I didn't miss it. Just because you lampshade something doesn't change what it is. It's still a lot of effort put into something that's not super helpful, but people might write off as a town tell anyway because of the effort put into it.In post 2499, mastina wrote:Um, yes? I was pretty explicit about this? How'd you miss all the labels of "trash-tier", "garbage VCA", and the like where I rather bluntly said it was shit?
For the record.In post 2500, Dannflor wrote:oh yea I wanted to ask rlly quick
do I need to claim? my slot is at L-2? rnow but idk what the protocol is for games of this size
If you are still in hammer range of Jingle on Tuesday night, I would claim. I would not claim before Tuesday unless someone else puts you to L-1.In post 2500, Dannflor wrote:oh yea I wanted to ask rlly quick
do I need to claim? my slot is at L-2? rnow but idk what the protocol is for games of this size
Right the triple voter, I'll keep that in mind.In post 2504, Wagonomics wrote:If you are still in hammer range of Jingle on Tuesday night, I would claim. I would not claim before Tuesday unless someone else puts you to L-1.
Dann can you talk a little bit about how you read a game of this length as a replace in? Do you read the whole thread straight through, go iso by iso, or what? You mentioned your notes, so if you could talk a little bit about them that would help too. Like even basic stuff--do you just use notepad or what?
What.In post 2502, Dannflor wrote:I didn't miss it. Just because you lampshade something doesn't change what it is. It's still a lot of effort put into something that's not super helpful, but people might write off as a town tell anyway because of the effort put into it.In post 2499, mastina wrote:Um, yes? I was pretty explicit about this? How'd you miss all the labels of "trash-tier", "garbage VCA", and the like where I rather bluntly said it was shit?
...Because of the reasons I fucking said already? Because:In post 2502, Dannflor wrote:You're continually calling out this situation as being two mislynches but not actually pushing a different lynch because ???
Who said I didn't believe it was? Quite the opposite...In post 2502, Dannflor wrote:with no deadline it just doesn't make sense to be on a wagon you don't actually believe in unless you believe it'll be good for town
In post 2424, mastina wrote:I am townreading Saudade not off of the slot's content--but general thread feelings about the slot compared to Ausuka. There's a term for that, but I can't quite remember it. Essentially, my sense of situational awareness screamed at me, "THE SCUM ARE DIVIDING THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE". And they wouldn't care only if both wagons were a mislynch.
This is why I haven't unvoted. I don't vote townreads that I am townreading off of play, but I'm not townreading Saudade on play. I could always be wrong. My analysis had Saudade as a decent candidate for being scum by play, and that's why I'm staying for now. I am hoping I am wrong. I am hoping that Saudade's slot is scum.
It's just that the circumstances surrounding Saudade vs. Ausuka scream, "the scum don't really care which of these two gets lynched".
^Hint: one of those third axis reads? The scumread on the Saudade slot, now your slot. That read was half-formed almost entirely off of the suspicions of others that felt like it was plausibly correct.In post 2499, mastina wrote:As for general thread feelings, it means precisely that: reading the entirety of players posting and general game atmosphere, everything points to the lynches both being a mislynch. There are players who look town that are pushing one as scum; there are players who look town that are pushing the other as scum; there are players who look town that are trying to push a third player as scum; there are players who look town that have given up on pushing scum; there are players that look scum that are pushing one as scum; there are players that look scum that are pushing the other as scum; there are players who look scum pushing a third as scum; there could be players that are scum who have "given up" on pushing scum (though if so this isn't as obvious); there are players who fit one of these categories that I can't get an alignment read one way or another on.
But all of it points to the same symptoms.
Of two mislynch candidates in the making.
By necessity, that would made the Saudade slot town, because the situation I'm describing wouldn't be the case if we were looking at scum being counterwagoned by town, or vice-versa.
