheeping NH in my mind = voting with him. I did not immediately do that, but instead voted HIM for reasons clearly stated in the post.
2) Those very reasons had not been mentioned before, so my entire post, in fact, was NOT just mimicking everyone else.

Additionally, while Johnny states that his two biggest scumreads are on myself and nh, it's bizarre to me that he'd list us both as scum while actively acknowledging that he doesn't think we're a scumteam.

I had a scumread on both of you. Why is that bizarre?

Johnny slinks off his idea of a policy lynch after he's been called out on it. Johnny also focuses a hell of a lot on sematics with regards to nh. He even does a reread of other games in order to clear nh for the charges Johnny himself made. To be honest this looks a lot like distancing, which nh looked to be doing with nekoko way back at the start of the day.

First, Policy lynching is more of a playstyle choice. Either you're for them or you're against them. As I said, since I'm in the minority, I won't pursue it.
Distancing usually works in reverse, as in scum-me builds a case against scum-nh so that when scum-nh gets killed I look all townie. How does him becoming one of my townreads help us in this theoretical situation?

↑ nhammen wrote:hmm... good catch. Can you show me those games?

I can't decide if this is incredibly townie or incredibly scummy, but I just felt I needed to say something about it. Normally, this would be a townread, but Joyous Pooch is so firmly planted in all of our townreads that it kind of looks like you're looking for reasons to suspect him. Meh, null.

↑ nhammen wrote:Not only that, but he is sheeping me, when I am the player that he claims to have found most scummy at the time. Players don't sheep someone they are suspicious of in general. That post seriously bothered me.

I arrived at the same conclusions you did and have acted on them accordingly. I know nothing for certain at this stage, so to assume that I should form reads that oppose my suspects' is just silly, especially D1 when I can so easily be wrong.

Jason, 207's reasoning for gaining nothing from the "scripted" debacle is hard to understand. Care to expand?

↑ ewo2 wrote:Oh god. I'm sorry. The replace ins/outs are not making this easy especially when two of them start with J.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Johnny

Confusion aside, why wait to vote me? I hadn't said anything since your case was presented.

↑ Paschendale wrote:Weak reasoning is enough to abandon the read Ewo has been so intent on before? That feels like opportunism to me. I feel fairly confident in my vote on Ewo.

Still not even acknowledging City's entry post. You're featured in it. A lot.

Re-read out of NOWHERE from Jason
Mostly decent questions or comments, nothing really interesting and nothing directed at me. The vote is just wrong. Wii hasn't give content, but he has given content. He calls me town though~

A couple posts from our Canine friend.

Damn fine pressure on ewo courtesy of City.

Dog.... unvotes ewo and votes Wii? We're lynching lurkers already?

Not much to talk about for the first half of page 10. Defense from ewo and a clarification on this ridiculous language we speak.

Welcome HerrRudi. Love the Avy.

Bwaaaaat?! You're out of attack angles so you just hop off a big scumread and get on the next wagon? Because "everyone seems to be moving away" from that target? No. If he's scum, vote him. Ask others why they're not. Unless your read changes or someone else gets scummier, there is no reason to move your vote. That's just bad play.

I'll comment on Wii tomorrow... this took longer than I thought it would and I need sleep

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:

Dog.... unvotes ewo and votes Wii? We're lynching lurkers already?

Wii was the next scummiest after I decided that my case on ewo didn't have enough reasons for existence.
While Wii has been a lurker, that's not the major reason why I think he is scum.
He has only produced reasons when pressured and I'm still not fully convinced of his reasonings for his votes thus far.

↑ Wiibox3 wrote:
This comment is where I first started suspecting him. He posts about NH quoting a rule, but missing the PMs that let Scum know they could talk pregame. I read the rules twice, but glossed over the PMs, which I'm assuming is not that rare.

So why didn't you comment on it when you found it scummy?
You did talk about that post earlier, however it was a different part of that post, you never mentioned anything about this part of it being scummy then. In fact you didn't talk about it at all until now.

↑ Wiibox3 wrote:
I do intend on hammering unless anything changes before the day comes to a close.

So you're only happy to do it as a deadline lynch?

