In post 219, clidd wrote:1- In post 37, you, like me and Ydrasse, made a visual error when referring to a post that was out of the context of post 25, which was 13 instead of 16. But now speaking, in fact, from post 16, what is your impression of the question inserted in it ? normal, strange or not very useful ?
2- Post 97, there is a conflict between you and SJ, precisely because of what SJ hinted in post 95, about your activity. Something I didn't really understand in this context was the need for you to insert a visual resource that supported your argument, considering that just citing a public number of your posts would be enough. Have there been any situations in past games where a scum player made a derogatory remark about you that bothered you ? if not, why didn't you act in a simpler way in relation to this, considering that you would, hypothetically, have the reason in this clash ?
3- In summary, what are your general reads ? (no order/readlist, just describe it in your words).
4- The tonalities in posts 132, 141, 142, 143, 184 indicate a certain trend in relation to the development that you, theoretically, would be giving to read on SJ based on the responses (which I imagine would be negative). Why didn't a vote take place on him ?
5- In your interactions with midway, you do not get to comment on my dialogue with him, in which I indicate that he was ignoring me in a scenario where he, normally, should be talking to me. Is there any value, in your opinion, for a deviation from the standard behavior that I was imagining that midway would adopt ? can he be doing the exact opposite that I imagine he would do in relation to my slot be interpreted as an AI thing ?
1 - I think 16 is a good, normal question, I don't think it speaks much about your alignment since that's an easy question to ask as scum, but it's something I appreciate being raised and pressuring mujie on.
2 - I feel like y'all are acting like it takes substantial effort to take a screenshot and put it on imgur. it took me less than a minute and I wanted to do it to make the point with flair. Plus it does have the benefit of being definitive proof that I was among the most active players in the game so far.
Honestly I feel like I remember similarly being tilted when being accused of activity tells, but I did a brief self search and couldn't find great examples.
Here's a time when scum pulled that on me, I called them out and defended myself in much the same way, but was definitely more calm.
Here's another time when I was accused of low activity, but I was in a good mood and didn't take the bait here either. Note again though that I did ask pretty much the same question as I asked to SJReaver, wanting an explanation for what I was 'supposed' to be commenting on or doing that I supposedly hadn't.
also, for consideration, here's a couple times how I have responded
as scum
when someone made a similar accusation. In this newbie game here - click me - I was more toned down and guarded, because I think good scum play is to emit naturally calm/cool vibes and not give people excuses to vote you.
here's another newbie game where I was scum - click me - and responded in a much more mellow way.
so idk, I think I was just amped up earlier, but I would note that my response in defending myself and asking for an explanation of why I was accused of being quiet/not commenting on things matches earlier times I've similarly been accused as town.
3 - I think you, Ydrasse, and Mujie are very likely town. I think SJReaver and Pearofclubs are
probably
town - no interest in voting there today but if I'm wrong on my scumreads elsewhere I could see myself being wrong on them and revisiting it later in the game. I scumread midwaybear and I don't have feelings either way on bebop or Walter, I don't think they've given anything indicative yet to work with.
4 - I've been trying to make sure I don't let frustration with SJReaver cloud my interpretation of what she's doing. I still think she misrepped me by saying I was quiet, and if she's competent scum then the bravado is a neat trick to sound townie, but at the same time I can imagine a town!SJR thinking my response was over the top and being suspicious. I also think midway bear's commentary on our clash and SJR's response to it makes her spewed town if midwaybear is mafia.
5 - I'm not sure I follow this question - I think you're asking me if I agree with you that him ignoring you might be AI? I don't know your history with midwaybear so I don't have expectations of how he should/would play, but I definitely suspect him for the angles he's taken on me vs SJR and if you feel he's vibing differently than you would expect him to as town then I encourage you to vote him with me.
I'll take a look when I finish my current analysis.
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:56 pm
by clidd
In post 247, mujie wrote:@Clidd: Looking back at your clarification on the question, I think I misread it. I thought you were asking for a long-term plan, but you were asking what would I do with the longer time. Thankfully, I think that even though I misunderstood what you wanted, in a roundabout way, I actually didn't completely miss the question? The universe man. It's sometimes good.
Here's the curious thing though. And it only came to me a bit ago. Genuinely, how would it have helped you? In the game I was Mafia in, (I don't know if I had originally said it was a newbie game, but it turns out that was just my memory playing tricks on me, and it was an open game.) I hadn't stayed too long (although it looks like I stayed longer than I thought I did), and it was, oh my god, it was 7 years ago. But had I answered your question fully, if I was Mafia, I would've just lied. And if you had found it contradictory to how I played, I could have easily just said it was due to the 7 year gap. So, I am curious what you hoped to achieve with it.