Some of my readsareinfluenced by how others see them--that's my third axis of reading people which I've talked about a bit before (long story short, first axis is "generic behavioral tells"; second axis is "modified behavior SPECIFIC TO THAT PLAYER tells", third is "trust in others")--namely, reads like my sheep townread being in part trusting Nancy who I feel WOULD have the experience to get that read accurate, but most of what I've got here is just looking at what's going on and what "feels" right, and the idea of us lynching scum with our current wagons feels wrong.
Basically my stance couldn't be more clear here.In post 2503, mastina wrote:For the record.In post 2500, Dannflor wrote:oh yea I wanted to ask rlly quick
do I need to claim? my slot is at L-2? rnow but idk what the protocol is for games of this size
The reason I am not unvoting Dannflor is because my read, disregarding my feelings of general game atmosphere, remains unchanged.
Dannflor's content is thoroughly "could be either alignment with a RIDICULOUS amount of ease", with ever so slightest the scumlean to it.
So while by feelings of general game atmosphere he should logically be town, when he posts I'm like, "yeah I'm okay lynching this".
It's not thehappiestlynch (that'd probably be either Xtoxm or singletonking) I'd have, but it's one which I feel isokay.
greatIn post 2510, Enter wrote:mastina is slowly losing towncred.
Pretty sure that's insider trading, but I only have contextual clues on what insider trading is, so I won't tell if you won't?In post 2512, Wagonomics wrote:greatIn post 2510, Enter wrote:mastina is slowly losing towncred.mindsinvestors buy alike?
Apologies, I'm not up to date on my lingo.
Hmm have I made that post yet in this game or will I need to make it and then quote it? Lesse here...In post 2511, Wagonomics wrote:For the record, if mastina continues quoting her own posts to comment on them, I will compromise on an investment on her.
No, not it.In post 2135, mastina wrote:I will be making FULL use of the lack of deadline. I can only read AT MOST 20 pages a day and may not be able to read every single day (for instance, today), but I WILL be able to play at a decent rate, given the requisite time.
No, no, wrong thing I'm going for. That IS a stock phrase to use/quote, but not the one I'm after. Uhh...In post 2313, mastina wrote:I am the greatest scum player of all time and it is impossible to wagon me.In post 2295, Wagonomics wrote:I can't vig mastina until she announces that she is the greatest scum player of all time and that it is impossible to wagon her.
NOW we're in business.In post 2511, Wagonomics wrote:For the record, if mastina continues quoting her own posts to comment on them, I will compromise on an investment on her.
There we go.In post 2516, mastina wrote:I am not aiming to look town; I am aiming to lynch scum. Let my actions do the speaking there.
In post 2490, Purrcocet wrote:In post 2481, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:In post 2477, Purrcocet wrote:maybe if you dont nk me i willI think you’re both town here.In post 2478, Wisdom wrote:i doubt i would nk you if i were scum seeing as nobody listens to your scumread anyway
I just would like 2 die
I just finished a game with scum!sheep and he acted completely different than here but I otherwise like this. post so . . .In post 2498, Dannflor wrote:Hi! UNVOTE: Nancy, because that's not a good vote.
I read (skimming parts) all 100 pages of this damn game in a few hours this afternoon and took notes as I went. No idea what that did to my brain or if I'll survive the brain vomit I'm about to do. I'm gonna try to get it all out there anyways and hopefully the end product is worthwhile.
A reads list? We're doing a reads list. This will not be in order nor can I guarantee that it will display any degree of coherency. I'm gonna color reads for better readability.
The way she gives out town reads especially during D1 does not read scum. In general, she's given me the impression of being one of the more involved solvers this game just based on the way she approaches things and her presence. I've gone back through her ISO more carefully since skimming and nothing sticks out as contrived to me so I'm gonna stick with my gut town read. Additionally, I don't think scum urges Leodanny to claim like she does in post #605. In fact, I don't really think scum wants to appear that involved in that lynch.Nancy Drew: Town.
I also just townread her based on her interactions with Flavor Leaf/Varsoon and that whole neighborhood fiasco. That whole debacle reads TvT to me actually. Neither side is scum intentionally trying to misrepresent each other, that just doesn't make sense when you consider there are other neighbors to corroborate stories and it's just too risky. No, this reads more like a communication breakdown between two town players who are upset at being lied to/misrepped when it's really just players misinterpreting things. I would be shocked if there was anything intentionally nefarious going on there.