↑ ewo2 wrote:
What is the deal with replacements in this game? Is this the norm for newbie games?

this is normal, all my games have had about the same amount of replaces.

↑ CityElectric wrote:Well, there goes another question unanswered... Thanks MM.

ikr

↑ HerrRudi wrote:as I get crucified for quick hammering in one of my first few posts after replacing into a slot that has been under some pressure from the likes of JasonWazza. Nice gambit to guarantee 2 mislynches, but I'm not playing

Yeah what? i stopped doing that, last time that happened it was policy lynching town

I'd kick your ass and keep my eye on you but no i wouldn't policy lynch you.

But why me and not anyone else?

↑ Wiibox3 wrote:

↑ JasonWazza wrote:

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:A slot that hasn't posted is also withholding information from the town, just not publicly withholding said information.

But site flaking is a null tell compared to deliberately withholding info

I am pretty sure that is not what C-Dog is saying. I don't think he is talking about site flakers, but just those that have opinions on the game and don't reveal them. Unlike MM who mentioned she had opinions on the game and did not tell us what they were.

@Jason. please explain the buddy points you give to ewo in post 207, I don't understand what you mean.

↑ JasonWazza wrote:
Post #73 wiibox3

Calls out Paschndale again but still doesn't change his vote, seriously he has a scum read over his RVS and he votes the RVS

At that point it was just a scum tell. I didn't think it to be enough to take pressure off of Nekoko, since I still wanted to see what she would say. When you are trying to put pressure on someone do you easily flip flop your vote from a slightly scummy comment in the beginning of the game?

↑ JasonWazza wrote:
Reads:
Wiibox3:

You have next to no content in this game and it is clear that you don't look like contributing and this is extremely scummy, this makes you very scummy in my mind, you seem to just active lurk this entire game.

Scum

Looking at a lot of your reads of my comments, you are either skimming them over and claiming there is no information or you have another reason for wanting to lynch me today. It maybe true that I added some "fluff" at the beginning of the day, but that was because I misunderstood the purpose of the themed game. This has been gone over already in this game, and I dropped it. It is interesting when I say that I am catching up and will reply later you call that "fluff", but when others do you say nothing.

1st point; i am pretty sure you didn't read what Cherry said.
2nd point; that was buddy points for ewo cause to me (and probs only me but i dunno) it felt like he was trying to buddy up to both me and MM in that post.
3rd point; that isn't flip flopping that is scum hunting
4th point; fluff and defense your not trying to find scum, that isn't something town does, it is something scum does cause they already know the scum that there are in the game.

This makes you look even more scummy to me.

Your still sitting up there on the fence, get off the fence or there will be even more splinters in your ass.

↑ CityElectric wrote:I'm sorry, but I doubt posting right now would be productive for anyone and only dig myself deeper in this hole I've dug myself in. I'll get to any questions and reasoning tomorrow after I've slept and thought everything over properly.

this is making my scumdar go crazy.

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:
Jason, 207's reasoning for gaining nothing from the "scripted" debacle is hard to understand. Care to expand?

Re-read out of NOWHERE from Jason
Mostly decent questions or comments, nothing really interesting and nothing directed at me. The vote is just wrong. Wii hasn't give

much

content, but he has given content. He calls me town though~

1. i think i answered up there
2. wait what, cause he calls you town it's ok that he gives jack shit?

And the re-read was my second re-read, first one is brief overview of how i feel as i go, second re-read is a detailed kick ass bit that i have after i got to this point in the game.

Pretty sure that covers everything, city looks slightly scummy now, though to answer his (or i think it was his) question; i want a wiibox3 lynch, he lurks, he only defends and he is yet to make a case or a decent scum read and to me it feels like he is hiding in the corner.

Since the initial case on Ewo started forming, he's actually been recovering pretty well. He's been more in defensive mode, but he hasn't made any bad arguments. His reasoning has become stronger. It's a town move to admit to a mistake and move on.



On the flip side, a lot of what Wiibox has been saying has been weak as hell. He looks like he's trying to find reasons to sheep other people. His statements have been very passive, and he really is only popping up when called upon. And I don't like how he's been acting over the hammer on Ewo. He's trying to push the responsibility off on others. Well, don't worry, you don't have to make that choice anymore.

