In post 235, AbboTT wrote:Is the idea that he was trying to pretend like he was a PR?
Why would a PR use "JK" as a breadcrumb?
seek reactions? see if anyone reads inbeween the lines. really you have to ask the person themself.
well after all that i feel like nacho will give us the most information.
VOTE: nacho
his slotting most ppl as town for his reasoning are plausable but some of his post are just out there and seem off. His reads give indication that he knows that they are town and he is doing it to try to keep distance. He also has not given us anything on timeshift as if hes tring to distance himself from him while giveing reads about everyone else atm. my decision is 99.9% final on nacho/timshift.
timesift also seems to have the same type of posting where he says ray is "misguided town" and tbh i belive it, but if thats the case, how would he exactly know or be so accraute about something like that? im willing to go at these 2 atm.
I forgot about tier shift.
Calling us confirmed scum together because I forgot a buddy is stupid; I don't think I've ever "forgotten" a buddy in my life, and I've always been happy enough to talk and interact with them. Why do you think I would forget to name my scum partner in my reads list? Do you really think I can't buddy/distance with a partner after all these years of playing?
In post 242, Nachomamma8 wrote:I have a meta read on you based on the site you play at with Titus and my own personal experiences with you. I've found the difference between both games pretty easy to distinguish between and don't think the call is particularly difficult to make (active vs not active). When you play with a player for a while and have a more intimate read of their meta, generally more information tends to obfuscate the read as you're known for reading that player, as you're pressured to read that player. I don't have that player and I don't have an excess of information, hence that read being a fairly easy one for me to make.
I'm saying that my inactivity, when it comes, is because I'm busy. If you have evidence to the contrary, call me out for it. Otherwise, you're just going to have to take me at my word when I say that I'm busy.
Well what you have been doing is somewhat of a mirror of what titus did when she quickly slotted me town, however we have more games played so i have a better handle on her. Here you have only seen very little of me but seem VERY confident in it. Your confidence in it seems too strong to be town and is more scum.
In post 244, RayFrost wrote:Ika, I've had games where I ignore my scum buddies, bus them, distance from them, buddy up to them, and done a mix of these for different people. I even had a game where I essentially let myself die in order for a buddy to be a completely solid and beautiful town read.
I don't consistently play well as scum, so naturally that must mean that my playstyle is inconsistent as well.
Fair enough, i would like to hear how others play as scum. I have seen some players have a consitency when playing scum.
I am a confident player. I have been a confident player for a while now. This means, that I am confident regardless of alignment. I do not need more experience than the experience I have in order to be fairly confident of your alignment. Why do you think I need to see more?
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:21 pm
by Nachomamma8
Finally, why LMB's breadcrumb is town:
As scum, this whole scenario is dropping a fake crumb and then creating a fake reaction test off this fake crumb and then attacking a fake experienced off this fake crumb and off this fake reaction test is all for towncred. There's no way he could expect the lynch to go through on RayFrost considering having no real reason to call him scum over others, and I doubt he took the time to plan this out as scum considering its a lot of effort for not a lot of gain and a fucking crazy thing to think of. I think as scum he may have crumbed, and held onto it for later so that he could bolster a JK claim later; I don't think that new scum would plan out a gambit this elaborate for towncred and nothing but towncred right out of the gate.
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:33 pm
by bjc
I don't know, I can't really get behind a Rob vote right now because he's posted twice I think, or maybe three times.
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:42 pm
by Nachomamma8
In post 253, bjc wrote:I don't know, I can't really get behind a Rob vote right now because he's posted twice I think, or maybe three times.
Why does this translate into you not being willing to vote him? I thought you were happy with most votes unless you had a townread on the player, and you obviously can't have a townread on Rob based on three or so posts.
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:48 pm
by RayFrost
Unvote, Vote: RobinWilliams
I am clearly never going to get support for the ika lynch because everyone just sees it as his ~playstyle~ (I really really
really
hate how much my games have been "rayfrost made a good case but it's untrue because it's ~playstyle~" lately).