Town read Varsoon from the start. The wagon on him D1 is mostly built on BS? Which in itself not super indicative either way but I don't think his reaction to a BS wagon comes from a scum place. His cop gambit is a little dumb but again, what scum ever fucking does that? I'm not just gonna brush that off as WIFOM, it's a serious question. Ordinarily you might say he's trying to draw a counter claim, but A: Varsoon wasn't dangerously close to a lynch and didn't have to risk that, and B: we already know there might be duplicate power roles in this game so there's no guarantee an actual cop would even think it worth to CC that. There's so much risk and no reward for scum. I don't think his attitude/rage towards sheep was fake at all. Flavor just tonally reads as obv town since he came in. And his spat with Nancy Drew solidified that for me. Flavor is a player I might want to do a meta check on eventually, but for right now I'm confident enough in the read I got on Varsoon and Flavor initially that my paranoia towards this slot is fairly low.Varsoon/Flavor Leaf: Town.
Let's talk about
I don't know if it's bad or not that I wanna town read him for his claim alone. It makes sense, right? This seems to be a highish power town game so having some negative utility in there fits. Plus, his role is just so ridiculous it's hard for me to imagine him making it up. I don't have as much specific analysis for why this slot feels town, as it's mostly gut, but his reads/votes are not opportunistic and I think display a good degree of scum hunting. #1820 is a noteworthy post that pretty much exactly echoed my thoughts at that point in the game and is basically the exact opposite of opportunistic.Wagonomics: Town.
I have "THE BRIE IS SCUM," "DRIE IS SO SCUM," and "THE BRIE IS FUCKING SCUM" written in three separate instances on the first page of my notes. I really really hated the play from this slot during D1. And I'm still not a big fan. In general, she asks a lot of questions and says a lot of things that don't actually push the game forward. Her presence is empty, she waffles around and fence sits way too much. A lot of discrediting her own reads by calling them provisional which allows her a lot of flexibility. This being said, HOWEVER, post #2096 made me rethink this because she explicitly says waffling is just something she does, and then provides meta. I would not expect scum to defend like this and instead try to actually take some hard stances. Her recent play has also been a bit better, but it's not enough to swing my initial strong scum read I got early game.TheBrie: Leaning Scum.
Bleh let's get some of these slots out of the way:
His role in the Flavor/Nancy spat makes me think town largely. Now, this is dependent on my town reads there being correct, but since they're some of my most confident reads I'm fine with doing this. I don't think scum get's so involved/takes one side or another. Instead, I'd expect scum to sit on the sidelines for that more and try to get it to continue/inflate the conflict more. Scum lives off of TvT 1v1s. not much else about his ISO really sticks out. The main reason I ? this slot is because I town read the whole claimed neighborhood and I find it unlikely that all the members are town. If PartyBoat is town, this one might be scum. I could be falling into a trap assuming there can't be an all town neighborhood in this game, but with seemingly so much town power revealed already, it seems unlikely?Xtoxm: lean town?
I gut read him as town. He's a lurker but actually pushes for things and takes stances that I read genuine. It means I believe the IC claim but regardless I'm not gonna spend a bunch of time analyzing this slot because it'll be resolved tomorrow one way or another.Kokichi: Town ig.
I skimmed more than I read the most recent pages, so I'm not too clear why there's a wagon on this slot. I think it's probably a mislynch. She never ever thinks the Leo wagon is a good idea, even before it gets really bad and scum can be sure it'll go through anyway. Nothing in her ISO reads scummy to me so I'm gonna need someone to spell out the case on her. I'd would agree with the narrative that two mislynches are being setup today for town to choose between. However, I don't like post #2354 from Ausuka. It feeds into the BS narrative that we HAVE to lynch either my slot or Ausuka today which... I feel is being pushed by scum (more on that later). This is no deadlines mafia, having "no reason to town read someone" is not the best excuse to lynch someone. This would make more sense in a game with deadlines. However, I'm willing to give it a pass because of the heavy narrative being pressed that we NEED a lynch soon and that the game is stalling out. This could very well be a town survival instinct because of that.Ausuka: Leaning a bit Town.