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:IF YOU ARE TOWN, DO NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS DIRECTED AT OTHER PEOPLE.

So we're not allowed to defend people from being questioned on bogus reasons?

I don't understand how this can have anything to do with someones alignment, do you have reasons why doing doing it should be a scumtell? That's what that sentence is implying to me.

@Jason If I came in and just sheeped City like he soft sold it I would deserve a lynch D2. It would be a major distraction for the town too. Scum's best friend. That was more at what I was getting at. No attempt on my part to soil your name in that or call you out. Just stating a fact really.

I'm pretty set on not lynching ewo today so I hope that doesn't happen. Otherwise I agree a lot with what you guys have to say about wiibox and he's preference number 2 for the lynch in my book. Dancing around the hammer like that is hugely suspicious, and I can see the scum motivation behind especially coming from a newer player, feeling that hammering will draw too much attention to himself.

I really really think we should take out City though. Stuff like

"I'm not yet convinced of ewo's townieness, but I doubt his lynch will be going through. Meaning Wii is next on the list for a good round of question asking. Lemme start with one. Wii, what have you got to say about the current suspicion on you?" (Post 228)

and

"My god, that's about the furthest stretch I've ever read. I always welcome replacements, 'cause I feel it's common courtesy. They offer to replace in, and I applaud them for that. Read Newbie 1259 if you want proof. I asked that question about who you want to lynch right now to everyone, and not just to you, although I admit that wasn't clear from that post. However, I cleared that up myself in Post 240, because after reading Dog's post I realized my question wasn't clear. I asked this question I don't want a no-lynch day one, because that's basically is giving the scum a free kill. I've never even thought of coaxing you into sheeping me, 'cause I want everyone to think for themselves and reach their own conclusion" (Post 243)

The first is absolutely the most hilariously fake scum hunting ever. Let's really grill him guys, by asking him the most general possible question.

Also please refer to the bolded part in the second quote. OF COURSE EWO'S WAGON WAS STILL ON! YOU JUST PUT HIM AT L-1! You just soft sold me the wagon and you wanted that lynch while seeming disinterested in it, likely so you could just play it off later. You are pushing for a lynch without actually making it seem like your pushing it. Your tone is "Well, I guess he's scum. I'm not gonna not lynch him." Scumplay has this same exact empty, unmotivated rhetoric since you don't actually believe in the case in the first place. You are coming up with manufactured reasons, because you know he's town because as scum you have the information advantage.

Ok, Wii's little catchup doesn't really contain anything incredibly helpful. He's got an anti-town townread from me. I'm asserting, right now, that Wii's play is more newbie than scummy.

↑ JasonWazza wrote:wait what, cause he calls you town it's ok that he gives jack shit?

I was actually happy about YOU calling me town in the post containing your vote. Sorry, didn't make that clear. (I've said that a lot this game, haven't I)

Pasch, what mistake did he admit to?

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:IF YOU ARE TOWN, DO NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS DIRECTED AT OTHER PEOPLE.

So we're not allowed to defend people from being questioned on bogus reasons?

I don't understand how this can have anything to do with someones alignment, do you have reasons why doing doing it should be a scumtell? That's what that sentence is implying to me.

Two things:
1. Didn't say it was a scumtell (it's not), just told the town not to do it
2. Regardless of reasoning, a question directed at a certain individual is meant for individual. It may have a hidden purpose or meaning only known to the asker, and anything we could learn from the answer is ruined if someone else answers first. This is why I called it SE advice rather than saying it was scummy (because, once again, it's not. It's just poor play)

@Johnny: Ewo admitted to being mistaken on his case against Nhammen. Everyone makes mistakes, and I find that scum tend to try to play it off, rather than fess up. Scum are afraid of looking suspect for any reason. It's a risk to admit to a mistake, since some people will undoubtedly jump on it as a scumtell.

Okay, I feel like I won't be able to sleep without giving some attention to the game... Note that I am phone posting, so any weird misspellings are due to auto correct.

