In post 2496, Reasonably Rational wrote:@Chara: Is there any reason why scum!you, upon making a fake miller claim and being placed at risk of exposure, wouldn't behave the exact way you did in this game?
-Cerb
there's no reason! that's why i was confused about all of the townreads i got for it.
and in particular beeboy's "this wasn't the scum response i was looking for", which he still needs to elaborate on.
So let's move to the universe where you *do* gain scumreads from that gambit.
What do you do when you have just under half the game gunning for you, and unwilling to trust you? What's the town benefit?
-Cerb
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:50 am
by OnTheMark
I just feel like this is a big waste of time. I do not see this going well.
if i was scum, it certainly would have been. i'm trying to improve my scumplay, though. the reason i'm bad as scum is because i can't give off that towny Chara vibe. and also i get too self-conscious and cautious.
though, throwing caution to the wind and doing something unbelievably stupid would be a pretty good way to get players like Almost, Maki, and Alisae to locktown me. (though Alisae wasn't here to start.)
pedit: sorry, Math. i would refuse to answer but i wanted to help Drixx out.
the biggest slot i want to talk about right now is baku and munna, but they haven't posted for a while and i'm waiting on that.
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:51 am
by Reasonably Rational
What? We spent like 2 posts on mechanics, and the rest of the time has been us exploring the Chara situation.
...
-Cerb
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:53 am
by OnTheMark
In post 2503, Reasonably Rational wrote:What? We spent like 2 posts on mechanics, and the rest of the time has been us exploring the Chara situation.
...
-Cerb
Drizzle has spent nearly all of his posts on Chara’s Miller claim which is mechanics.
Chara is town.
Move on. Chara is universally townread and not even close to being considered and if Chara was that would be silly.
In post 2503, Reasonably Rational wrote:What? We spent like 2 posts on mechanics, and the rest of the time has been us exploring the Chara situation.
...
-Cerb
Drixx has spent nearly all of his posts on Chara’s Miller claim which is mechanics.
Chara is town.
Move on. Chara is universally townread and not even close to being considered and if Chara was that would be silly.
Pedit sorry Drixx my phone now calls you Drizzle
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:55 am
by Reasonably Rational
In post 2501, OnTheMark wrote:I just feel like this is a big waste of time. I do not see this going well.
VOTE: Unvote
That being said I am unvoting RR.
I do not trust you. Others do.
At this point no one is willing to discuss reads.
This mechanics stuff is stopping hunting.
I wish I could explain how it needs to stop.
Do you believe that SS is scum with us?
Because we pretty explicitly laid out our entire claim and invited him to lie detect it. That by itself should indicate to you that it's a true statement, and our claim is completely accurate. Including the questions we've asked. Though now that I think about it, having the fact that we've asked a question about scum factional abilities in there confirms we're town, doesn't it? So that means Varsoon probably won't actually be willing to lie detect that.
@SS:Before you lie detect that, please confirm with Varsoon that you can. If you can't, I'll gladly make another statement removing that part.
In post 2503, Reasonably Rational wrote:What? We spent like 2 posts on mechanics, and the rest of the time has been us exploring the Chara situation.
...
-Cerb
Drizzle has spent nearly all of his posts on Chara’s Miller claim which is mechanics.
Chara is town.
Move on. Chara is universally townread and not even close to being considered and if Chara was that would be silly.
...
No.
It's not mechanics.
If they were ACTUALLY a miller it would be mechanics.
They're not.
So it's a PLAY THEY MADE.
It's THEIR BEHAVIOR that we're examining.
-Cerb
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:57 am
by Chara
In post 2499, Reasonably Rational wrote:I mean ... you didn't give any of the anticipated responses I expected if you were scum. Not anything that makes me think town but also none of the things I thought of that would reinforce a scum read. As always, you are difficult to read early. Probably need to make the creature rule the Creature and Chara rule ;p
What do you do when you have just under half the game gunning for you, and unwilling to trust you? What's the town benefit?
-Cerb
hm. i have the answer to this one but it's a little awkward. i don't think i need to be trusted to do well, i suppose. there've been times i've purposely lead because i thought we would lose without my doing so (Purgatory), but for the most part i don't think it's a good idea for me to lead as i rarely have good scumreads i can reliably push or need to be followed on. there's more to it than just this, and i actually said so plainly earlier (i imagine you missed it because i was lying left and right up until the miller retraction), but i'd rather not be explicit.
i'm being open now because i reconsidered and thought it'd hurt your attempts to solve this game if you couldn't see a probable universe where i was town.
pedit: i agree, i'm being cooperative because i think this is important!
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:57 am
by Reasonably Rational
or every 48 hours that pass during the Day phase, we may guess about any non-public aspect of this setup.
We are informed if we are correct in our guess.
All guesses must be declaring that something is extant in the setup.
We may not guess about player-specific information (alignment, role, actions, etc.).
We may not guess about the same aspect of the setup twice in one Day phase.