In post 253, bjc wrote:I don't know, I can't really get behind a Rob vote right now because he's posted twice I think, or maybe three times.
Why does this translate into you not being willing to vote him? I thought you were happy with most votes unless you had a townread on the player, and you obviously can't have a townread on Rob based on three or so posts.
I knew this was coming.
A few reasons why I will hold off until people decide we're going to lynch him (at which point I'll probably be okay with voting him):
-First off, I'm generally very willing to follow votes and keep wagons going. You've all seen it in this game. However, I'm not really sure what to think of your play in this game up to this point, so I'm a little hesitant.
-I'd still rather focus on others like ED, AboTT, and LMB
-I'd like to see more posts from everyone, including Robw.
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:26 pm
by ika
im tired but im gonna post this, if i die due to nk. Plz look into nacho/teirshift as scums
i feel like nachos reasoning for the vote on rob is highly unjustified and is looking at easly lynch pray right now. I will respond to all of your posts later. These are my 2 top scum suspects and i am not going to budge on these unless if someone gives me some damming evidence on someone.
I feel good about ika town and RayFrost town. I feel decently about Abbott town, and LMB town.
I kind of like emerald but nothing too definitive, and bjc is starting to lean scum.
note how there is zero, i mean ZERO mention of terishift right now. everyone else is mentioned in his reads
As scum, this whole scenario is dropping a fake crumb and then creating a fake reaction test off this fake crumb and then attacking a fake experienced off this fake crumb and off this fake reaction test is all for towncred. There's no way he could expect the lynch to go through on RayFrost considering having no real reason to call him scum over others, and I doubt he took the time to plan this out as scum considering its a lot of effort for not a lot of gain and a fucking crazy thing to think of. I think as scum he may have crumbed, and held onto it for later so that he could bolster a JK claim later; I don't think that new scum would plan out a gambit this elaborate for towncred and nothing but towncred right out of the gate.
I agree with this.
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:33 pm
by AbboTT
In post 257, ika wrote:im tired but im gonna post this, if i die due to nk. Plz look into nacho/teirshift as scums
i feel like nachos reasoning for the vote on rob is highly unjustified and is looking at easly lynch pray right now. I will respond to all of your posts later. These are my 2 top scum suspects and i am not going to budge on these unless if someone gives me some damming evidence on someone.
I feel good about ika town and RayFrost town. I feel decently about Abbott town, and LMB town.
I kind of like emerald but nothing too definitive, and bjc is starting to lean scum.
note how there is zero, i mean ZERO mention of terishift right now. everyone else is mentioned in his reads
Why would scum target you? You've been under the spotlight all day. Scum kills off the squeaky clean, not other suspects.
I am clearly never going to get support for the ika lynch because everyone just sees it as his ~playstyle~ (I really really
really
hate how much my games have been "rayfrost made a good case but it's untrue because it's ~playstyle~" lately).
And I am willing to vote here for [Reasons].
You aren't getting any support because you aren't making a good case.
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:48 pm
by RayFrost
Obviously I'm going to disagree with that.
"Your case is valid" has been said to me by ika himself. Meaning the case is good. The issue making it not a "good" case is the playstyle excuse. Meta hamstrings validity. Which is part of why I'm thinking of playing fewer games on MS. Too much meta being used for my tastes.
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:59 pm
by AbboTT
"Your case is valid" has been said to me by ika himself. [1]
Meaning the case is good.
[2]
The issue making it not a "good" case is the playstyle excuse.
[1] No. Ika is not the sole arbiter of whether or not your case is good. In fact, his opinion matters the least out of everybody else in this game.
[2] No it's not. That's what I'm trying to tell you. I'm not saying your case is not logically sound. I'm saying that you aren't presenting it in a convincing or (in my case) understandable way. If you could turn off the sass and make a succinct case, I would gladly give it some additional thought.
Meta hamstrings validity. Which is part of why I'm thinking of playing fewer games on MS. Too much meta being used for my tastes.