The post everyone seemed to fall over was Post 237. I completely understand why in hindsight. In hindsight I also acknowledge that I should have given some more thought to that post before hitting submit. It was bad play. Yes, I felt unsupported in my case on ewo, and yes, I didn't want to let post 69 slide, but I was out of angles to attack him on that post alone. Combined with Dog's unvote, it got into my head that ewo's wagon was losing momentum. However, and this is just a bad habit of mine, I think as I post. I didn't want to withhold my complete thoughts from the town, so I typed up the second part of the post. I admit I was wrong, however, I was lost, and maybe a little too stubborn in my previous defense of that post.

Also, on the ewo hasn't felt the pressure of l-1 enough, I didn't have that part of the game fresh enough in my mind when I made that statement. I was under the impression that ewo hadn't posted at all before Dog unvoted, which was clearly wrong. Like I already said, I should have checked that before posting, I apologise for it and I retract the statement.

Like I already said, I make it my policy to welcome replacements, so there was no ill intent in welcoming HerrRudi. I do acknowledge the fact that my question about deadlines was confusingly placed, but I already cleared that up twice. The question is by no means meant to coax Rudi into lynching ewo, as Rudi seems to be so convinced of.

I hope this cleared up all and any confusion about my actions. I apologise again for that terrible post. If there are any other questions you want answered, I'll get to them when I've got time and access to my laptop.

However, Rudi, all you've done so far in the game is accusing me. I feel like you might be falling into the mistake of tunnelling. What are, based on the whole game, your reads on everyone and why do you them that way? You seem to be convinced of two wrong statements, one that I am scum, the second one being that I am male. I can only hope to convince you of the wrongness of the former statement, but the latter statement is more easily fixed. My profile says I'm female, so could you please refer to me as such?

↑ Paschendale wrote:Since the initial case on Ewo started forming, he's actually been recovering pretty well. He's been more in defensive mode, but he hasn't made any bad arguments. His reasoning has become stronger. It's a town move to admit to a mistake and move on.

Is it just me or does the above post happen to shortly after this post for comfort?

JohnnyFarrar wrote:

↑ JasonWazza wrote:wait what, cause he calls you town it's ok that he gives jack shit?

I was actually happy about YOU calling me town in the post containing your vote. Sorry, didn't make that clear. (I've said that a lot this game, haven't I)

Oh you meant i have a town read on you, sorry about that i thought you meant wii.

↑ HerrRudi wrote:@Jason If I came in and just sheeped City like he soft sold it I would deserve a lynch D2. It would be a major distraction for the town too. Scum's best friend. That was more at what I was getting at. No attempt on my part to soil your name in that or call you out. Just stating a fact really.

Yeah just wondered why you mentioned my name, figured it might have been a soft way of asking how i feel about policy lynches or something like that

@Jason I usually don't try to soft coax answers, if I have questions for you you'll know haha.

@City I will tunnel players aggressively if I feel I have a strong case to see how they react/defend themselves, so I do not find it a mistake. I appreciate the general concern of that statement though, mostly that I haven't said much about the other players, which is true. (Also sorry for any gender mistakes on my part. I just use masculine nouns/pronouns in general for the internet but now that I know I'll make sure I'm right on you. My bad)

Anyways, I appreciate that you did welcome me, but I just feel overall the post was a soft sell for a sheep-lynch on ewo. It had all the ingredients. It's a null tell on it's own, but in context it meant something to me and still does. If that is your meta though (which I believe) then it carries a little less weight, but the theory is still there. But now that I know this is something you always do, it's less damning evidence. Still, the fact that your defense of your post is that it is bad posting and that you have to retract all of it is rather suspicious, along with what I consider insincere scumhunting and overly opportunistic behavior on your part, my vote will stay on you for now.

If I change my vote, it'll almost definitely be for wiibox. I need to ISO him more (likely to happen tomorrow when I have more time, it's a busy week), but he also has pretty unmotivated scumhunting trends and bad cases. But I don't know if its NH of Johnny but someone said it leans newb behavior so that's why I am hesitant there since I am inclined to agree with that.