No effect in the game will interfere with the accuracy of the mod's response to our guesses.
We have made 3 guesses so far.
The first was that there exists a means by which players can gain access to more mana than just that which their role card gives them access to. That guess was correct.
The second was that there exists a Sparkbearer role which investigates as The End in this game. That was incorrect.
-Cerb
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:58 am
by OnTheMark
No. I do not.
However as scum you can easily tell the truth to suit a nefarious purpose or be some kind of ascetic or immune to lie detection. Or you can ask inane questions and pretend they came before. An example is with Chara. If Drixx asked the question before Chara rescinded why didn’t he post? Secondly you could have asked that question as scum for the cred.
The only thing a lie detect does if SS is town is confirm the information. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:59 am
by Reasonably Rational
^
Backup lie detect post, because I think my first one was actually AI and wouldn't work.
@Chara: Response noted. Hydra discussion must occur.
However as scum you can easily tell the truth to suit a nefarious purpose or be some kind of ascetic or immune to lie detection. Or you can ask inane questions and pretend they came before. An example is with Chara. If Drixx asked the question before Chara rescinded why didn’t he post? Secondly you could have asked that question as scum for the cred.
The only thing a lie detect does if SS is town is confirm the information. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Do you want me to rewrite the lie detection post with the exact time that each question was asked and answered? I can do that.
And we didn't post because every time we catch scum, we wait until the absolute last moment to let everyone else know. We drag it out, and eke every last bit of information from them that we can. If we guilty someone, nobody gets to know we guiltied them until someone else is at L-1 the next day.
-Cerb
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:09 pm
by OnTheMark
That won’t help.
:/
I feel like every time I ask a question you intentionally answer a different one or say something I didn’t ask.
I am just going to go.
Talking with you I feel is fruitless.
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:27 pm
by Reasonably Rational
What question did you ask that I didn't answer? If I'm misunderstanding something, please tell me so I can get you the answer to the question you asked.
-Cerb
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:58 pm
by Reasonably Rational
Oh, I get what you're asking. Drixx didn't ask any of the questions so far. I pinged him to ask if he thought it was an okay use of a question, and he said yes, so I asked.
In post 2458, Reasonably Rational wrote:Anyways, the part where you guys get involved is..........what do we ask next??? We have a question waiting to be used!
We have already asked questions about "Scum Factional Abilities", "Roles in the game", and "Mana Generation"
can you ask about scum involvement with plane selection, or do we already know they're responsible?
Check the OP
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:22 pm
by Bronya Zaychik
RR, is there a way to determine if scum have an accessable double vote d1 without copying another's role? I'd love to sort the multple vote player without outing them. If we can prove they are town, then we can force scum to attack the cards and have an effective IC for later.
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:33 pm
by Reasonably Rational
In post 2518, Bronya Zaychik wrote:RR, is there a way to determine if scum have an accessable double vote d1 without copying another's role? I'd love to sort the multple vote player without outing them. If we can prove they are town, then we can force scum to attack the cards and have an effective IC for later.
We can't ask something that indicates alignment. So ... it was okay to guess about a miller (with the exact phrasing I put in quotation marks earlier), but guessing that scum have a double voter would be a little too specific. I think we
might
get away with guessing that the scum team has access to abilities which impact voting, but even that might be too close to an alignment check. Will play around with wording with Cerb and see if we can wrangle it into an acceptable question, but since it's role related, I'm not sure we can ask it today (unless we can successfully argue that the question is actually about vote mechanics ...).
~D
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:36 pm
by Purple Heart
UNVOTE:
I want to see
Micc's
replacement post if he truly can't contribute to the game anymore.
Not all of this is in order, but most of it.
Though, Top 3 reads are the only reads I can say I'm pretty confident in and they're town. So yay.
Also, I haven't done in depth ISOs yet, and I'm scared too because there's just so much filler in this game and multiple players with over 200 posts... So some of these reads are based a bit off gut.
Readslist
Spoiler: Town
Town
Reasonably Rational
- I've been waffling on
Cerb
for a while, because we have similar mindsets but different approaches to this game and playstyle is NAI. However, such a detailed and investigative claim like in 2455 would've never benefited scum. Coupled with 2466 and 2467 which I really liked, makes this a solid townread. Widely-agreed reads often skew perception in the game, and scum wouldn't try and take away from townreads. Also, their reasons for prolonging the day makes sense here, since it aligns perfectly with giving information to them, where they can rely it to the town.
Skybird
- I'll still need to ISO more, but nothing particularly strikes me as off. I've already stated this before, but her outing the neighborhood with
Iconeum
and
Shining Dreamers
screams town to me.
If she were scum and those were her buddies;
then outing her team would be playing directly against her wincon.
If she were scum that was apart of that hood,
then outing would've done nothing but shift more focus onto her, plus, assuming scum have daytalk; she'd probably have told them privately.
