292: Mythical Monster Mafia- Game over


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Post Post #250 (ISO) » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:45 am

Post by Alexander »

Ok, I thought about it again, reconsidered the whole situation, and I decided I better claim now. Claiming at 3 votes, in case a gullible townie decides to vote for me, will sound less sincere and will give a desperate scum a better position to counterclaim me. Besides, we only need 1 night of doc protection.

I am the doctor
, which explains my utter disdain toward Shiryu's claim.

My best bet is to assume Oslo is town, which I am nearly sure of on a re-read. Had he been the SK, he would not have come out so easily. If you are the SK, Oslo, mad props on this gambit, but I think you're not.

So, today, we lynch PJ, vig Speedy. I will protect Oslo or Pug, most likely. Since mafia and SK cannot coordinate their kills, we may get lucky and have only 1 townie killed tonight. Most likely, me...

The SK, if it's not Oslo, is between Maz and d_rouge. Whoever out of Oslo/Pug survives tomorrow, will have to get their act together and lynch the true SK. If Oslo is the SK, we likely lose, but he deserves it. If Pug is mafia, we lose to bastard modding, nothing can be done about that. A mafia with a roleblocker AND a lynch/kill resistant member is way too strong. And I don't believe in d_rouge, Oslo, or Maz being mafia. The end.
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Post Post #251 (ISO) » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:37 pm

Post by petroleumjelly »

Wa-hey, hold it right there!

Alexander is lying – I am the Doctor.

If you notice, Alexander has given neither his role name nor the flavor to show how “he is the Doctor”.

I am the Unicorn, and each night I can offer one of you a drink from my horn, which of course cures people from sicknesses, and offers somebody a protection from one night-kill per night.

Phoebus’ choices were:
Night One: Protect d_rouge
Night Two: Protect pug89
Night Three: Protect pug89

What is more, Alexander claims:
Alexander wrote:I am the doctor, which explains my utter disdain toward Shiryu's claim.
Well that’s funny, you didn’t seem too “disdainful” after Shiryu claimed (which was in post 190), until
after
you had determined he must be a Mafia Role-Blocker. Which makes sense since you are the Serial Killer. What you said was:
Alexander in Post 193 wrote:Well, can you at least share some thoughts with us before that? Some independant thoughts?
You start without mentioning your position on Shiryu’s claim whatsoever.
Alexander in Post 195 wrote:Bolded for emphasis. He's the mafia roleblocker, guys. Go get 'im.
And then you decide he must a role-blocker, for whatever reason.
Alexander in Post 199 wrote: Well,
if indeed Shiryu ends up mafia
, as I wholeheartedly suspect, we can note his relations to other players:
Alexander in Post 201 wrote:I'd like to hear what d_rouge, Pug and SpeedyKQ have to say, but overall I do not object to a Shiryu lynch. I think the claim is BS,
I do not believe he's the doc with this flavor.
You claimed that you are objecting to the flavor, from which you determined he was the role-blocker. Hence, you are not objecting to his claim of “Doctor”, but the fact that his mythical beast does not seem like something that would offer protection.

The fact that Alexander failed to say what his actual mythical creature is, as well as the fact that he did not even tell us who he protected Nights 1-3 should be enough to tell you that he is completely pulling this claim from his behind.

Clearly, I will emphasize and
Confirm Vote: Alexander
. He is desperate scum looking for a way out -- don't give it to him.
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Post Post #252 (ISO) » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:08 pm

Post by Alexander »

Confirm suggestion to lynch PJ, vig Speedy.
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Post Post #253 (ISO) » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:12 pm

Post by Alexander »

All the points you made are just plain silly. You are essentially accusing me of NOT REVEALING THE FACT I AM THE DOC.

And exactly how does the fact the I CLAIMED A STANDARD AND EASILY COUNTERCLAIMABLE ROLE sit with the fact I am the SK?

