Mafiascum.net

In post 245, innocentvillager wrote: So my question here is, why does ironstove look like you in your first newbie game (I'm assuming you were town in that game)? I'm assuming you're referring to his later D1 play since you said it recently, which I can reconcile with newbscum play. I'm trying to figure out if ironstove actually has scum!motivation behind these posts or is just confused accusatory townie.

Going by memory, I am not taking the time to revisit my first newbie game and do a post by post comparison.

I came to play here after playing the game on another forum (anandtech) which occasionally ran a game. On that forum, it was essentially what is called a "blitz" game over here, each game day was 24-48 hours. Lynches were usually whoever had the most votes at deadline (majority did not end the day early), and nights were short as well. Lots of crazy power roles. Very quick, random games. Reads were a minor part of the game compared to here.

So for my first newbie game, I was in a huge rush to lynch someone, I jumped to conclusions, I assumed any shady behavior was scum (when it can also be gambiting town, or town trying to get a reaction), and ultimately I helped scum win by lynching town.

From what I read, it sounds like ironstove came from a similiar environment of faster paced games, and his style just reminds me of mine.

Now, it could be scum ironstove, sure. But the determining factor to me is what he actually does, not what he says he does.

i.e., acting reckless and voting around wildly and threatening to quick hammer looks scummy, but if he doesn't actually quick hammer, maybe it's just what he considers to be some sort of reaction test. If he *actually did* quick hammer, then I'd have to revise my read and say it does look a lot more like a scum play style.

This is incredibly lazy of me, but I am starving and trying to check each of my games before going to lunch, so I can't take the time to do a proper vote count, otherwise I'd probably be placing a vote here.

In post 243, Skold wrote:Everything in the last few pages is dumb and probably ought to be ignored. This is what happens when I don't bring sense to this nonsense. Nobody has anything in terms of evidence. Nobody is at all guaranteed to be any alignment except yourself. Stop spreading bad theory plz.

The notion of rationality and evidence from ms players always amused me. Perception will always be a shifting variable. Nobody is outright scumclaiming. Scumslips are rare. As long as people play to their win condition, any "evidence" someone offers is just going to be their own perspective. What matters is making people agree and see your perspective, your content doesnt matter so much (unfortunately this is just a facet of human nature!). Wall to wall interactions are especially low brow as far as the art of this game goes. If you are tunneling someone, you have nothing too gain by removing yourself from a position of superiority and bringing yourself down to the level of a pedant.

I personally believe intuition is nearly everything in this game! Intuition is just a deeper form of logic you cant really cognate consciously. Well, a few can. Some of the best players on MS are right-brained powehouses (say...faraday, fate), and know how the game works on a social level in a way that the left-brained players here (the majority imo) have a hard time conceiving. In many cases, there are much more subtle things going on than these players can imagine.

dat tangent

EnT: can you pretty please get an avatar?

no.

In post 254, Enefpe no Time wrote:no.

You just got minus 50 karnos points.

In post 239, karnos wrote:

In post 232, Soula wrote:

In post 186, karnos wrote:

In post 183, Soula wrote: Alright genius. So IV, who has been pretty much absent and only made some meta-posts about the game, you read as hard scum? OH REALLY. Fine, I'll play your game. But if he flips green, you got some explaining to do.

Here is a read for you. The above is a huge scum flag, setup so you can miss lynch IV without being blamed for the lynch and turn it into a miss lynch on Transcend the following day.

How is it a scum flag if I believe Transcend is scum? I mean he's targeting IV as HIGH SCUM when I barely get anything negative from IV, except that IV is trying to be a helpful town. I mean, jeez. I'd like to nail Transcend as mafia in round 2 and honestly it doesn't do me any good to do this as mafia anyway. I'll just guarantee that I get killed if Transcend flips green.

You think Transcend is scum, so you decide to vote with him? WTF kind of logic is that? Why are you helping scum lynch someone?

If you want to see it that way, fine. It looks bad. But if it gets a mafia in round 2, it helps Town's chances overall. Plus, I could be wrong about IV. If IV is mafia we get mafia round 1, if not, I can slam Transcend round 2 and get him. And I get that someone flipping Town doesn't mean all that much in itself, but he's so scummy at this point, I just can't ignore it.