I mostly agree. Meta is boring to verify and therefore not very interesting to me. You aren't getting anywhere by appealing to our emotions, though. Go take your Legos and go home if you don't want to play with us.
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:42 am
by GuyInFreezer
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:41 am
by TierShift
I'm a little bit behind. I read through quickly and this is where I stand:
Ika/ed town
Abbott null/town- the fight with nacho sounded genuine+trying to scumhunt. Him fencesitting early on still slightly bugs me.
Nacho null/town- I'm having a hard time reading and I don't think that will change soon, props at least for the effort
LmB not sure on yet
Robw zero content
Bjc null- this guy was leaning town for me until 253, the unwillingness to vote rob, which contradicts completely with what he has done so far
Rayfrost scum-I'm terribly unconvinced by the ika case which is mostly based off of incertainty in reads and I feel it might be done just for towncred. Now the vote on robw which is meh.
Having said that I feel that robw is an easy wagon where scum might be parking their vote.
In post 201, TierShift wrote:Something I need to point out to the new players: people defending other people does
not
mean they are scumbuddies. Scumbuddies mostly avoid each other as to not draw attention to them.
I don't really understand all the scumreads ika has been getting. I might say I'm annoyed by his posting but it does feel genuine.
I don't particularly like LMB's entrance, just restating the case that emerald did before. Do give that buttload of evidence, though.
Im reading this post and this is one of those post that rubs me wrong after reading others and responses, Especialy the sencond part about me. It almost feels like you are trying to fencesit here. The last sentance really rubs me wrong if he is jk or think that his breadcumb for fk is not good. I personally disliked it as well due tot he fact on how stuble it was and how he expected everyone to see it. But i see where hes was coming from now.
I didn't think his entrance, the JK crumb, was particularly alignment indicative and I don't understand why nacho and abbott do. I was talking about his 193, which was uninspired and echoing what emerald said before.
And I don't believe I'm fencesitting about you, I have said that I think you are town and that I don't understand the scumreads. Is that fencesitting to you?
In post 203, TierShift wrote:Hardcore defending at the start of day 1 usually means they are not scumbuddies, though.
Really? how so? can you elaborate on that?
Scumbuddies want to avoid attracting attention to them being a scumteam. Plus, if it is obvious that the defending is not genuine, then upon a flip of one player, the other one will be heavily suspected as scum.
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:08 am
by TierShift
More on why Rayfrost is scum:
First he attacks ika, tunneling in but also continuously calling out others for lurking/not posting content. (Which IS a scumtell) What he doesn't do, however, is trying to scumhunt outside of ika. (Nother one) I see a few questions, but they are mostly about his own case and trying to recruit for his case. Now, after he let ika off the hook (because no one had been convinced) but still thinking he is scum (?), he goes onto a lurker, so from someone he is convinced he is scum, onto a nullread lurker? Doesn't make any town sense to me.
In post 235, AbboTT wrote:Is the idea that he was trying to pretend like he was a PR?
Why would a PR use "JK" as a breadcrumb?
seek reactions? see if anyone reads inbeween the lines. really you have to ask the person themself.
well after all that i feel like nacho will give us the most information.
VOTE: nacho
his slotting most ppl as town for his reasoning are plausable but some of his post are just out there and seem off. His reads give indication that he knows that they are town and he is doing it to try to keep distance. He also has not given us anything on timeshift as if hes tring to distance himself from him while giveing reads about everyone else atm.
my decision is 99.9% final on nacho/timshift.
timesift also seems to have the same type of posting where he says ray is "misguided town" and tbh i belive it, but if thats the case, how would he exactly know or be so accraute about something like that?
im willing to go at these 2 atm.
Very big lol at the bolded
I never said ray is misguided town?
Your case on both me and nacho makes no sense. Explain further please.
I am clearly never going to get support for the ika lynch because everyone just sees it as his ~playstyle~ (I really really
really
hate how much my games have been "rayfrost made a good case but it's untrue because it's ~playstyle~" lately).