If I am truly the SK, there is no way I can win by claiming a standard role such as doc. If people don't believe me, I'm lynched, if they believe me I am nightkilled. The SK cannot win with a doc claim. Mafia, however, can take a fall while counterclaiming the real doc. PJ is making a last ditch effort.
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Post Post #254 (ISO) » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:15 pm

Post by Alexander »

I have no need to argue with PJ anymore. So this is for the rest of the town:

I hope I have convinced you I am not mafia with the way I helped lynch Shiryu.
I hope you all understand that if indeed I am the SK, I have doomed myself to lose the game with my doc claim.
I hope you understand I am smarter than that. I hope you understand the Serial Killer will not commit suicide by claiming doc. I will, of course, be vigged if PJ comes up the true doc. Which he will not. Thank you for your cooperation.
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Post Post #255 (ISO) » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:32 pm

Post by petroleumjelly »

All that and you still don't claim what your actual role-name is nor why you protected each night?

And it really doesn't matter what you claimed: I have you pegged as the SK, so you could claim anything you wanted. You couldnt' fake a tracker claim at this point, or a second Cop, or a Mason, and certainly not a back-up
anything
, and I seriously doubt you would be able to get away with a role-blocker claim (or else you would not have thought Shiryu was a role-blocker), nor would you be able to muddle your way through a Vote Switcher, Redirector, Resurrector, or anything of that sort. You may have taken the Doctor down with you, but the decision here ought to be fairly clear to the town. Practically the only other thing you could have claimed was a townie, and since you knew that would not be helping your situation, you were quite forced into taking a stab at a Doctor claim.
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Post Post #256 (ISO) » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:33 pm

Post by Alexander »

petroleumjelly wrote:Phoebus’ choices were:
Night One: Protect d_rouge
Night Two: Protect pug89
Night Three: Protect pug89
This is the oldest scum trick in the book: he is claiming protection on
the very people whose votes he needs
. A form of emotional manipulation, if you will.

However, flavor shmavor, I am The Golem, a creature created by a Jewish wizard to protect the Jews against antisemitic attacks. My protection flavor is one of a bodyguard rather than a healer. I must say I like Unicorn better, it's a nice false claim.
I protected Phoebus N1, mostly at random, FD on N2 because I thought he was playing agressively like a cop (which turned out right), and SpeedyKQ on N3 because he proactively defended FD, which made me think he was a cop with an innocent on FD (which turned out wrong). However, since my PM states I can only prevent 1 kill per night, I would not be able to save FD anyway. Too bad.

Anyway, flavor details and protection history are meaningless. Serial Killers do not claim doc ever. Claiming a basic power role as a Serial Killer is suicide
whether the claim is believed or not
.

If you belive PJ's claim that I am the SK, you must also believe that I played a gambit that will lead to my demise
even if it's successful
. Am I really that dumb?

Just lynch PJ and get it over with. Vig me if he's a good guy. Which he is not.
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Post Post #257 (ISO) » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:47 pm

Post by petroleumjelly »

Alexander wrote:This is the oldest scum trick in the book: he is claiming protection on the very people whose votes he needs. A form of emotional manipulation, if you will.
Scum trick?! I wasn't the person choosing the protections, Alexander. I don't know why Phoebus chose the people he did (because I seriously doubt I would protected Pug89, at least on Night 3 had I been playing). I suspect Phoebus thought he was quite cleared, and would rather not risk a NK on him.

The fact is Alexander, you were afraid you were going to be lynched, so you claimed: I don't care if "Serial Killers never claim Doctors".

In fact, why don't you read the ONE GAME where I was a Serial Killer, Alexander. I claimed Doctor. For reference, that game was ScumChat, #276. Fancy that.

Since you were effectively already doomed in this game, it doesn't matter that you claimed an "easily counterclaimable role", because that is WIFOM: "a Serial Killer would never claim Doctor because it is too easily counterclaimed" does not discount the fact that I have already done it another game, and that you have done it in this game.
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Post Post #258 (ISO) » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:50 pm

Post by d_rouge »

Sorry guys, I have been a bit busy these last few days, but I should be able to read more in detail what happened in these last pages and I'll post tomorrow morning.