I'm getting scummy vibes from enefpe, you, and Transcend, but one of you can't be mafia. Enefpe and Transcend both want IV's blood, so even though this looks scummy, I'm unvoting for now.
UNVOTE: Karnos

In post 252, Enefpe no Time wrote:

In post 243, Skold wrote:Everything in the last few pages is dumb and probably ought to be ignored. This is what happens when I don't bring sense to this nonsense. Nobody has anything in terms of evidence. Nobody is at all guaranteed to be any alignment except yourself. Stop spreading bad theory plz.

The notion of rationality and evidence from ms players always amused me. Perception will always be a shifting variable. Nobody is outright scumclaiming. Scumslips are rare. As long as people play to their win condition, any "evidence" someone offers is just going to be their own perspective. What matters is making people agree and see your perspective, your content doesnt matter so much (unfortunately this is just a facet of human nature!). Wall to wall interactions are especially low brow as far as the art of this game goes. If you are tunneling someone, you have nothing too gain by removing yourself from a position of superiority and bringing yourself down to the level of a pedant.

I personally believe intuition is nearly everything in this game! Intuition is just a deeper form of logic you cant really cognate consciously. Well, a few can. Some of the best players on MS are right-brained powehouses (say...faraday, fate), and know how the game works on a social level in a way that the left-brained players here (the majority imo) have a hard time conceiving. In many cases, there are much more subtle things going on than these players can imagine.

dat tangent

LOL. So basically you don't think you have to justify yourself and can fall back on claiming intuition as long as you can get people to agree with your perceptions.

WOW

JUST WOW. I should have trusted my read on you from the beginning, instead of thinking I could be smart about this.

Can we just lynch this obvious mafia now please?

VOTE: Enefpe

In post 244, Transcend wrote:K douchebag I'll stop spreading "bad theory" but watch me be right in postgame when you hand innocentvillager a cake walk scum win.

You might well be. But pretty much any scumtell is useless and you've no evidence to assume anyone is scum. Give me evidence IV is scum not fairytale bullshit.

In post 256, Soula wrote:LOL. So basically you don't think you have to justify yourself and can fall back on claiming intuition as long as you can get people to agree with your perceptions.

WOW

JUST WOW. I should have trusted my read on you from the beginning, instead of thinking I could be smart about this.

Can we just lynch this obvious mafia now please?

VOTE: Enefpe

Just. Fucking. Think about it. Why couldn't town say these things? Why couldn't silly people say silly things or even smart people get trapped into an illogical loop. I don't especially care who we lynch today because it honestly could not matter less.

In post 247, innocentvillager wrote:(since a lot of times, they're wrong!)

PS IV: This is why scumtells are stupid, irrational and useless and you should join me in the ''lets make some fucking sense and try to figure this shit out'' club.

In post 248, Enefpe no Time wrote:His reaction to the wagon was a bit flaily but I think its a combination of being brainwashed by em theory and playing a newbie game with people who arent necessarily newbies.

You agree but then justify it? I don't mind my vote hanging about here.

Hello, I'm fiddler, replacing Mori. Just going through the game now, will post a read soon!

In post 256, Soula wrote:

In post 239, karnos wrote:

In post 232, Soula wrote:

In post 186, karnos wrote:

In post 183, Soula wrote: Alright genius. So IV, who has been pretty much absent and only made some meta-posts about the game, you read as hard scum? OH REALLY. Fine, I'll play your game. But if he flips green, you got some explaining to do.

Here is a read for you. The above is a huge scum flag, setup so you can miss lynch IV without being blamed for the lynch and turn it into a miss lynch on Transcend the following day.

How is it a scum flag if I believe Transcend is scum? I mean he's targeting IV as HIGH SCUM when I barely get anything negative from IV, except that IV is trying to be a helpful town. I mean, jeez. I'd like to nail Transcend as mafia in round 2 and honestly it doesn't do me any good to do this as mafia anyway. I'll just guarantee that I get killed if Transcend flips green.

You think Transcend is scum, so you decide to vote with him? WTF kind of logic is that? Why are you helping scum lynch someone?

If you want to see it that way, fine. It looks bad. But if it gets a mafia in round 2, it helps Town's chances overall. Plus, I could be wrong about IV. If IV is mafia we get mafia round 1, if not, I can slam Transcend round 2 and get him. And I get that someone flipping Town doesn't mean all that much in itself, but he's so scummy at this point, I just can't ignore it.