She willfully noted interactions and potential associations for later review while stating her opinion of those she was hooded with. 2199
OnTheMark
- Most of his game has been overanalyzing mostly common knowledge facts or new ideas. His game-solving mode and sense of genuine feeling I get from his posts make him a stronger townread. Still, I don't want to sort him out D1. He appears to play the game by thinking up many theories, and I cannot see scum falsely fabricating them.
Almost50
1337 and 2145 - while those full readslists aren't much explained, skimming and rereading a bit of Almost50's post strike me as though he's hunting and gauging for information. That's more than what I can say with the majority of the playerlist.
Almost50
; what do you think about
Skybird
outing the hood, and the
Shining Dreamers
wagon?
Bronya Zaychik
- They've been consistently trying to keep town on the same page, expressing their reads and thoughts on wagons. While I'm going to read them a bit more in depth later, my gut tells me they are genuine, and I haven't seen something that tells me otherwise. 2102 and 2294 are some examples here.
Maid Cafe
- Is there a post or discussion point where one of them hasn't placed their thought or questioned something? Very vocal. Points out inconsistencies in others' reasoning and has been straightforward with their reads and opinions.
Chara
- Honestly, part of me still townreads
Chara's
fakeclaim in 888. I don't see scum claiming Miller and thinking that's ever a good idea... I've been Miller once, and the amount of times I was wagoned, scumread, and discredited was unbelievable... That slot was mislynched in that game, after I replaced out because of life stuff.
However,
Chara
will have to link me all his town games before I believe the fact he's never been mislynched.
I don't know what to feel about him retracting because of scumreads, but my gut tells me this can come from town as well.
((His posts Page 99-100))
...I've been mislynched. A lot. Specifically in Mylo/Lylo. So I relate his pushback and confusion to the reads. If this was some form of scum AtE trick, it's working. Right now, I'm not interested in pushing
Chara
much.
Spoiler: Neutral
Neutral
Gamma Emerald
- Wishy-washy here. Nothing has struck out to me as fully towny or scummy, and my read here is not very confident. Though, he's the most town-esque nullread, I think. He's engaged with me more than the others in this category.
Creature
- He's been meta-read this whole game and after some thought, it's annoying AF. Literally, I've never played with half of you people before; if you come at me with a meta-read argument, good luck convincing me.
Just like what I've seen him in other games, he just posts one-liners and multiple posts at once. If someone wants to tell me how his activity is AI, then
LINK GAMES
. So far, he's null.
Snarky Snowman
- Who? I'm waiting for him to get caught up.
Iconeum
- Partially waiting for more content by
Skybird
and
Shining Dreamers
to help me see his POV in this game. I think he's been making some pushes, and I don't quite get the suspicion on him? I want someone to elaborate their reads on him more. Aside from this, I haven't seen much to indicate much town or scum motivation.
Venmar
- He's pushing for progression, but he hasn't really done much of any push himself or showed a lot of independent reasoning. I'm going to ISO him soon.
Spoiler: Scum
Scum
Dunnstral
- 12 posts in 100 pages. His ISO is dull. He's been here since the beginning of the game though, to my understanding.
1)
What is your reads?
2)
Are you fully caught up?
3)
Thoughts on wagons at the moment?
Baku and Munna
- 281 Townlean because of shitposting? .__. I don't like that this slot is painting game stuff as OMGUS. 12221940 - Hasn't given much content or reasons for their thoughts. This is not a confident read, though.
Micc
- ISO
Alisae's
individual posting and this hydra's. If you want a further elaboration, then ask. However, I want to see where people are townreading him.
Shining Dreamers
- ISO
Alisae's
individual posting and this hydra's. If you want further elaboration, then ask. I want to see people's grievances with the wagon here, though.
I dislike having weak general scumreads, this readslist is liable to change very soon, but my most reasoned-for reads are my most confident.
~ Taly
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:54 pm
by OnTheMark
See I think I finally realized why I am having a hard time with RR read on the drive home.
I feel like to excuse the analogy RR is kinda like an infomercial. Like he’s saying things in order for me to buy into him being town.
Like here have a lie detect check. So? He could have known that was in the game before hand. Furthermore even if that stemmed is the truth it doesn’t make it not premeditated on his part.
Like for a buy it now ad on TV. They have testimonials and show the product off. Like “look at all these customers satisfied by the Snuggie. It can’t be wrong.” That’s what I feel RR is doing. I just don’t know how to explain a feeling.
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:55 pm
by Gamma Emerald
Taly just ask Alisae for the Creature meta she's woke to it as well.
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:56 pm
by OnTheMark
And Taly Skybird did not out the hood. Skybird confirmed it.
Any competent scum would tell Skybird to do that for cred. The outing imho is NAI at best and scummy at worst.
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:58 pm
by OnTheMark
The information would be outed anyway. A good scum gets out in front of it.
I would have been much more impressed if she did it immediately after.
What question did you ask that I didn't answer? If I'm misunderstanding something, please tell me so I can get you the answer to the question you asked.