Mafiascum.net

Sixty, I'll cut you some slack for the Sotty vote (because Empire had the same "OMIGOD SO SCUM" reaction to her big catch-up post), but since you're town unless you've dramatically changed your scum play overnight, you have no excuse for posting this:

Your reads in particular amount to "Town: people I agree with; scum: people I don't understand/don't agree with". That's not scumhunting,

that's going where the flow leads you.

↑ Sixty wrote:2) All reads on other players are based on whether he would think it himself (216). It's ineffective at best and lazy at worst.

That's...not at all "going where the flow leads you" or "lazy" (and "ineffective" isn't a scumtell). I'm not arguing with you about it being poor play (at least, if you accept the premise that FT is guilty of this), but I hate you going the extra step of suggesting bogus motivations for why that behaviour is scummy. If anything, thinking favourably of people who mirror your thought process is something town are MUCH more likely to do! Do you really think it's credible that FT went, "I'm lazy scum, so it's too much work to make up fake reasons to suspect people! I'll save time by...making up fake opinions, and then extrapolating my other fake reads based on how closely these players match my set of fake opinions"?

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but someone has to break the harsh truth to you: your case kind of sucks. FT is throwing out lots of newer player town tells (yeah, um, ignore what I said before; I'm back to thinking FT's obviously town again, because his more recent posts reinforce that impression). Most of your points against him really aren't alignment relevant. Why are you so stubborn about this read?

Bad dog! No walk for you today!

Update: our new suspect pool is {Nacho, Josh, jason, RachMarie}. (Like the old suspect pool, except minus Sotty and plus Rach.)

===============

What about my comment on CES suddenly doesn't seem genuine? And what do you mean you don't like that I insist the stuff I do isn't scummy? I haven't just gone around saying I'm not scummy just for the sake of saying it, it was directly in response to Sixty's attack.

I wasn't stating a scumread on you so much as waffling on a townread (I might have been jumping at shadows because of Sixty's case), and like I said above, I've since changed my mind. So these answers are kind of crappy, because I don't even agree with them anymore.

Anyway, I didn't change my mind on the "I really hope CES is town" part, but the "why is CES only attacking lurkers?" part (since I didn't think that was true--I missed that you'd explained the Nacho lurker thing). I also just got an oily/soft vibe on a reread of the second paragraph of this post--maybe it was all the question marks. Sorry I don't have anything better than "gut." My gut reads can be really fluid; sometimes jump back and forth on the same post depending on my mood.

I don't think anyone just randomly announces that they're not scummy at all when they're not under attack. But I find certain kinds of overdefensiveness suspicious, because scum tend to be more concerned with self-preservation. (Yes, I know this isn't always true, but that's a debate for MD, not here.)

Dazed & Confused 251 wrote:Do you really think it's credible that FT went, "I'm lazy scum, so it's too much work to make up fake reasons to suspect people! I'll save time by...making up fake opinions, and then extrapolating my other fake reads based on how closely these players match my set of fake opinions"?

"These people are thinking like I would as Town, so yeah, let's call them Town."

↑ Dazed and Confused wrote:Bad dog! No walk for you today!

How we look: "I'm just going to mope in the corner and hope that I don't die of neglect before someone comes by with a treat."
What we're thinking: "Whatever."

(L-2)

↑ Sixty wrote:"These people are thinking like I would as Town, so yeah, let's call them Town."

That's a fairly common townie line of thought, no?

↑ Dazed and Confused wrote:

↑ Sixty wrote:"These people are thinking like I would as Town, so yeah, let's call them Town."

That's a fairly common townie line of thought, no?

It's a fairly common crutch for scum who are trying to figure out who seems most organic to call Town or not.

(This puppyhalf also doubts it works as Town.)

Why are you voting for Nacho?

And seriously Rach, you are holding up the game, why is it taking you so long to post scum reads?

Nachomamma8 and Josh Lyman have been prodded.

Josh Lyman has requested replacement.

↑ Josh Lyman wrote:

↑ Dazed and Confused wrote:
2)

Josh Lyman

, it was implied that you like to quickhammer people at L-1. Is this true?

Nope. I'm a lurky-type of player who doesn't really meet anyone else's expectations.

unvote

Will re-read later today and place a vote.

despite this, he never did put down a vote, did he?

Urgh, until his replacement comes in.

You're activity is barely a shade above Josh's at this point. You should try and fix that.

I shall try... I am failing in all my games right now. :/ all my fuckin' pre-ins came up at once lately. I try catching up in one, I fall behind in another. URGH

Busy today. Content tomorrow.