I'm getting scummy vibes from enefpe, you, and Transcend, but one of you can't be mafia. Enefpe and Transcend both want IV's blood, so even though this looks scummy, I'm unvoting for now.
UNVOTE: Karnos

In post 252, Enefpe no Time wrote:

In post 243, Skold wrote:Everything in the last few pages is dumb and probably ought to be ignored. This is what happens when I don't bring sense to this nonsense. Nobody has anything in terms of evidence. Nobody is at all guaranteed to be any alignment except yourself. Stop spreading bad theory plz.

The notion of rationality and evidence from ms players always amused me. Perception will always be a shifting variable. Nobody is outright scumclaiming. Scumslips are rare. As long as people play to their win condition, any "evidence" someone offers is just going to be their own perspective. What matters is making people agree and see your perspective, your content doesnt matter so much (unfortunately this is just a facet of human nature!). Wall to wall interactions are especially low brow as far as the art of this game goes. If you are tunneling someone, you have nothing too gain by removing yourself from a position of superiority and bringing yourself down to the level of a pedant.

I personally believe intuition is nearly everything in this game! Intuition is just a deeper form of logic you cant really cognate consciously. Well, a few can. Some of the best players on MS are right-brained powehouses (say...faraday, fate), and know how the game works on a social level in a way that the left-brained players here (the majority imo) have a hard time conceiving. In many cases, there are much more subtle things going on than these players can imagine.

dat tangent

LOL. So basically you don't think you have to justify yourself and can fall back on claiming intuition as long as you can get people to agree with your perceptions.

WOW

JUST WOW. I should have trusted my read on you from the beginning, instead of thinking I could be smart about this.

Can we just lynch this obvious mafia now please?

VOTE: Enefpe

Um lol? My position is a bit more nuanced than that but okay? Also wasnt it a bit obvious that i was just discussing theory rather than coming at it from any angle of justification? This is a very weird omgus, my vote feels right.

In post 260, Skold wrote:

In post 248, Enefpe no Time wrote:His reaction to the wagon was a bit flaily but I think its a combination of being brainwashed by em theory and playing a newbie game with people who arent necessarily newbies.

You agree but then justify it? I don't mind my vote hanging about here.

You dont think town flail as well? Its hardly an alignment tell. Not sure where you are coming from

In post 258, Skold wrote:

In post 256, Soula wrote:LOL. So basically you don't think you have to justify yourself and can fall back on claiming intuition as long as you can get people to agree with your perceptions.

WOW

JUST WOW. I should have trusted my read on you from the beginning, instead of thinking I could be smart about this.

Can we just lynch this obvious mafia now please?

VOTE: Enefpe

Just. Fucking. Think about it. Why couldn't town say these things? Why couldn't silly people say silly things or even smart people get trapped into an illogical loop. I don't especially care who we lynch today because it honestly could not matter less.

No, not even. Enefpe refuses to even engage on a level that meets other players eye-to-eye. But claims there's some "social" aspect that he gets and the rest of us don't. That doesn't sound very social to me. Then there's this huge reliance on intuition reading IV HIGH Scum (and let's not forget Joushi as well) and not backing it up with some kind of argument. He's just going to sit there, not really participating, letting Town eat itself. Enefpe has already had a chance to explain his reads, but just refuses. That's not really someone being silly; they are keeping their options open so they can say what they want and go after who they want without having their behavior scrutinized. How can you trust a player like this? Even better question, what good is it for a Town Enefpe to play like this?

In post 259, Skold wrote:

In post 247, innocentvillager wrote:(since a lot of times, they're wrong!)

PS IV: This is why scumtells are stupid, irrational and useless and you should join me in the ''lets make some fucking sense and try to figure this shit out'' club.

Well yeah of course. It's round 1 and you're not likely to make sense of the game until at least round 2. But sitting around expecting everything to be laid out in front of you or thinking you are going to make sense of everything sounds pretty scummy, like you want to avoid scum-hunting and setting yourself up for scrutiny. I'm surprised no one has gone after you for not scum-hunting. Maybe there's been too much other stuff going on. But you got any thoughts about the interactions going on here? Or you just want to not participate?

In post 262, Enefpe no Time wrote:

In post 256, Soula wrote:

In post 239, karnos wrote:

In post 232, Soula wrote:

In post 186, karnos wrote:

In post 183, Soula wrote: Alright genius. So IV, who has been pretty much absent and only made some meta-posts about the game, you read as hard scum? OH REALLY. Fine, I'll play your game. But if he flips green, you got some explaining to do.