And I am willing to vote here for [Reasons].
I very rarely use meta and meta alone to shut a read down completely, but when meta is extremely definitive, I go with it. I also find that his latest posts sound extremely genuine and don't really care how much he's contradicting himself as a result.
In post 201, TierShift wrote:Something I need to point out to the new players: people defending other people does
not
mean they are scumbuddies. Scumbuddies mostly avoid each other as to not draw attention to them.
I don't really understand all the scumreads ika has been getting. I might say I'm annoyed by his posting but it does feel genuine.
I don't particularly like LMB's entrance, just restating the case that emerald did before. Do give that buttload of evidence, though.
Im reading this post and this is one of those post that rubs me wrong after reading others and responses, Especialy the sencond part about me. It almost feels like you are trying to fencesit here. The last sentance really rubs me wrong if he is jk or think that his breadcumb for fk is not good. I personally disliked it as well due tot he fact on how stuble it was and how he expected everyone to see it. But i see where hes was coming from now.
I didn't think his entrance, the JK crumb, was particularly alignment indicative and I don't understand why nacho and abbott do. I was talking about his 193, which was uninspired and echoing what emerald said before.
And I don't believe I'm fencesitting about you, I have said that I think you are town and that I don't understand the scumreads. Is that fencesitting to you?
In post 203, TierShift wrote:Hardcore defending at the start of day 1 usually means they are not scumbuddies, though.
Really? how so? can you elaborate on that?
Scumbuddies want to avoid attracting attention to them being a scumteam. Plus, if it is obvious that the defending is not genuine, then upon a flip of one player, the other one will be heavily suspected as scum.
I pretty thoroughly explained the JK point. Why do you disagree?
As town, this whole scenario is dropping a fake crumb and then creating a fake reaction test off this fake crumb and then attacking a fake experienced off this fake crumb and off this fake reaction test is all for towncred. There's no way he could expect the lynch to go through on RayFrost considering having no real reason to call him scum over others, and I doubt he took the time to plan this out as town considering its a lot of effort for not a lot of gain and a fucking crazy thing to think of. I think as town he may have crumbed, and held onto it for later so that he could bolster a JK claim later; I don't think that new town would plan out a gambit this elaborate for towncred and nothing but towncred right out of the gate.
Hey, look, I replaces every scum with town and it still works (except for the scum crumb part, but hey, that part is just hypothetical)! I don't get the rayfrost part rhat is in there, though. What I want to say, I don't really get the argument as to why it is necessarily from town.
I am clearly never going to get support for the ika lynch because everyone just sees it as his ~playstyle~ (I really really
really
hate how much my games have been "rayfrost made a good case but it's untrue because it's ~playstyle~" lately).
And I am willing to vote here for [Reasons].
I very rarely use meta and meta alone to shut a read down completely, but when meta is extremely definitive, I go with it. I also find that his latest posts sound extremely genuine and don't really care how much he's contradicting himself as a result.
'Meta' just like that isn't an argument. You can't just say 'I disagree because meta'. Explain it and give examples and tell me what's different between ray's town and scum game and gimme links and shit.
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:35 am
by Nachomamma8
I'm not using meta for my read on Ray; I have no understanding of your case at all.
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:42 am
by Nachomamma8
Your switch doesn't work at all, either, and I'm not sure I understand your point in switching them around, either. Creating fake gambits as scum is more difficult than faking gambits as town similar to how scumhunting as scum is more difficult than scumhunting as town; it requires a more complex thought process to go "okay this is what I would do as town so this is what I will do here".
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:37 am
by ika
In post 268, TierShift wrote:
Very big lol at the bolded
I never said ray is misguided town?
Your case on both me and nacho makes no sense. Explain further please.
i may have ment someone elseon misguided town, but if you like i will do post by post on you and why i think you are scum for it. as well as nacho. you will need to give me about a good hr or 2 to do it, and by the end, my brain will be shot and will not be posting for a while.
but a short variation is based off your interactions.
