Newbie 1996: GAME OVER

[3bounty]

Need more content from peaches but I'm slight scum lean. Her RVS vote seems a bit non random with the question to Alo.

Did you get the feeling from Peaches that not making a RVS vote was some sort of alignment tell?

What?

[Aloratom]

Need more content from peaches but I'm slight scum lean. Her RVS vote seems a bit non random with the question to Alo.

Did you get the feeling from Peaches that not making a RVS vote was some sort of alignment tell?

What?

Why did you think Peaches's RVS vote felt somewhat non-random?

[LuckyLuciano]

UNVOTE: InWho22
VOTE: Aloratom

I decided to do some research as to whether he always speaks in a manner that is intentionally obfuscating. After all, he did say that he is communicating the way he is this game deliberately (195). The first thing that popped out when viewing his topics was a mafia PT: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=82227. I decided to look there first, because if there is ever a time you would communicate clearly, it's with your known teammates. He speaks very clearly there. He also speaks very clearly in the game itself: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go. Of note, is post 12 of the mafia PT,

That's fine with me.

The only Intel I have is on geraintm. He's back after a long break. He's from Wales, so his posts are GMT. He doesn't post during weekends. He was scum in a newbie game I just finished. When he talked it was in a confusing manner.

I don't think it was wholly by design. There was a lot hemming and hawing. Talking but not saying anything. I'll be interested to see if he does that as Town. If so, he's a good lynch candidate.

I looked up that newbie game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81784. Mafia won a flawless game. While I think geraintm's communication was clearer in that game than Aloratom's is here, he both found it memorable enough to point out in a later mafia PT, and this game he said his confusing language is deliberate, which is backed up by looking at other games he's played. It looks to me like he is trying to imitate a characteristic of a player who perfect gamed him as scum. I don't know why he would imitate this as town, especially when he said in the mafia PT that if geraintm spoke confusingly he would use it to try and mislynch geraintm. There appears to be plenty of motive to imitate this as scum.

[LuckyLuciano]

The fact that he is both capable of intelligibly interpreting what people say, and communicating eloquently both reinforce my earlier belief that his readings of my statements were deliberately off-base and made in bad faith. More damning that making his own speech more difficult to decipher is choosing to misrepresent what other players say.

[LuckyLuciano]

Actually that unvote should be on Peaches. You know a player has been flying under the radar when you forget they are in the game even after you vote them for activity.

[Aloratom]

UNVOTE: InWho22
VOTE: Aloratom

I decided to do some research as to whether he always speaks in a manner that is intentionally obfuscating. After all, he did say that he is communicating the way he is this game deliberately (195). The first thing that popped out when viewing his topics was a mafia PT: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=82227. I decided to look there first, because if there is ever a time you would communicate clearly, it's with your known teammates. He speaks very clearly there. He also speaks very clearly in the game itself: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go. Of note, is post 12 of the mafia PT,

That's fine with me.

The only Intel I have is on geraintm. He's back after a long break. He's from Wales, so his posts are GMT. He doesn't post during weekends. He was scum in a newbie game I just finished. When he talked it was in a confusing manner.

I don't think it was wholly by design. There was a lot hemming and hawing. Talking but not saying anything. I'll be interested to see if he does that as Town. If so, he's a good lynch candidate.

I looked up that newbie game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81784. Mafia won a flawless game. While I think geraintm's communication was clearer in that game than Aloratom's is here, he both found it memorable enough to point out in a later mafia PT, and this game he said his confusing language is deliberate, which is backed up by looking at other games he's played. It looks to me like he is trying to imitate a characteristic of a player who perfect gamed him as scum. I don't know why he would imitate this as town, especially when he said in the mafia PT that if geraintm spoke confusingly he would use it to try and mislynch geraintm. There appears to be plenty of motive to imitate this as scum.

I'm sorry that you find my language confusing, Lucky. It's not intended to be, despite your assertion to the contrary. I did say that my style and word choice for the most part are deliberate, but to say that I'm intentionally confusing people is incorrect. Can you point to where I've confused you so that we can clear it up?

And I'm happy that you are reading my past games. You should read Newbie 1986 and Newbie 1994 while you're at it. Those were exciting. Newbie 1991 would be a good one too.

[LuckyLuciano]

I looked at 1994 first, and the way you speak there aligns with the other games of yours I have seen, and does not match the way you speak here. Before I waste my time looking at the other games, why don't we cut to the chase. You are deliberately structuring your sentences differently this game than in your other games.

Why?

