Mafiascum.net

I had other reads at that point iirc

I will be here after I get home later tonight.

TGP, what was the basis for your Hopkirk suspicion yesterday? Where do you stand on him today? Has Ari's townflip changed your mind about Hopkirk?

In post 221, BlackVoid wrote:Hi. I'll be catching up over the next few days. As a heads up, I'm usually online in the mornings and after midnight.

How is your catchup going, BlackVoid? I am interested to see this slot get back in the game.

In post 232, insanity018 wrote:I think TheGoldenParadox's response to Ari's wagon reeks the most. The way he unvoted despite thinking that there is a 'very reasonable chance he's scum' feels like someone who wanted to get off a town off mislynch wagon, while leaving his options open. The fact that he doesn't give any reasons for why Hopkirk was apparently scummier excerpt for 'meta' is also not good.

I like this read.

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

In post 240, TheGoldenParadox wrote:

In post 237, Hopkirk wrote:I need to reread TGP/Ray's slot and the game as a whole at some point.

@Reckoner: What do you think about my thoughts on you from yesterday?

Still waiting on TGP to go over which games he's talking about. If he just meant the one we were in together, that's finished now.

Gest Idea
Dragon Hunters
Marked for Death #1

Yes, what about them?

I reread the entire game, realized I don't really give a shit about this game, and my reads haven't really changed much since the last time I talked about them.

VOTE: Golden Paradox

L-1.

I like the company, dislike the slot, and don't really care enough about the game to try and make people engage anymore.

I could be convinced to wagon anyone outside of {me, reck, insanity, hiplop) at this point, btw.

uh what

hiplop isn't in this game???

Hopkirk. I have read entirely too many words today.

Your sudden cavalier attitude is highly unsettling, Jingle.

I understand the rest of your townreads, but what justifies Hopkirk's position there?

In post 243, Keychain wrote: <snip>

In post 181, Hopkirk wrote:@Insanity: I don’t ‘scumread’ you. That’s too hard a term. I’m suspicious and working on sorting you. I’m most suspicious of Ari/Reckless right now. You seem like a less likely partner for either.

Backing off when confronted seems like he's avoiding conflict with you, and the later picking over whether you'd noticed his formatting was broken feels like kind of a weak attempt to find something to poke at which was easily resolved.

Hmm

I agree that Hopkirk seemed to be focusing on scumreads on him and the formatting thing was weird. I didn't get the sense he was trying to avoid conflict there though, I might have to read that again. But, I think TheGoldenParadox is scum here and they look unlikely to be on a team together.

In post 246, Hopkirk wrote:Reread Rayfrost and I still like him. TGP has a lot of odd phrasing and perspectives, but I can see that being newb-town. This is partially meta based since I just finished a game where the only scum was his top townread. Want to get more from him on what I’ve asked though since I don’t understand the point he’s trying to make with the meta stuff- or rather why he’s trying to make a point there.

What do you make of the timing? The fact TheGoldenParadox used his vague, unexplained meta points to jump off Ari's wagon.

In post 255, Jingle wrote:I could be convinced to wagon anyone outside of {me, reck, insanity, hiplop) at this point, btw.

Maaaaybe replace Hopkirk with Keychain and that's where I'm at.

@Insanity: TGP's jump off was bad, but I can see him doing it as town if he thinks he's got something. That's why I want to establish what he thinks he's got and if it looks real.

I like Keychain after rereading the iso. Yesterday I though he'd acting a bit oddly in regards to Ari, but his approach is consistent- not at all what I was thinking.

Luca's slot needing a fourth player technically makes it suspicious.
TGP I still need to sort fully. Unlikely to be with Korts (s/t or t/t).
Reckoner/Korts are my scumreads/leans right now.

In post 252, Korts wrote:TGP, what was the basis for your Hopkirk suspicion yesterday? Where do you stand on him today? Has Ari's townflip changed your mind about Hopkirk?