My assessment consists of the process with which you formulate your answer, to define whether you are coming from a scum mentality or not. There is no correct answer.
I do not intend to explain further than what I have already demonstrated in the public conclusions. You have the option of suspecting me because of that, but it will not change the townread I have on you.
In post 220, clidd wrote:I am inclined to think that Lion and Pear do not share the same alignment for VCA issues.
Can you explain to me why you do not think we can both be town
I would have to be wrong in one of my townreads for you two to be town, simultaneously.
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:15 pm
by Pearofclubs
UNVOTE: Mujie
This vote definitely doesn't feel right anymore. He's been doing a lot of good scumhunting and, rather pointedly, not wagoning. I haven't really felt like he's the scummiest here in quite a while, so.
Also, I genuinely apologize for being so absent today. Had to basically move out this weekend for work in another city. Didn't really expect them to be open so soon.
I'll post more after I have a chance to
properly
read everything I just skimmed through. Probably tomorrow
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:28 pm
by midwaybear
In post 244, SJReaver wrote:Midway, I'm going to remind you that the role of a townie is to try to uncover scum. Not letting Ydassa post once before rushing to her defense lessens the value of my engaging her.
My bad. It was more of an attack on you than a defense on her though. I thought you were gaping at straws in your argument.
In post 247, mujie wrote:So, if when Beeboy eventually replies, he says something that might incriminate SJ.
What do you mean by this?
In post 247, mujie wrote:That said, originally my thinking was that Beeboy was SJ's mafia buddy, but if that were the case, why would he vote with SJ. In that case, voting with his partner's choice would be the worst thing you could possibly do.
I agree that this would be awfully unlikely because it sort of attracts attention to both of them. It's a bold move for sure.
In post 253, Pearofclubs wrote:He's been doing a lot of good scumhunting and, rather pointedly, not wagoning.
I agree that he does seem like he is trying to solve the game, but I don't think "not wagoning" is a trait of town.
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:54 pm
by Ydrasse
In post 240, GuiltyLion wrote:Ydrasse are you still feeling Pearofclubs as scum? I kinda townread their replies to our votes and I think midway stands out as more scummy now
eh, if i'm being honest the first time i read through the response from pear i wasn't thinking much of it, not enough to change my vote. i think i was probably being harsh in my perspective on it and i can understand where pear is coming from as a newer player. it's the sort of thing again where if it's clearly not just like, someone trying to get their bearings and a scummy flipflopping around it'll probably be clearer later down the line. i think the unvote in 253 lines up with pear's previous posts too.
In post 232, midwaybear wrote:
This isn't really true because she is townread by some people. It sorta reads to me like you are making up reasons to scumread her.
She hasn't given me any good reasons. What do you expect me to do?
Midway, I'm going to remind you that the role of a townie is to try to uncover scum. Not letting Ydassa post once before rushing to her defense lessens the value of my engaging her.
In post 234, Ydrasse wrote:
this is the second time that you've referred to me as deflecting attention away from myself, the first being in 46. is there any post(s) in particular that have made you feel this way? because i would say that while i am perhaps non-contentious in the sense i am not aggressive about my pushes, i've been making the efforts to do so; mujie, while being closer to the start of the game being one and a vote on pearofclubs being another.
it might just be that this is my playstyle, and that i'm not a particularly Loud voice at times. i offer my input where i feel it works, push where i need to, blah blah. i'm not really worried about changing it up for the sake of being more ~memorable though.
midway is right though that it's a bit of a sweeping statement to say i'm null to everyone. i'm generally in the lower rungs of town reads i'd say which... is pretty average to how i'm considered in all the games i've played so far.
Man, trying to read you is like trying to box with tofu. How do you do that?
In post 235, Ydrasse wrote:also, clidd, why haven't you voted yet...? you have suspicions but you've yet to really apply pressure to anyone yet beyond questioning and reading through people. i'd say that you having a a scumpool of two to work through right now would probably benefit from voting one of them.