His push on Varsoon is bad. His push on Gamma is bad. His push on sheep is bad. His push on ausuka is bad. Everything about his play is opportunistic and weak. He has tons of short posts that are effectively fluff and seems to have been able to just blend in until recently. I just have no good things to say about this slot and I'd be fine lynching here today. However, there is another slot I want to lynch more and there's still the off chance Vax is just really bad town.Vaxkiller: Probably Scum.
Let's do the last neighbor:
Bleh. I gut read this slot initially and I liked how he behaved around the Leodanny lynch. He really pushed for Leodanny to give reads and tried to give him a lifeline so Leo wouldn't just keep trolling and get killed. Obviously it didn't work out, but his attempts read genuine. However, I dislike the way he tunnels Varsoon/Flavor and then seemingly only backs off when Flavor replaces in and won't be an easy lynch, despite the fact that PartyBoat is clearly still suspicious. His pocketing of Sheepsaysmeep esp during the Varsoon vs. Sheep spatfest was also yucky. I HATE the whole narrative that Varsoon is obv scum or that there was gonna be a huge wagon but there was last second resistance. That narrative is purported by Sheep and PartyBoat mainly and that seems very gamestate controlly/manipulative. Because it's not true and I don't think the Varsoon slot was ever in any real danger of being lynched. I also very much think Sheep is scum so these two could be buddies, but maybe the buddying is too obvious then. Regardless, lots of conflicting thoughts on this slot.PartyBoat: Mixed.
This is where I'd like to lynch. He is one of the few players I've actually had experience with before and I scum read him basically as soon as I entered the game. I could say a lot about this slot. If he's town in this game, then his town game is exactly the same as his scum game. His whole wavery, BSing playstyle can be seen pretty clearly towards the end of D1, though it's evident throughout.Sheepsaysmeep: Scum.
This REEKS of scum trying to make themselves look better in wake of the Leo flip. It's one of the most noncommittal things that's happened in the game and there are a couple waffley players. It's just not genuine whatsoever. Furthermore, while I thought Flavor vs. Nancy was TvT, the same vibes do not arise from Sheep v. Varsoon/Flavor. I would expect town!sheep to reconsider or back down slightly at some point during all of that drama but he KEEPS TUNNELING. Which is not at all in accordance to his waffely play elsewhere so you can't just say that's a play style. I'm trying not to be biased by my prior experience with this player but I can't stop seeing the similarities between his game here and his scum game.
The most offending factor is the narrative that this day must end soon. It's bullshit. Yes, obviously we need a lynch eventually and we don't want the game to stall out. But we JUST got a bunch of replacements, from the vibes I'm getting the game is in a much better place discussion wise now than it ever was D1 or fake cop claim drama earlier today. This pushed narrative also coincides with sheep's activity dropping significantly, basically once he realizes his continued tunnel on Varsoon/Flavor is just going to make him look suspicious.
Even now he continues to pull this shit. There is not a fucking deadline, only a self imposed deadline primarily driven by sheep's fake frustration. I don't believe for a second his "demotivation" to play this game after the Leodanny flip when he CLEARLY wasn't all that enthused about the lynch in the first place (according to the quoted posts above). Or was that just fake to make himself look better, hmmmmm. The "0 fucks about who we lynch" is not a town mindset in a no deadline game. Lynching either my slot or Ausuka's gives relatively little information about the state of the game, similar to how Leodanny's lynch wasn't super helpful because he was just easy mislynch bait. Sheep isn't trying to make the game better he's just pushing this narrative of needing a lynch soon but lowkey calling them all bad lynches so that when they flip town he can have town cred.In post 2495, sheepsaysmeep wrote:we're lynching someone within 24 hours and i give 0 fucks about who that is at this point
Before I forget: VOTE: Sheepsaysmeep
I should talk about other players before I run out of juice for tonight.