[Aloratom]

I looked at 1994 first, and the way you speak there aligns with the other games of yours I have seen, and does not match the way you speak here. Before I waste my time looking at the other games, why don't we cut to the chase. You are deliberately structuring your sentences differently this game than in your other games.

Why?

I'm sorry, Lucky,. I don't have an answer for you. Can you point to where I've confused you this game? Are you upset that I asked you to clarify things that I haven't understood?

[Aloratom]

Take a look at why I was lynched Day 2 in Newbie 1986. I think that may help you understand me, and you will probably find it amusing. You probably need just look at the twilight posts. It's related, I believe, to what we are discussing, deliberate word choice and sentence structure.

[LuckyLuciano]

For the reference of the other players in the game: Posts 108, 112, 113, 149, and 204 all represent areas of the game where I feel that Aloratom's interpretation of what is said is far enough off-base to be beyond any sort of standard deviation that could be derived from any of his games I have looked at up to this point. That is to say, I believe his capacity to correctly interpret statements is proven in his past games. It is very possible for him to misunderstand something here or there, but his misunderstandings have been frequent enough, and egregious enough for me to consider them intentional.

Further, since Aloratom wanted me to look at some of his other games, and I did assuming he would come off as deliberately obfuscating in those as well, yet be town (spoiler: this is still the only game of his I have seen where he acts this way), I have come to realize that 175 is a lie.

Reference:

Newbie 1994

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11693906
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11693960

Of note: 3b played with Aloratom in that game yet neither called out Aloratom for 175, nor for his strikingly different approach to the game than what was displayed in 1994.

pedit: Aloratom, I'm not going to start arguing with you that you are behaving differently in this game than in your others, when you know that it is true. I asked you why. You chose not to answer, and instead to deny it. Either I'm crazy, or every other player in the game is going to be able to look at any of your other games and see what I see. You can either explain your deliberate change in approach to the game, or you can be lynched. I have reason to believe that the change is scum-motivated, based on the fact that you were perfect gamed as town, and your takeaway from that game, as indicated by the mafia PT of yours I posted, was that one of the scum spoke in a confusing way.

[LuckyLuciano]

I humored you and looked at 1986. You still speak eloquently there, unlike here. You were lynched despite breadcrumbing. Breadcrumbing is not the same as acting in a disorienting manner. It's 2:20am here, I'm going to bed. Hopefully you are lynched before I wake up.

I dislike day one associative analysis, but for the sake of vanity I'm going to say that 3b and HEM make the most sense as partners for Aloratom.

[Aloratom]

@Aloratom, lol...

Does this mean that the bolded part of this: "It definitely wasn't because I slept on it,

and was 100% because I would rather appease a player making a weak push that will never actually lead to my lynch anyway

," was sarcasm?

Or should I just leave an open-ended question and ask what you meant by "@Aloratom, lol...?"

Yes.

To which question are you replying?

If you would answer this one, Lucky, I'd appreciate it.

[Aloratom]

Also, Lucky, your original point was that I was using confusing language. The offer stands. If you'll direct me to where I confused you, I'll do my best to explain it.

On the other hand, if your point now is that I'm intentionally misunderstanding your posts, I think I need you to explain in clear terms why you originally accused me of intentionally using confusing language. I'm not sure how the two arguments work together. And if there's a particular post that you want me to explain why I questioned it, I'm willing to do that.

[3bounty]

Hmmmm. Nah sorry can't see it. Alo is probably town. You're correct I played 1994 with him, but I subbed in halfway through day 1, and the game had no day 2 so. Not much content there at all, dont expect me to be an Alo expert, I am just as confused as the rest by some of his posts in here.

Rereading some of InWho22's recent posts, starting to get lamist vibes.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Votecount 1.04

humaneatingmonkey - (1)

- Holdengolden

LuckyLuciano - (2)

- Yooh, humaneatingmonkey

Aloratom - (2)

- Peaches, Luckyluciano

Inwho22 - (1)

- 3bounty,

Peaches - (1)

- Kirari Momobami

3bounty - (1)

- inwho22

Not Voting (1) -

Aloratom

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-04-19 06:15:00)

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Also can we get a VC?

For requests like this please make them bold. Sometimes I just scan the thread for votes and I missed this.

[Peaches]

Peaches, mind weighing in on the drama? It seems we were overshadowed by Aloratom not doing RVS, and I don't like sharing the spotlight.

I dont get it.

RVS votes can provide information later on in the game. Town's strongest tool is their vote. I dont get why Aloratom didn't place an RVS vote. I still want @Aloratom to answer.

[InWho22]

Peaches, mind weighing in on the drama? It seems we were overshadowed by Aloratom not doing RVS, and I don't like sharing the spotlight.