In post 221, BlackVoid wrote:Hi. I'll be catching up over the next few days. As a heads up, I'm usually online in the mornings and after midnight.

How is your catchup going, BlackVoid? I am interested to see this slot get back in the game.

I'm going to trust Ari that reck and insanity are town because he became an IC.
Korts seems somewhat towny, scumhunting, and doing a decent job in the game.
Keychain is null-town.
Blackvoid is null.
Jingle is townlean for the same reason as Korts but doing better on that line.
So that leavs hopkirk, and by PoE he's the most likely cum to me.
VOTE: Hopkirk

Do you actually know what POE means? If it's me by POE then I have to be a scumread already given you have neutral reads.
Plus it's dreadful POE if you eliminate all but one person when there's three scum left.
Saying Ari's reads are gospel because he's dead is stupid.
You haven't answered anyone's questions.
You haven't explained your read on me/why you think I'm scum.

Not hammering since I'm having a hard time seeing scum being so stupid when he's on L1 and his 'top scumread' isn't voting him yet.

TGP, none of that explains your meta angle. You brought up three specific games where Hopkirk's play... was different as town, I guess? You didn't say what about those games was interesting. Please clarify.

Or have you ditched the meta argument in favor of this process of elimination thing? How does a null read eliminate someone from suspicion?

In post 264, Hopkirk wrote:Not hammering since I'm having a hard time seeing scum being so stupid when he's on L1 and his 'top scumread' isn't voting him yet.

Does this mean that you are reading TGP as incompetent town?

In post 265, Korts wrote:TGP, none of that explains your meta angle. You brought up three specific games where Hopkirk's play... was different as town, I guess? You didn't say what about those games was interesting. Please clarify.

Or have you ditched the meta argument in favor of this process of elimination thing? How does a null read eliminate someone from suspicion?

The games he mentioned were actually groupscum, town, and (third party that changes alignment) in a upick that I broke.

In post 266, Korts wrote:

In post 264, Hopkirk wrote:Not hammering since I'm having a hard time seeing scum being so stupid when he's on L1 and his 'top scumread' isn't voting him yet.

Does this mean that you are reading TGP as incompetent town?

Currently yes.

In post 267, Hopkirk wrote:The games he mentioned were actually groupscum, town, and (third party that changes alignment) in a upick that I broke.

Soooo just random noise then, not actually relevant analysis.

I don't read this as incompetence. It looks much more like taking the piss.

Reading back through his iso of the game I played with him (both town) and it looks very different to how I remember it- and very different to this game. He was engaging across the playerbase rather than focusing, and some of his analysis was good.

More likely scum than I was thinking actually.

In post 261, Hopkirk wrote:Luca's slot needing a fourth player technically makes it suspicious.
TGP I still need to sort fully. Unlikely to be with Korts (s/t or t/t).
Reckoner/Korts are my scumreads/leans right now.

I could see me being blinded by Korts because I just really wanted to play with him but I don't forsee me making a move on that until we have at least another flip.

In post 258, Korts wrote:Your sudden cavalier attitude is highly unsettling, Jingle.

I understand the rest of your townreads, but what justifies Hopkirk's position there?

I have been unexpectedly busy with something that I cannot really go into detail about but which is public information. Suffice to say, I made a commitment, and it is taking up more time than I expected. There is a reason I'm not playing in or modding any other games at the moment, that I expected to be significantly less time consuming at this point but has failed to quiet down. It will likely be months before I can go into this in any meaningful fashion.

As far as my specific lack of motivation for this game, well, I feel like that is something that is pretty obvious. We lynched my deathtunnel target, and he was town. The player I was most excited about playing with (Ray) replaced out. The rest of the playerlist (who tbf, are mostly pretty awesome candidates to get me excited for a game) have failed to interact with either me or each other in meaningful ways for days at a time. And not a couple days here or there, but where we had literally 0 forward momentum for a solid week.