I have a mental vote on Lion, as mentioned in post 195.
okay, but... why not make it a physical vote? i've read now your thoughts on the three wagons going on, and i don't know if that's what keeps you from putting down a vote, but it makes it harder to figure out where your head is at from a quick glance. saying you have a mental vote is cool, but it's not the same pressure as your real vote.
like, if you wanna sort between lion/pear i'd expecting something more than the "yeah, i'm there in spirit" move when there's, fmpov, no risk of a hammer coming out of nowhere from it without it being a dumb move by scum.
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:13 pm
by Ydrasse
i don't like any of the current wagons going on but i also don't like my vote on pear right now. nnn.
can the two replacement slots please post more let me experiment on your brains.
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:16 pm
by clidd
Eh..
Smoene is typing.. I'm here.
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:22 pm
by clidd
I prefer mental vots instead of physical votes before I'm sure of my conclusions.
As I have progressed in analysis of ISO on Pear, compared to the meta I am pursuing on Lion, my mind is considering Peer>Lion in the vote priority, instead of Lion>Peer. But I haven't even read a 237 particle yet from zLiom.
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:25 pm
by clidd
I will probably complete and review th reads tomorrow, depending on my energy.
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:28 pm
by Ydrasse
i shall offer a humble suggestion of rest before these isos. quality control!
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:36 am
by clidd
In post 260, clidd wrote:I prefer mental vots instead of physical votes before I'm sure of my conclusions.
As I have progressed in analysis of ISO on Pear, compared to the meta I am pursuing on Lion, my mind is considering Peer>Lion in the vote priority, instead of Lion>Peer. But I haven't even read a 237 particle yet from zLiom.
In post 262, Ydrasse wrote:i shall offer a humble suggestion of rest before these isos. quality control!
Thanks, Miss.
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:20 am
by SJReaver
We could always hang GuiltyLion today and then hang Pear tomorrow if that doesn't work out.
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:37 am
by midwaybear
How are you so sure that it's w/v? This seems sort of opportunistic, and I'm not sure I understand clidd's logic about it.
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:38 am
by GuiltyLion
In post 252, clidd wrote:I would have to be wrong in one of my townreads for you two to be town, simultaneously.
Not really?
I agree with you that I think SJReaver, mujie, Ydrasse are town.
If both Pear and I are town that leaves a pool of {beeboy, midwaybear, Walter}
it's not really that hard to imagine a scumteam in those three? Like yeah, from an objective standpoint that's unlikely and requires us to be accurate in our reads, but I don't see why you'd rule it out in order to conclude one of Pear/myself HAS to be scum. It feels pretty reachy and based on questionable VCA assumptions.
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:39 am
by GuiltyLion
In post 253, Pearofclubs wrote:UNVOTE: Mujie
This vote definitely doesn't feel right anymore. He's been doing a lot of good scumhunting and, rather pointedly, not wagoning. I haven't really felt like he's the scummiest here in quite a while, so.
Also, I genuinely apologize for being so absent today. Had to basically move out this weekend for work in another city. Didn't really expect them to be open so soon.
I'll post more after I have a chance to
properly
read everything I just skimmed through. Probably tomorrow
You should make sure to vote once you've properly read everything, unvoting and not voting on a different wagon denies information or pressure anywhere and is anti-town
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:40 am
by GuiltyLion
In post 258, Ydrasse wrote:i don't like any of the current wagons going on but i also don't like my vote on pear right now. nnn.
can the two replacement slots please post more let me experiment on your brains.
vote midway!!
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:42 am
by GuiltyLion
In post 218, WaltertheDunce10 wrote:prob Town
Sjreaver Seems towny but focused on scumhunting. I agree that scum would not most likely have been so bold in their first post.
clidd
GL
Nuetral
Ydrasse leans town
Mujie
Pear
Poss scum
Beeboy Need to see more and left vote with weak explanation.
Midway
@Walter
in our last game together, you had no problem using your vote throughout the game. So I don't understand why you haven't voted anyone yet. Why aren't you voting Midway with me if he's your top scum read?
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:56 am
by WaltertheDunce10
I am trying to be more patient on my votes since my initial reads last game were so off.
I feel like beeboy could be a mini situation like last game VOTE: Midwaybear
I am aware of the fact that this seems scummy to only vote after Gl asks but midway is appearing enough now to be a vote.
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:06 am
by WaltertheDunce10
Scummy enough
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:18 am
by midwaybear
Walter, what have I done that is scummy? I already explained why GuiltyLion's reasoning is wrong.
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:11 am
by SJReaver
In post 266, midwaybear wrote:How are you so sure that it's w/v? This seems sort of opportunistic, and I'm not sure I understand clidd's logic about it.