This player has actually made no impression on me and I apparently have nothing in my notes about them. Which, ironically, has made an impression on me. That's not a great sign for a game with 100 pages already. I have at least vague feelings or brief mentions in my notes on almost every other player but this one. Bleh. Nancy says they're a fruit vendor? I'm not familiar with the role, that's not a strict town or scum thing yea? My reads seem to line up with this slots fairly well so that makes me wanna give it town points. I'll do a more thorough ISO later and see if I can get a better feeling for this slot. Nothing jumps out at me as particularly bad, but that's not really a town tell.Purrcocet: Null?
My notes have Theta marked as scum before the replacement. I didn't like the fencesitty play and I don't really think the PR claim clears that up because it could just as easily be a scum JK. Though, while that setup makes more sense in my head I'm unsure scum would actually CC. I dislike Mastina's entrance to the game, her VCA looks like a lot of productive townie stuff but does effectively nothing. I also dislike her call out of today's wagons being mislynches but still being on my wagon?? The observation is good but the actions don't line up. Regardless, this is a claimed PR and will probably be resolved eventually? I don't imagine scum wants to leave a JK alive.Mastina: Leaning scum.
It's getting late here and I have to get up early tomorrow (already surviving on 5 hrs of sleep) so I think I'll have to stop and pick up tomorrow morning.
Ooh, Gamma is town I think, I can talk about that tomorrow. The rest of the players I have mainly gut reads on right now, and it'll take some more time to organize my thoughts on them (should look at purr more too), but for now here's a rough ranking from towniest to scummiest:
Enter/Hebichan
vonflare
jingle/edosurist (is a scum triple voter likely?)
wisdom
singletonking
trekkie
light_ganski
^^ I'll tackle these players and Gamma tomorrow, hopefully I was mostly coherent, ask if you need clarification
Lemme know if I've missed anything or if there's anything i should know, srry for wall, but I'd rather do this to catch up on a 100 page game than spam post 80 times
Let's lynch Sheep! goodnight
What does Purr giving me fruit have anything whatsoever to do with how “obvtown”, you think I am? I claimed it because I didn’t want Purr to be wrongly scumread and I would hate to have her be mislynched and me NK’d before revealing this info.In post 2499, mastina wrote:Um, yes? I was pretty explicit about this? How'd you miss all the labels of "trash-tier", "garbage VCA", and the like where I rather bluntly said it was shit?In post 2498, Dannflor wrote:her VCA looks like a lot of productive townie stuff but does effectively nothing.
How obvtown have you been overall? I seem to recall one or two people pushing you, but have most been townreading you? Because actually, yeah, it kinda does.In post 2473, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:If this is relevant, Purr sent me fruit, N1.
I stated how large a scumteam to expect in 2241. The junk-tier VCA was self-admittedly junk-tier, but you can't do VCA without an estimate of scumteam size at all.In post 2493, Enter wrote:By "general thread feelings" are you saying your particular feelings are the cause of your failure to scumread the slot? Or are you reading the slot based on the feelings of the other players in the thread?In post 2424, mastina wrote:I am townreading Saudade not off of the slot's content--but general thread feelings about the slot compared to Ausuka. There's a term for that, but I can't quite remember it. Essentially, my sense of situational awareness screamed at me, "THE SCUM ARE DIVIDING THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE". And they wouldn't care only if both wagons were a mislynch.
This is why I haven't unvoted. I don't vote townreads that I am townreading off of play, but I'm not townreading Saudade on play. I could always be wrong. My analysis had Saudade as a decent candidate for being scum by play, and that's why I'm staying for now. I am hoping I am wrong. I am hoping that Saudade's slot is scum.
As far as your indications from situational awareness - if I understand correctly, the to be thinking things like this, you must have a relatively confident idea of how large the scum team is, and likely even an idea of it's composition, but I saw nothing in your ISO about these matters. Please talk more about this.