I'm finding Sotty fairly town for her Tierce exchange.

↑ Dazed and Confused wrote:-Nacho, what was the point of your massive analysis of CES's meta? You didn't actually connect any of that to anything he's done this game. You're just telling him what kinds of behaviour you'll read as town from him in advance. And that still doesn't explain why you don't like CES in the first place.

My point of my massive analysis of CES's meta is to make myself a threat to him as scum. I want him to know that I'm not going to dismiss him because I can't read him, and that if he's not going to bus this game, he's going to need to fake that "moment" or I'm crushing him. I don't necessarily find him scummy yet; I was voting him to bring attention to him and see how he reacted before I went through the meta read.

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:He's the common link.

Between...?

↑ RachMarie wrote:Speaking of Nacho, one of the things that sticks out in my mind plus in research is he tends to hard bus his scum buddy One of the reasons I would like to wait til he can speak is to see if he does that. Would help us get both of the scum in one swoop.

The other reason is I do not feel comfortable with lynching someone who is V/LA

Rach is extremely town.

↑ Sixty wrote:By the way, Rach, that Nacho comment is STILL not content. Again. Whatever your alignment, I'll be quite disappointed if this game turns out to be a repeat of the newbie game I modded where you were an IC. Shape it up. You don't need to go on mega tours of meta research, but you have to provide content that is pertinent to this game instead of just coasting with promises of 'stuff' to come.

...and if you can't read her by now, you need to do some shaping up yourself.

↑ jasonT1981 wrote:I shall try... I am failing in all my games right now. :/ all my fuckin' pre-ins came up at once lately. I try catching up in one, I fall behind in another. URGH

it feels like my hands are tied with regards to you right now and I hate it.

↑ Nachomamma8 wrote:Between...?

{Nacho, Jason} and {Nacho, Josh}. Obviously?

P.S. I don't think you know my scum meta very well.

↑ Nachomamma8 wrote:I'm finding Sotty fairly town for her Tierce exchange.

pretty much agree with you on this, scum sotty would be all over me for lack of activity and pushing it to high hell, but town Sotty will go on actual cases against you etc.

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:

↑ Nachomamma8 wrote:Between...?

{Nacho, Jason} and {Nacho, Josh}. Obviously?

P.S. I don't think you know my scum meta very well.

and I don't think you hide yourself as well as you think you do
but we'll see about that soon enough, won't we?

D&C - Are you sure Nacho is scum?

Please welcome to the game Whiskers who replaces Josh Lyman.

Ayo. Pony here.
I'm reading the thread, but what do you want to highlight for me as important?

Whiskers, you can start by telling us if your scumbuddy is Nacho, or if it's someone boring like jason?

↑ Sixty wrote:D&C - Are you sure Nacho is scum?

No. We think he has a reasonable chance of being scum. (Come on, this hydra is 50% Mina.)

jason, are you saying that Sotty is town because she suspects you based on an actual case instead of your lack of activity?

CES, what makes you think the scumteam isn't Jason/Josh? Also, thoughts on Rach? On Nacho's most recent post?

(I was thinking of 262, but you can answer for 265, also. How do they affect your read on Nacho's alignment?)

↑ Dazed and Confused wrote:jason, are you saying that Sotty is town because she suspects you based on an actual case instead of your lack of activity?

Seems to be his line. He makes this assumption a lot, but I find Jason scummy for his lurking regardless of my alignment. Pretty sure I don't like him using it now as a way to keep my vote off him despite him doing jack and shit in this game.

My patience with both him and Rach is running super thin.

Speaking of Rach, am I barking up the wrong tree completely there? What's your opinion?

↑ Sotty7 wrote:Speaking of Rach, am I barking up the wrong tree completely there? What's your opinion?

I think you're being too hard on her. Yes, she's being a bit fluffy, but she's definitely busting her ass off to get some things done and this is such a far cry from the times I've seen her as scum that I sort of doubt that she could fake something like this. Especially as it pertains to dealing with me/CES; I find she gets scared of me as scum (and as of now, probably regardless of my alignment), and the whole "CES, please go after Josh" seems like something that she would not say in any scumiverse at all.

I guess I just don't see the point of ISOing everyone in the game before providing content when we are so early in. Just feels like hard stalling.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3943559
She has a tendency to immediately start on ISOs the second she's asked for content, and is normally pretty fluffy otherwise. See here her ISOs on Page 4 of a newbie game we played together.