Anyways on to some quick reads:
Ewo~~ I have a slight town lean here. He has shown good poise in L-1, but I have concerns with the nature that he hopped on my wagon with. Seems to be licking his chops a little bit if that makes sense. Most of my town read on him is contingent on City actually being scum. Without that assumption, he is a little more suspicious, but not enough in my book. My gut says don't lynch him today right now.
NHammen~~Null. Seems to be hunting, good activity, good questions, etc., but the way you post (which I'm sure is your meta) is offputtingly neutral. My gut read says to stay on my toes with you.
Pashendale~~prob town. Or gambitting super hard. I'm gonna believe that he townslipped for now, since that makes more sense given his tone in my book, as gambits are a little more manufactured and he seems to write what he thinks.
CheeryDog~~Hard Town read here. Keep doing what you do.
Johnny~~Lean town. I haven't really seen anything scummy from him to blip my scumdar. Replaced into a pretty strong town read in Nekeko so his slot is fine for now.
Jason~~Town lean. Pushing a lynch on my slot (MM) without ever gaining much traction (I think) seems townie to me. Seems to be saying what's on his mind, which has a good town feel for me so I lean town here.

Tell me if I missed anyone. Players of most concern today are City, Wii, and maybe ewo (I need to reassess my thoughts on him without assuming city scum).

↑ HerrRudi wrote:But I don't know if its NH of Johnny but someone said it leans newb behavior so that's why I am hesitant there since I am inclined to agree with that.

It was me. I tend to make the same mistake that I think I see him making all the time, post just enough to give everyone a solid read on you, but don't actually help at all. It's a byproduct of newbishness and/or disinterest.

Paschendale wrote:@Johnny: Ewo admitted to being mistaken on his case against Nhammen. Everyone makes mistakes, and I find that scum tend to try to play it off, rather than fess up. Scum are afraid of looking suspect for any reason. It's a risk to admit to a mistake, since some people will undoubtedly jump on it as a scumtell.

Are you talking about this?

↑ ewo2 wrote:That and the fact that I flubbed my case on nh badly enough that it's clear there's no pursuing it at this stage in the day. We have to settle on a lynch and I highly doubt I'm swaying enough votes to nh based on my case despite my lingering suspicion that nh is scum.

Because this doesn't sound like "I was wrong", but more like "No one's going to listen to me"

It's more of an admission than most people do in this game.

↑ CityElectric wrote:
However, my scum read isn't strong enough to put ewo at L-1... So, ewo, you're warned. Anything that even slightly indicates that you're not town, and you'll get my vote.

So what new stuff came that made you decide ewo was worth putting up to L-1 again after I placed him there and then unvoted?

You said you were out of attack angles, however going with why you didn't put ewo on L-1 in your replace in post, you must have found something slightly scummy to place your vote on him correct?

UNVOTE: Wii
VOTE: City

Your defence hasn't convinced me. Did you even read my reasoning for unvoting ewo? I fricken mentioned the latest posts by him were a reason for the unvote.

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:

↑ nhammen wrote:hmm... good catch. Can you show me those games?

I can't decide if this is incredibly townie or incredibly scummy, but I just felt I needed to say something about it. Normally, this would be a townread, but Joyous Pooch is so firmly planted in all of our townreads that it kind of looks like you're looking for reasons to suspect him. Meh, null.

I'm not sure if you are reading this wrong, or I am reading your statement wrong. The him you refer to at the end is Jason or Dog? Because Dog stated the reason to suspect Jason, and I was stating that Dog had made a good catch.

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:

↑ nhammen wrote:Not only that, but he is sheeping me, when I am the player that he claims to have found most scummy at the time. Players don't sheep someone they are suspicious of in general. That post seriously bothered me.

I arrived at the same conclusions you did and have acted on them accordingly. I know nothing for certain at this stage, so to assume that I should form reads that oppose my suspects' is just silly, especially D1 when I can so easily be wrong.

Its not that your reads are not opposite. Its that your reads are almost exactly the same, except for the vote on me. Now, I find this a bit odd, but overall, I'm not sure what to make of it. It could be scummy, but I really don't know. I keep going back and forth on it.

