Mini 1468: Legends of the Hidden Temple- Game Over!

[SeraphicMirth]

lol please keep in mind I haven't played in 5-ish years? I think it would be near useless to meta me. Also....meta is ridiculous stupid. So bogged down by that skimming through. I really don't care how people "usually" play, etc. Don't even try to convince me of anything with arguments like that. Blech. Still catching up.

I am likely not going to have in-depth thoughts when I come out of this, though I will give good consideration and pay more attention to recent game stuff when I go to vote. Skimming 100 pages is terrible...just terrible. Especially now that I have a life with responsibilities.. I am a little sorry I agreed to do this...:-/ lol Trying to be quick, it seems the hang up is on Enomis/me... I am trying to read backward and forward.

Also, my question about the vibe/who is suspect/etc. was harmless. Just wanted to see how/what people chose to summarize (more than the answer), if at all. Seems the response is: let's jump on this innocuous question quickly, twist it, and get another townie out of the way ASAP and easily. Though if you are all convinced Enomis is/I am scum then that makes sense too.

I am quite curious why my position is pegged as scum and who agrees with that and why, subsequently, I am not in the challenge pool then - but maybe some of that will be answered myself as I catch up. I guess we're already in challenge/vote phase of things right now though, so we can talk about me/Enomis later.

Hope to be able to contribute to current events in a bit!

[qwints]

First, thanks for replacing in. This was a tough game to catch up when I replaced on page 62, and it's only gotten more convoluted. Combine that with the previous player in your slot refusing to take any stands and posting only when heavily pressed, and I imagine the mod had a nigh-impossible task. This game will take more work for less fun than most you could have joined, and you replacing in helps us prevent wasting the ton of time we've all put into this game. We're not up against a deadline, so you've got the time to try and re-read the game. While that has no bearing on alignment, it's worth mentioning.

Now, you haven't improved the slot at all in the little bit you've done so far. That's also one of the easiest times for scum to screw up, which is why you're getting this pressure. You asked for reads before giving any (scummy), then tried to walk it back (scummy). In addition, rather than asking for particularly important events that require deeper analysis, you asked for the "main people under suspicion." It's certainly possible that this is something a player always does, regardless of alignment, but you never did it in the past as town. I've had a long hiatus as well, and when I came back I relied heavily on my old ways of playing at first. You also think that somebody putting pressure on you comes off scummy. You literally can't be lynched today, which you know, so there's no reason to worry about the relatively light pressure you've had.

[Venmar]

My god, Qwints can you be anymore town? Fuck.

I officially am not a fan of mountainous games...

[Majiffy]

namely only mollie

Lol'd.

Replacement please lynch Elyse.

[Venmar]

Replacement please lynch Grim

[Venmar]

Omg there's still 3 scum left alive? Geeze.

[SeraphicMirth]

Grim & Elyse - who do you think should I vote for? I see you rest on Qwint at the moment, would this be your suggestion?

(still reading....almost there..)

[Elyse]

Vote for Grim.

[SeraphicMirth]

Alright...now that I want to rip my eyeballs out...here are my notes. They are probably very disorganized and might not make sense. I just jotted stuff down as I went along, all my random thoughts that came to mind. Most are from the more recent parts of the game - there was really not much to note from the large first part of the game...lots of bickering. Fun...

What is PoE? I'm not up on all the acronymns as it has been so long since I've played.

Wis- I think maybe just poor judgement town
Venmar Town

GrimGroove Town?? I like Grim's post style..need to be skeptical of myself b/c of that. #1790: changed my mind-->scum?? Elyse and Grim both scum?? Thinks Amrun will be lynched --> says amrun-elyse-qwints/AP combo but says "if" amrun is town (grim-scum = knows this) then it's majiffy-enomis-qwints/AP. This means that likely majiffy-enomis (me, town)-qwints/AP are town or mostly town (grim = setting up thought that they are scum). Seems like a way to protect Elyse since there was no danger of amrun turning up scum (from grim's pov if grim is scum). Grim #1999 covering ass?

Scum: NS*conf-grim-elyse-4th?? AP/Mollie? Wis??

Hmm #1987 Elyse puts Grim on scumteam...#2010-20's ish Elyse suspects Grim so maybe not together on my idea of scumteam. Or maybe yes scumteam, obvious Amrun is going to be lynched..Elyse/Grim= fake fight?
Elyse pushes enomis - easy target, doesn't post much.
Grim proposes elyse-qwints-self challenge pool ...elyse and grim = voting qwints. Seem opposing before, somehow come together on qwints

lots of pointing at qwints by grim and elyse -- qwints replaced = easy target? scum tactic?

Wisdom #2129 - yep...something's weird.

Grim late #2130's.. really turning against Elyse. Not sure about Grim-Elyse now. Hmmf.
#2172 - says Elyse
really subtle partnering? Or maybe I am crazy. Or maybe it's just Elyse and Grim is town? agh.
Comes down hard on qwints RE: "surface" not scumhunting, etc. I think qwints is just replacing in a shitty game like I am.