As i skimmed through, I see that there's an argument between PJ and Alexander, I would tend to support Alexander's side from what I've seen in this game, but I have not read these last pages.
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Post Post #259 (ISO) » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:02 pm

Post by Alexander »

Since you were effectively already doomed in this game
This is ludicrous. "I was effectively doomed" ??

PJ, the only other guy voting for me is your scumbudy!! When I claimed doc, there were 2 votes on me (none from innocents), and 2.5 votes on you (me, Maz, half-vote from Oslo). To say that at the time I claimed "I was effectively doomed" is nonsense.
I have you pegged as the SK
This is even more ludicrous. "You had me pegged as the SK" ??

Again, only you and your scumbuddy are voting for me. You do not by any means 'have me pegged'....

Again, this is for all other town players - do you honestly believe that the Serial Killer would make a claim that is sure to lose him the game even if the claim is believed? Such a claim could come with 3 or 4 alive, when the SK only needs to skip one last lynch, but not with SEVEN alive (when he needs to skip 2-3 lynches)... and one of the 7 is a vig. Come on.

This is not a matter of WIFOM, as PJ tries to present it. He says "you want to make people believe you because Doc is such a bad claim to make for an SK".
I say, Doc is such a bad claim for SK to make because it fails
even when people believe it
. This is not a question of WIFOM.
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Post Post #260 (ISO) » Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:02 pm

Post by Pug89 »

Sorry I haven't posted recently; I've been busy. I am very suspicious of PJ's claim. It doesn't make sense to me that Phoebus would protect me after the events of day one. I don't have much time right now, but I will post more tommorow.
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Post Post #261 (ISO) » Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:31 pm

Post by Alexander »

petroleumjelly wrote:
Alexander in Post 193 wrote:Well, can you at least share some thoughts with us before that? Some independant thoughts?
You start without mentioning your position on Shiryu’s claim whatsoever.
Of course. This was done with the following goals:
a. See if I can lynch him without revealing my role (which worked like charm)
b. Lure him into a false sense of security so he can blurt something about his scumbuddies (which failed)
What, did you expect me to wave my hands and screech "I am the doc"?
Alexander in Post 195 wrote:Bolded for emphasis. He's the mafia roleblocker, guys. Go get 'im.
And then you decide he must a role-blocker, for whatever reason.
Yes, the reason is called "reading comprehension". I read his flavor, I comprehended it, and I decided he must be the roleblocker.
Alexander in Post 199 wrote: Well,
if indeed Shiryu ends up mafia
, as I wholeheartedly suspect, we can note his relations to other players:
Alexander in Post 201 wrote:I'd like to hear what d_rouge, Pug and SpeedyKQ have to say, but overall I do not object to a Shiryu lynch. I think the claim is BS,
I do not believe he's the doc with this flavor.
You claimed that you are objecting to the flavor, from which you determined he was the role-blocker. Hence, you are not objecting to his claim of “Doctor”, but the fact that his mythical beast does not seem like something that would offer protection.
Again, I am at this point doing my best to get Shiryu lynched without revealing the fact I am the doc. Of course I am completely distrustful to his claim, but I cannot really say that it's because I am the doc, can I not? I kept pushing for his lynch because I knew for a fact he's lying, but I couldn't say it outright, could I not?

Basically, the entirety of the above post accuses me of doing my job properly and successfully lynching a scum who claimed my role without revealing that I am that role. If this is the accusation, I proudly accept.
The fact that Alexander failed to say what his actual mythical creature is, as well as the fact that he did not even tell us who he protected Nights 1-3 should be enough to tell you that he is completely pulling this claim from his behind.
Why do I even need to supply those details? Let's see, there are 5 people here who are clearly NON-MAFIA (me, Pug, Maz Medias, d_rouge, Osloboditelj), and I was counterclaimed by one of the 2 who ARE MAFIA. And the other mafia is voting for me too, what a surprise. Do I have to be worried?
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Post Post #262 (ISO) » Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:51 pm

Post by petroleumjelly »