↑ Paschendale wrote:Since the initial case on Ewo started forming, he's actually been recovering pretty well. He's been more in defensive mode, but he hasn't made any bad arguments. His reasoning has become stronger. It's a town move to admit to a mistake and move on.

Unvote

On the flip side, a lot of what Wiibox has been saying has been weak as hell. He looks like he's trying to find reasons to sheep other people. His statements have been very passive, and he really is only popping up when called upon. And I don't like how he's been acting over the hammer on Ewo. He's trying to push the responsibility off on others. Well, don't worry, you don't have to make that choice anymore.

Vote: Wiibox

Although I can see this point of view regarding ewo, and have been thinking about moving my vote off of him, I'm not sure wii is the best alternative. Some of wii's actions seem to be coming from newbtown. Newbtown can always be faked, but I don't think that is what is happening. Whenever I have considered moving my vote off of ewo, I couldn't find someone else that I would prefer to have my vote on. Cheery's catch on Jason (and Jason's reaction to it) seems like a good starting point, but he's had some other behavior that I am seeing as a town-tell. And this case on City seems like a good place to look as well, but I'm just not as confident in it as I am with my vote on ewo. The good thing at this point of the game is that I have more than half of the playerlist as townreads.

↑ HerrRudi wrote:

City's vote on ewo came after he was called out on not voting the person he considered his biggest scumread. Sort of a "ok, I'll vote him just so my vote matches my words" kinda thing.

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:Ok, Wii's little catchup doesn't really contain anything incredibly helpful. He's got an anti-town townread from me. I'm asserting, right now, that Wii's play is more newbie than scummy.

I have been seeing this as well.

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:

↑ CityElectric wrote:Post 33 marks Wiibox3's (Wii) first post that is actually helpful. In a way...

How is it helpful?

By helpful, I meant it was the first post that wasn't fluff.

Johnny wrote:

↑ CityElectric wrote:Wii posts something, which assures Johnny of his townieness. And, acutally, he's right. Wii's post does score him nice townie points.

This says "No one disagreed with him, so I better just nod and go with it". Why did it make him townie?

It scores him townie points, it doesn't make him townie. I think I said that because it was one of the posts that marked, at least for me, the (temporary) end of his active lurker streak.

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:

↑ CityElectric wrote:
However, my scum read isn't strong enough to put ewo at L-1... So, ewo, you're warned. Anything that even slightly indicates that you're not town, and you'll get my vote.

So what new stuff came that made you decide ewo was worth putting up to L-1 again after I placed him there and then unvoted?

Read my defense. I thought as I typed, thought (for some weird reason) ewo was mainly awol during his L-1 phase, and I hoped I could get a better answer out of him at L-1.

Dog wrote:
You said you were out of attack angles, however going with why you didn't put ewo on L-1 in your replace in post, you must have found something slightly scummy to place your vote on him correct?

His answers to my questioning of his post 69 didn't convince me enough of him being scummy. That's the reason I put him at L-1 there.

Dog wrote:
UNVOTE: Wii
VOTE: City

Your defence hasn't convinced me. Did you even read my reasoning for unvoting ewo? I fricken mentioned the latest posts by him were a reason for the unvote.

Yes, I read that post. In fact, it was what got me lost. I was unsure how to proceed on my questioning of ewo and you hardly acknowledged my find/my questioning in your unvote post (in fact no one did until Johnny just now), making me feel like there was hardly any merit in doing that questioning. I didn't want to sound like a broken record, repeating the same question over and over again, which I was doing at that point.

Anyhow, guys, I feel so bad at this being around deadline and all, but RL is getting in the way of frequent posting. I'll try to post every day, but school's started and I'm rehearsing for a pretty big performance with the choir I sing in, so schedule is hectic. I'm really sorry about this.

That reminds me, Pasch, Did you ever address all the crap City said about you in his entry post? From what I've seen you haven't even acknowledged his presence.

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:That reminds me, Pasch, Did you ever address all the crap City said about you in

his

her

entry post? From what I've seen you haven't even acknowledged

his

her

presence.

There's an acronym for this which I can't come up with right now... FFYC? Please, everyone, it's underneath my name, next to every single one of my posts. I'm a girl and I prefer to be referred to as such.