Mollie - scum?? Only replies when directly provoked, made some comment about losing interest in playing scum lately. Not helping out the town at the least.
Elyse- scum?
majiffy- ?? town? wildcard. I like it.
AP- scum? <--- defends NS, pushes Amrun (town) vote, #965 - NS not strong read, "scummy as balls", then says NS = "apathetic town", but still would vote...seems like covering own ass. Not sure. Other posts seem town-driven.


Grim - Points out two more mislynches left. General pro-town action. Calculated or true??
Back and forth on Elyse - picks at her then says town.
I dunno..gut says Elyse-Grim scum pair..why??
Maybe Elyse is the scum and Grim is just waffling around a bit.
Answer to my question: Elyse says vote for Grim.

#2337 - WOW Elyse has it out for enomis. All I can think is easy target! Hasn't been around much, shitty posts, easy to pick apart. Majorly pushing the Enomis idea more than others - may eventually be fairly easy to get others to vote Enomis (me) when challenged. Posts to me "universally scum" though the only one strongly posulating Enomis slot is scum is her.
If I vote Grim = Grim is town, Elyse will be able to go after me/enomis. hmm. nope.
Wisdom also leans strong Enomis. Is currently on Grim-vote.

Leaning Elyse vote. With a Wisdom misled by Elyse.

Note for later: Majiffy wants eno (now me) to hammer elyse. Evaluate with outcome.
--

That's my notes. In this type of situation, I'm going gut/vibes/instincts. I do not possibly have the energy to logically hash everything out in a game this big.

Also, Qwints, I would like to reply to your points at some point. I see what you're saying for most of it but I also disagree/have different interpretations. Especially about the whole meta thing..other games I replaced into were day 1 or 2 lol So..maybe after the vote phase or whatever I'll post my reply. Prefer to stick to topic at hand unless we think my credibility needs to be hashed out/is warranted.

OK so tl;dr - I'm leaning Elyse vote.

[Elyse]

Why? Because I think you're scum? Reread the last three pages or so because I explained my vote for Grim and you can see his terrible waffling.

Oh wait you both are scum nvm.

Your "notes" don't make sense at all.

If you hammer me just know you'll be getting rope tomorrow when I flip town.

[SeraphicMirth]

Yeah they probably don't. And yes, partially because you think I am scum so hard. I know he/I am town so that makes points against you in my mind. I don't think your arguments against me/him are solid at all and you keep pushing it.
And partially on this Elyse-Grim thing I had seen toward the start. That may be an error and I'm basically going off that, as I look back over my notes. At first I thought you were a scum team but now it just kind of seems more like you're scum and Grim town-waffles.

Um...also I just realized you moved your vote off of Qwints and onto Grim. Somehow I missed that. And the part where Grim changed his vote. >.< I just skipped to the VC on that page I guess.

RE: if you flip town, I'm rope. I know. I am in a difficult position because I just started, I kind of suck at mafia in general much less in the middle of this type of game, and it's very hard to tell who is what and I know if I vote town I'm basically done for. But I have to make a decision at some point. So...yeah. I'll save my vote a little bit, see what others say if they can parse my notes at all. Or if not...just...arguments for/against whoever. I dunno.

[SeraphicMirth]

Ugh. Sorry about my notes all. They are really shitty. :-/ It's just too much info for me to do anything logical with. As I said, just have to go off of gut. Which sucks because I'm telling Elyse that I think her arguments against me aren't solid and I don't have solid things to back up my vote. I dunno what to say. It is just where I'm at right now with it. *shrug*

[qwints]

POE is process of elimination.

Mod, could we get prods on Mollie and AP?

[Majiffy]

tl;dr most of this page, mostly because I'm drunk.

I'll try to get Mollie in before the prod.

[SeraphicMirth]

Ok now tht I've had some time to sleep on it.. I had originally put Elyse on my scum list because I was thinking that Grim was scum also and protecting her and then by the end somehow I got to Elyse is scum and Grim is town. I need to ISO them I think and go back again an re read the last several pages. I have to really consider this carefully because I am an easy next lynch and if I/we mislynch this one then we're SOL. Succinct input on why one or the other should go would be helpful.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Mod, could we get prods on Mollie and AP?

Consider it done.

[AngryPidgeon]

Prod received. Sorry guys, Im just slightly burned out and trying to focus on work.

Im entertaining voting GG to speed things along. I think hes got about the same shot of flipping maf as Elyse after all that "hey look whats in my QT, this is totally not for towncred" nonsense.

I'll be back after work.

@Sera: Why do YOU find either/both of them scummy?

[SeraphicMirth]

I have to go through and look at them again. I am focusing on them since they are the options in the pool. Qwints is also an option but he reads as town to me pretty clearly and his predecessor did not contribute much. I feel like energies against Qwints are just because a replacement is an easy lynch, particularly when the one before them was weak in participation. Plus, the votes are split between Elyse and Grim ATM so by default I have to figure out which is scum for the game to go forward. That's why my notes kind of focus on them and points where they may be town or scum. The challenging thing is interesting...what if we just have all town up there? :-/
Anywho...it is what it is. So yeah I will go over them in more detail again today and really answer your question.