The Hopkirk (Don't Lynch) read is for a few things. I still don't agree with insanity's CoA case. I think the replacement was nulltown. I think Hopkirk himself has been mostly null, although I liked his interaction with the Ari wagon. Most importantly though? He's actively trying to drive the game forward, and I really don't see that changing. Lynching him leaves us even deader in the water, which is pretty much the worst case scenario for town here regardless of his alignment. At least if he's scum he's active scum and we have a chance to build good reads on him based on flips and who he's pushing.

I agree with Reck's 270 on Korts. I'd prefer to lynch TGP or LucaSlot over him because I think a scumflip in either of those gives us a reasonable Korts town expectation and I think he has the ability to rally town if he tries. I could still compromise on a Korts lynch for today if someone has a decent argument though.

If I have more time, I'll probably do some meta dives. This probably won't happen in the near future, unfortunately.

...

You haven't even answered the main question TheGoldenParadox.

In post 242, insanity018 wrote:

In post 240, TheGoldenParadox wrote:

In post 237, Hopkirk wrote: Still waiting on TGP to go over which games he's talking about. If he just meant the one we were in together, that's finished now.

Gest Idea
Dragon Hunters
Marked for Death #1

Why do these games make you think Hopkirk is scum here? Why did these games make you switch your vote to Hopkirk, when Aristophanes already had a large wagon and you believed Ari had a very reasonable chance of being scum?

In post 272, insanity018 wrote:...

You haven't even answered the main question TheGoldenParadox.

In post 242, insanity018 wrote:

In post 240, TheGoldenParadox wrote:

In post 237, Hopkirk wrote: Still waiting on TGP to go over which games he's talking about. If he just meant the one we were in together, that's finished now.

Gest Idea
Dragon Hunters
Marked for Death #1

Why do these games make you think Hopkirk is scum here? Why did these games make you switch your vote to Hopkirk, when Aristophanes already had a large wagon and you believed Ari had a very reasonable chance of being scum?

B/C his meta here shows that his behavior as town is very different from his behavior here.

Paradox, you kind of just ignored the whole exchange between Korts and Hopkirk about those games and how apparently in only one of them is Hopkirk town. It would have been nice to get links but I can find the games myself to check.

If you think he's playing different, I would like something concrete. 269 would be an example of how to do that.

In post 246, Hopkirk wrote:@Keychain: The first point there isn’t complex. I’m saying Reck looks fake since he says he has a strong townread on Insanity but doesn’t act like he does. If he hard townreads her for her stuff on CoA he should be voting CoA with her at that point.
Also, I townread Insanity based on those interactions. It sounds like you’re trying to paint it like I’m nitpicking her then scumreading her for it.

This point you've said here isn't complex, no, but it is still flawed. You can easily townread someone for a read without strictly agreeing with it and voting with them, since it's generally more about whether you believe that read is likely to come from town or scum than whether it's the same as yours.
I said it's overly complex because while you have this core idea, you also have the theory that it's a buddying attempt, and also an opinion on the associatives between them with the assumption that Reck is scum. Like that seems a lot of things to layer on.
It's true that coming out of that weird formatting discussion with a townread is a point in your favour (though if you'd managed to scumread someone over something like that, I'd have been pretty perplexed) - but it still doesn't erase the fact that you appeared to avoid conflict over a read and instead manufactured it over a detail that seemed fairly meaningless.

In post 268, Korts wrote:

In post 267, Hopkirk wrote:The games he mentioned were actually groupscum, town, and (third party that changes alignment) in a upick that I broke.

Soooo just random noise then, not actually relevant analysis.

I don't read this as incompetence. It looks much more like taking the piss.

... Is taking the piss scum indicative? If so, I'd be interested in hearing what you think suggests Paradox is deliberately making such bizarre arguments and isn't just a bit clueless.


On another note I'm more than happy to totally shelve Jingle for today. Losing momentum after Ari flipped town is towny considering if he pushed that wagon as scum I'd expect him to try for another today instead of stalling.