Alexander wrote:Why do I even need to supply those details? Let's see, there are 5 people here who are clearly NON-MAFIA (me, Pug, Maz Medias, d_rouge, Osloboditelj), and I was counterclaimed by one of the 2 who ARE MAFIA. And the other mafia is voting for me too, what a surprise. Do I have to be worried?
Well if you "weren't worried" I don't see why you would take a stab role-claiming if you were already so sure you had the Mafia under your finger. And by the way: you are supposed to supply those details so that the town can judge how truthful you are. Note how much more difficult it would have been to lynch Shiyru if he had not claimed his mythical beast or posted his flavor: you would have had to argue against a sole Doc claim, which is what you were originally trying to skate by with.
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Post Post #263 (ISO) » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:19 pm

Post by d_rouge »

vote: PJ

I have read through his and Alex arguments and I'm fairly sure that he is scum with Speedy at this point. A part from Alex's points, most of which I happen to agree with, especially the attitude Speedy has been having in regards to Pj accuse on him, there's also a flavor reason that makes me disbelieve PJ's claim. I won't go into details right now, but I could elaborate further if it will be deemed necessary.

Also, I don't think that Alex would have claimed doc had he been the SK, and I don't think he's mafia from the way he attacked and got Shyriu lynched.
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Post Post #264 (ISO) » Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:01 am

Post by Osloboditelj »

Ugh, three doc claims in one game... thankfully, after that slapfight I'm fairly certain of which one is our actual doc, and that's Alex. He clearly isn't mafia, and his recent actions including claim don't really make any sense for a SK. Being the first to claim in this situation helps his cause quite a lot as well. His not counterclaiming Shiryu when Shiryu was almost certainly doomed makes a lot of sense too, and I actually did pick up some doc tells there (which, along with the general integrity and logic of his posts, are why I've maintained he's town for quite some time now). PJ, on the other hand, replaced a plaer with a spotty track record, made some serious WIFOM plays, misrepresented Alex enormously several times, and generally looks like a major scumbag.

The play is clear - we lynch whichever of the claimed docs seems scummier. That's PJ. There are two possible outcomes here:
A) PJ shows as scum. This means that Alex is very likely our real doc, and Speedy scum. I vig Speedy, who should be scum. Then we only really have two SK candidates: Alex and d_rouge (Maz and Pug are 99% clear to my mind). Of the two, d_rouge seems much more likely to be the SK. Lynch d-rouge tomorrow. Town wins.
B) PJ is our doc. That means Alex was lying, and I should vig him. He'd be the SK in this case. This leaves Speedy as the most likely scum again, and d_rouge remains the most likely other anti-town player. In this case, we lynch Speedy, I think. Then, assuming we get another day or I'm alive (not sure on the numbers) we kill d_rouge and win.
Either way, the people who probably need to die are PJ, Speedy and d_rouge. In this light,
Vote: Petroleumjelly.
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Post Post #265 (ISO) » Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:36 am

Post by EnderX »

Day three final votecount:

PJ: 4 (Alexander, d_rouge, Maz Medias, Osloboditelj)
Alexander: 1 (PetroleumJelly)

Not voting: Pug89, speedyKQ


Again the day wore on, as the mythical creatures began to argue once more, vehemently throwing around accusations and sliding logic in circles. By the end of the day, though, the group had settled on one their chosen target, PetroleumJelly.

Despite rather incoherent protestations of innocence, the town quickly started to pummel, trample, etc. the poor PetroleumJelly, until all that was left was a silent, unmoving mass. Once they were done, EnderX crept in and took a look. From out of the pocket was drawn the now-traditional letter.


I would like to thank you for your participation in our Census, sir. I regret the various embellishments that have been built up around your legend, and wish you the best in eliminating these during the census.
MythCensus
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EnderX turned off the disguise unit on PetroleumJelly, revealing a longish snake, bearing a golden crown atop its head. Traces of the creature's venom dripped to the ground, where the grass below began to shrivel.


PetroleumJelly[Phoebus], Basilisk, mafia goon-Lynched Day three.


It is now night. Dawn is in 96 hours. Get your choices in.
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Post Post #266 (ISO) » Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:23 pm

Post by EnderX »

Day dawned once more, as the few remaining census members hurried to the shoreline to see who among them was left. When they arrived, they found a single body lying upon the ground. As usual, EnderX went over and drew a letter from the victim.