I dont get it.

RVS votes can provide information later on in the game. Town's strongest tool is their vote. I dont get why Aloratom didn't place an RVS vote. I still want @Aloratom to answer.

Well, apart from that, do you have any thoughts the rest of the game right now? What do you think about LL's recent case against Alora? What did you think of the early feud between HEM and LL? Please weigh in on the game.

[InWho22]

While I do partly agree with LL's recent posts, in that I already found Alora's gameplay focused posts to be consistently unintuitive, I will have to spend some time looking the referenced games through. With 8 days left I think a lynch at this moment would be pointless, but I do think it is worth it to look into the case.
Having said that (and keeping in mind that my mind may change once I've read the evidence), this does feel rather like at the start of the game with LL, in that he is possibly saying that we should just instantly lynch someone for possibly in some way having shown a sign of scum.
(And the last possibility is of course just that LL is bad at reading.)

[InWho22]

What also strikes me about LL's case on Alora s that Lucky himself has several times been just as confusing with his language, even to an extent that appears deliberate. You have already seen them so I will just leave the mentioned posts below. While LL's case here is that Alora is deviating from his normal writing style and that he himself isn't (and I don't think there's much of a point looking at language like this anyway), it does take away from LL's argument.

You want to do something other than be wrong about me all game so I can townclear you as well? Y'know, with the whole being wrong=null thing.

you dropped my wagon and pursued inwho22. i assume you did this because you think im town. am i wrong?

Correct.

@Aloratom, lol...

Does this mean that the bolded part of this: "It definitely wasn't because I slept on it,

and was 100% because I would rather appease a player making a weak push that will never actually lead to my lynch anyway

," was sarcasm?

Or should I just leave an open-ended question and ask what you meant by "@Aloratom, lol...?"

Yes.

[InWho22]

VOTE: Peaches
This is the currently biggest obstacle in town's progress. Please contribute, @Peaches.

[Aloratom]

I humored you and looked at 1986. You still speak eloquently there, unlike here. You were lynched despite breadcrumbing. Breadcrumbing is not the same as acting in a disorienting manner. It's 2:20am here, I'm going to bed. Hopefully you are lynched before I wake up.

I dislike day one associative analysis, but for the sake of vanity I'm going to say that 3b and HEM make the most sense as partners for Aloratom.

For what it's worth, Lucky, you come off to me as either frustrated Town or desperate mafia. I think it's likely the former. This post stands out:

UNVOTE: Monkey
VOTE: InWho22

Half a prod dodge because it's clear that this day is being driven by tunneling and I don't want to be a part of it. Half because 3 players have been given a free pass to do nothing because this day is being driven by tunneling. Cya guys again in another 24 hours, or day two.

I think it likely mafia doesn't become invested in a game so early so as to: 1) make this post, and 2) not abide by it.

[Aloratom]

I don't like Holden's posts at page 7 and 8, but maybe I'm just too serious for this.

I'm not seeing a problem. Can you elaborate?

[Aloratom]

While I do partly agree with LL's recent posts, in that I already found Alora's gameplay focused posts to be consistently unintuitive, I will have to spend some time looking the referenced games through. With 8 days left I think a lynch at this moment would be pointless, but I do think it is worth it to look into the case.
Having said that (and keeping in mind that my mind may change once I've read the evidence), this does feel rather like at the start of the game with LL, in that he is possibly saying that we should just instantly lynch someone for possibly in some way having shown a sign of scum.
(And the last possibility is of course just that LL is bad at reading.)

You can look through those games, but meta diving is generally a waste of resources. I'm not trying to hide anything -- it's out there for all to see, but the only meta that I rely on comes through my own experience with the other players in the game. I provided other games that I've been involved in for Lucky to look at because of his interest and to aid his discovery process. In this game I won't be looking up anyone's past games. I've done it before and found it to be of limited value. I have limited experience with 3Bounty, but that's it. I think you probably should follow-up on Lucky's case, however, if you think there is something there, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you or anyone else may have.

[Aloratom]

While I do partly agree with LL's recent posts, in that I already found Alora's gameplay focused posts to be consistently unintuitive, I will have to spend some time looking the referenced games through. With 8 days left I think a lynch at this moment would be pointless, but I do think it is worth it to look into the case.
Having said that (and keeping in mind that my mind may change once I've read the evidence), this does feel rather like at the start of the game with LL, in that he is possibly saying that we should just instantly lynch someone for possibly in some way having shown a sign of scum.
(And the last possibility is of course just that LL is bad at reading.)

Can I ask what you mean by "gameplay focused posts?"