As for general thread feelings, it means precisely that: reading the entirety of players posting and general game atmosphere, everything points to the lynches both being a mislynch. There are players who look town that are pushing one as scum; there are players who look town that are pushing the other as scum; there are players who look town that are trying to push a third player as scum; there are players who look town that have given up on pushing scum; there are players that look scum that are pushing one as scum; there are players that look scum that are pushing the other as scum; there are players who look scum pushing a third as scum; there could be players that are scum who have "given up" on pushing scum (though if so this isn't as obvious); there are players who fit one of these categories that I can't get an alignment read one way or another on.
But all of it points to the same symptoms.
Of two mislynch candidates in the making.
By necessity, that would made the Saudade slot town, because the situation I'm describing wouldn't be the case if we were looking at scum being counterwagoned by town, or vice-versa.
Some of my readsareinfluenced by how others see them--that's my third axis of reading people which I've talked about a bit before (long story short, first axis is "generic behavioral tells"; second axis is "modified behavior SPECIFIC TO THAT PLAYER tells", third is "trust in others")--namely, reads like my sheep townread being in part trusting Nancy who I feel WOULD have the experience to get that read accurate, but most of what I've got here is just looking at what's going on and what "feels" right, and the idea of us lynching scum with our current wagons feels wrong.
Sure I do, but I'll link them later. (I never make empty statements on meta and can always back them up, it's just that usually it requires :effort: that I tend to avoid.)In post 2468, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Do you have any links to an Xtoxm’s scumgame?
It doesn't matter how long you've been pushing the wagon; it's the way you've been pushing. I thought I made myself abundantly clear on this.In post 2475, Purrcocet wrote:only problem with this post is i've been pushing the lynch i want before those two ever were a wagon but ty for claiming wolf
It doesn't matter if you've been tunneling for one page or 100 pages. It matters how the tunnel is done.
For instance, Wisdom's tunnel? Probably town, enough to be my largest townread.
Your tunnel?
Not so much!
Yes because "mastina is scum because she's scumreading me" is entirely a valid argument.In post 2485, Xtoxm wrote:so it was entirely different to the reason mastina is scum here
Yes, of course claim. I mislynched town in a recent game because scum hammerred right after his claim and it was too late to unvote.In post 2500, Dannflor wrote:oh yea I wanted to ask rlly quick
do I need to claim? my slot is at L-2? rnow but idk what the protocol is for games of this size
Yes good point. Still townreading sheep but wavering on Mastina a bit but yeah, if she really believes this is a tvt wagon, she should absolutely not be on either. We are not in a situation, where a no lynch is an inevitability, so she should push the wagon, she believes in.In post 2502, Dannflor wrote:I didn't miss it. Just because you lampshade something doesn't change what it is. It's still a lot of effort put into something that's not super helpful, but people might write off as a town tell anyway because of the effort put into it.In post 2499, mastina wrote:Um, yes? I was pretty explicit about this? How'd you miss all the labels of "trash-tier", "garbage VCA", and the like where I rather bluntly said it was shit?
You're continually calling out this situation as being two mislynches but not actually pushing a different lynch because ???
with no deadline it just doesn't make sense to be on a wagon you don't actually believe in unless you believe it'll be good for town
Why do so many of your posts read so fencesittery?In post 2503, mastina wrote:For the record.In post 2500, Dannflor wrote:oh yea I wanted to ask rlly quick
do I need to claim? my slot is at L-2? rnow but idk what the protocol is for games of this size
The reason I am not unvoting Dannflor is because my read, disregarding my feelings of general game atmosphere, remains unchanged.
Dannflor's content is thoroughly "could be either alignment with a RIDICULOUS amount of ease", with ever so slightest the scumlean to it.
So while by feelings of general game atmosphere he should logically be town, when he posts I'm like, "yeah I'm okay lynching this".
It's not thehappiestlynch (that'd probably be either Xtoxm or singletonking) I'd have, but it's one which I feel isokay.