Sir, I would like to thank you for your participation in this round of the MythCensus project...both your participation as one of the census members, and your willingness to serve on the census team by volunteering yourself to serve as the location for the census. I wish you the very best in the census.
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EnderX turned off the disguise unit, revealing what appeared to be a single, long tentacle, such as an octopus might bear...a tentacle now made of stone. Suddenly, the ground began to shake, and everyone turned toward the sea as a loud sound, half roar and half sigh, came forth. At the edge of the supposed island, a long neck was now rising from the waters, with a vast head on top. The thing turned to look at the remaining census members, shook its head sadly, and then allowed itself to sink back into the depths.


SpeedyKQ, Kraken, night watcher-Petrified Night four.


With five alive, it's three to lynch.
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Post Post #267 (ISO) » Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:28 pm

Post by Maz Medias »

Well, shit.
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Post Post #268 (ISO) » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:03 pm

Post by Osloboditelj »

Well, that sure throws things for a loop...

I'm not quite sure why no kills but mine went through (correct doc protection should only account for one), but if we really have one scum and a SK left, I'm fairly sure they have to be Alexander and d_rouge. This is because I'm just about absolutely certain that Maz and Pug are town. Seeing as the events of last night inidicate we probably have a doc after all, the chances of Alex being SK seem diminished, leaving d_rouge as the logical conclusion for the lynch today. However, it's worth noting that PJ, being scum, knew Shiryu's roleblock targets, and painted Alex as the SK. That
might
mean that Alex was blocked the first two nights, leading to our lack of stabbing deaths... but tonight was so inconclusive that we're still not completely sure we even have a SK (though it seems likely). Thus, Alex seems like a worse lynch than d_rouge today. It is possible that Alex, being SK, chose not to kill tonight as a gambit, though.

Luckily, the fact that I'm still alive makes this a whole lot simpler. If, after lynching d_rouge, the town doesn't immediately win, I can vig Alex and that should do the trick. Granted, that would mean that if Pug or Maz was scum, we'd lose, but I'mas close as it gets to sure that's not the case. Note that if I were scum (which I'm not), the town should still win in this scenario: we'd have three alive tommorow including two almost confirmed players; I'd be lynched and the town would win. Thus, it looks like the town has this wrapped up, and d_rouge is the rational play today.

Vote:d_rouge
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Post Post #269 (ISO) » Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:35 am

Post by Alexander »

I am not the SK. I am a doctor, godddamn it. I don't know why I am still alive, could be a scum gambit. BTW, I protected Oslo, so that accounts for 1 kill. I have no idea where the other kill went.

Both SK and mafia could not have targeted Oslo, since I can only stop 1 kill.
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Post Post #270 (ISO) » Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:44 am

Post by Alexander »

Questions:

Pug89, are you immune to the first lynch OR nightkill, or to the first lynch AND nightkill? In other words, is it possible that the Phoenix resurrection accounts for the missing kill?

d_rouge, what exactly in PJ's claimed flavor made you doubt him?

Everyone, what do you think about getting full claims from everyone?
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Post Post #271 (ISO) » Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:26 am

Post by Maz Medias »

Claims sound good to me. We've caught two scum today on bad claims, sooo...
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Post Post #272 (ISO) » Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:27 am

Post by Alexander »

Well, just go ahead and claim then....

Alexander = Golem = Doc
Oslo = Petrifying Vig
Pug = Phoenix = lynch resistance
Maz = ???
d_rouge = ???
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Post Post #273 (ISO) » Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:28 am

Post by Maz Medias »

Actually, Oslo, we don't automatically lose if we lynch d_rouge and vig Alexander, because if Alexander targetted correctly with doc protection, it'd be you, me, and Pug.
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Post Post #274 (ISO) » Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:29 am

Post by Maz Medias »

I'm the third Hydra head. The "I'm very close to Der Hammer" exchange was the biggest breadcrumb of this, although we had agreed not to get too obvious with it (hiss hiss) beforehand. I think I left a few other ones, too.
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