[AngryPidgeon]

Qwints is also an option but he reads as town to me pretty clearly and his predecessor did not contribute much

Then why is he an option other than the obvious fact hes up for lynch >.>

[AngryPidgeon]

I have to figure out which is scum

How do you know either of them are scum? HOw much have you read at this point?

[qwints]

The challenging thing is interesting...what if we just have all town up there? :-/

How likely do you think that is?

[Haschel Cedricson]

The pool of players eligible to be lynched today consists of:

Grimgroove

Elyse
qwints

Here are the current votes:

Elyse (4) - Majiffy, AngryPidgeon, pirate mollie, Grimgroove
Grimgroove(4) - qwints, Venmar, Wisdom, Elyse
qwints(0) -

Not Voting (1) - SeraphicMirth

With 9 players alive, it will take 5 votes to lynch.

[SeraphicMirth]

Qwints is also an option but he reads as town to me pretty clearly and his predecessor did not contribute much

Then why is he an option other than the obvious fact hes up for lynch >.>

He's....not? I made it pretty clear the sentence before "I am focusing on Grim and Elyse because they are options in the pool". Then clarified that I realize that Qwints is also an option (because he, too is in the lynch pool). I only meant that those are the three in the pool, thus who I have to look at. Then I went on to talk about why I am NOT focusing on him because I don't ACTUALLY think he's an option. If I hadn't have said that, someone would have been like "uh bluh why aren't you considering Qwints? Those two aren't the only options, there's a third person in the lynch pool."

How do you know either of them are scum? HOw much have you read at this point?

I don't...I think I was kind of saying that in my post. The whole point of what I was saying is that these two are who the votes are up for at this point in time and as we can only vote for the three in the pool (one of which I already decided I don't really see a reason to vote for), then I will have to figure out which one to vote for. I would hope that I am voting for scum, hence "I have to figure out which is scum" (or, if I need to be this precise, which one is scummier). Of course, I can't be sure - also why very shortly after that I talked about the possibility of all 3 being town..because who knows?? So, yes, I do not know if either of them are scum. I am pretty sure I made that clear. And, really, no one "knows" who is scum except scum so I couldn't answer that. Just have to do the best I can. To answer your other question: I read all of the pages in one day (yesterday) over multiple sittings. TBH, I skimmed heavily. I came in with full expectations of caring and giving this my all and the first 20 or so pages killed my soul.


Re-reading on Grim, some notes. Be aware, I am reading as if he is scum:
Grim -- I find it interesting that he voted on his partner who turned out to be town. I'm sure this was brought up and hashed out somewhere in the middle. The original premise for this vote was that StrangerCoug was "bland". Okay. Then that whole QT thing happened, which Grim said was a mistake but Grim does seem quite clever and in ISO it seems very well set up to make it look like Coug meant one thing and not another. I think Wis had a great line of questioning about that on Grim and Grim still got away with it. Then "oops I look dumb" afterwards. Can't tell if it's all contrived or real. After that error in lynching his own partner (..just had this thought: if Grim is scum and then would know Coug was not, so off Coug early so that there is less QT interaction to give Grim away??), he then originally defends NS, then gives some prompts to his scum buddy (??) like "oh hey, if he shows up and says something good, I'll reconsider him" like "dude, come get yourself off the hook, let me defend you", even says "last words are in order" at L-1. But I can see him not having an issue voting NS who was marginally participatory and would look good to cover up the "oops" vote on Coug. Then Grim ends up saying he has a "firm scumread" on the Amrun vote, lynching town.
In both town lynching scenarios, Grim espouses some sort of statements like "I will be proven right, when they flip scum! If not, go ahead and lynch me!" Well...maybe we shall.
Also, Grim urged Enomis to hammer Amrun after some people had made it clear he was suspect. So, that would make a great set up for an argument against Enomis/me.

Would like some response to this from Grim or anyone else that has thoughts. I can see Grim as scum, but again...read it that way. I kind of hate mafia because everything is usually circumstantial and you can't prove anything...lol so I dunno. Just what I see at this point.

Going to read ISO on Elyse now.

Also - question for all: is there anyone who DOESN'T think enomis is scum (prior to my replacing)? Even just null? Just trying to see if there's a scum pattern/association around that as well. If it is truly "universal" then it doesn't help me see any sort of pattern that way but thought I'd ask.

p.s. I DON'T WANNA BE THE TIE BREAKER!!! This is a bad deal, yo.

[SeraphicMirth]

In both town lynching scenarios, Grim espouses some sort of statements like "I will be proven right, when they flip scum! If not, go ahead and lynch me!" Well...maybe we shall.

Strike that. I wrote that and had the intention to double check. So I just did. In the first one, he was actually saying it about something very specific -> if Coug had said he didn't say the thing in the QT. So...nevermind that whole point.

[Wisdom]

Grimgroove lately said that he does not like how we all think enomis is scum, and that it might be wrong.
Don't think anyone else has said anything good about your slot lately.