Here is a read for you. The above is a huge scum flag, setup so you can miss lynch IV without being blamed for the lynch and turn it into a miss lynch on Transcend the following day.

How is it a scum flag if I believe Transcend is scum? I mean he's targeting IV as HIGH SCUM when I barely get anything negative from IV, except that IV is trying to be a helpful town. I mean, jeez. I'd like to nail Transcend as mafia in round 2 and honestly it doesn't do me any good to do this as mafia anyway. I'll just guarantee that I get killed if Transcend flips green.

You think Transcend is scum, so you decide to vote with him? WTF kind of logic is that? Why are you helping scum lynch someone?

If you want to see it that way, fine. It looks bad. But if it gets a mafia in round 2, it helps Town's chances overall. Plus, I could be wrong about IV. If IV is mafia we get mafia round 1, if not, I can slam Transcend round 2 and get him. And I get that someone flipping Town doesn't mean all that much in itself, but he's so scummy at this point, I just can't ignore it.

I'm getting scummy vibes from enefpe, you, and Transcend, but one of you can't be mafia. Enefpe and Transcend both want IV's blood, so even though this looks scummy, I'm unvoting for now.
UNVOTE: Karnos

In post 252, Enefpe no Time wrote:

In post 243, Skold wrote:Everything in the last few pages is dumb and probably ought to be ignored. This is what happens when I don't bring sense to this nonsense. Nobody has anything in terms of evidence. Nobody is at all guaranteed to be any alignment except yourself. Stop spreading bad theory plz.

The notion of rationality and evidence from ms players always amused me. Perception will always be a shifting variable. Nobody is outright scumclaiming. Scumslips are rare. As long as people play to their win condition, any "evidence" someone offers is just going to be their own perspective. What matters is making people agree and see your perspective, your content doesnt matter so much (unfortunately this is just a facet of human nature!). Wall to wall interactions are especially low brow as far as the art of this game goes. If you are tunneling someone, you have nothing too gain by removing yourself from a position of superiority and bringing yourself down to the level of a pedant.

I personally believe intuition is nearly everything in this game! Intuition is just a deeper form of logic you cant really cognate consciously. Well, a few can. Some of the best players on MS are right-brained powehouses (say...faraday, fate), and know how the game works on a social level in a way that the left-brained players here (the majority imo) have a hard time conceiving. In many cases, there are much more subtle things going on than these players can imagine.

dat tangent

LOL. So basically you don't think you have to justify yourself and can fall back on claiming intuition as long as you can get people to agree with your perceptions.

WOW

JUST WOW. I should have trusted my read on you from the beginning, instead of thinking I could be smart about this.

Can we just lynch this obvious mafia now please?

VOTE: Enefpe

Um lol? My position is a bit more nuanced than that but okay? Also wasnt it a bit obvious that i was just discussing theory rather than coming at it from any angle of justification? This is a very weird omgus, my vote feels right.

How is your position more nuanced? Your response is not only expected, but it's exactly the kind of thinking I'm talking about. All you did here is respond with OMGUS. Wow, GREAT EXPLANATION. It's not going to work. I hate to maybe agree with you on intuition, but I was right about you. I'm sure of it.

In post 263, Enefpe no Time wrote:You dont think town flail as well? Its hardly an alignment tell. Not sure where you are coming from

I don't see why you would mention it, knowing that it's not a tell.

In post 264, Soula wrote:Even better question, what good is it for a Town Enefpe to play like this?

Wrong question. The correct question is ''why couldn't town Enefpe be this stupid'' and there is no answer.

Why is soula treating me like i abused him in a past life its weird af. I dont even want to address such an aggressive tonality. To say i havent been doing townie things and am some evil scum mastermind / evil evil man who believes in the power of intuition (apparently i cant be reasoned with, either) ergo im bad at mafia as well. So im scum and a terrible person, apparently.

my dudes i meditate my heart chakra is taking a beating here

I need to meditate ;(

In post 266, Skold wrote:

In post 263, Enefpe no Time wrote:You dont think town flail as well? Its hardly an alignment tell. Not sure where you are coming from

I don't see why you would mention it, knowing that it's not a tell.

Why do you act like you know me?

...?

Uhhh...wat.

In post 269, Enefpe no Time wrote:I need to meditate ;(

See ya later guru

Fyi, I'm requesting a replacement. Enefpe saying I think he abused me in a past life is my limit.

lmao