TM2020 | Untrod Tripod Destroys Anime! | Endgame

[Jingle]

What did scum lose by attempting mastina kill, actually? Potentially shifting to evens instead of odds?

[Jingle]

Chem
Klick
Kers
Ofhrz
Hito
Shadoweh

That’s roughly where I’m left with role info, btw.

[hitogoroshi]

Fwiw Jingle this is why I want to lynch by order of most-to least-likely scum. I don't trust town to not reevaluate. I also think Shadow has the least potential to swing someone into making a hero call. If we're basically agreed on that three then we should focus on either ending the game before we get cold feet or keeping town on-course.

But also, the more we shout at each other and try to upset each other, the more I just want to end this game/my participation in it ASAP.

I mean, obviously we want to figuring stuff out with the maximal number of living townies, but seeing how much or little people are hustling in to figuring out the solve is useful info itself, right? So it's worth at least pretending you'll let a little bit of flex in to ~~the solve~~ just because it's one more razor for townies to act differently than scum. (Hito says, with very little time until like...Wednesday.)

Though having said that, I feel like Jingle's rabid defense of the sanctity of ~~the solve~~ means it's less likely to be a bluff that he put himself in it.

Klick scum conceits: unlikely kill on mastina, mafia protective with only 1shot vig for town - unlikely.

Ofhrz scum conceits: unlikely kill on mastina, alisae kill over any other kill N2, 4 town protectives for just the scumkill - unlikely.

Kerset scum conceits: unlikely kill on mastina, commute over kill n2.

Hito scum conceits: gave bp to mastina instead of mena when neither was likely to be shot.

Chem scum conceits: unlikely mastina kill, knows action failed on kers n2, corroborated klick claim n3. Around for mena guilty, didn’t share that mena wasn’t successfully targeted by mastina.

Jingle/Shadoweh: setup balance.

Klick scum is even more unlikely than that because he needs to have some sort of funky half-ninja ability that let chemist see the protect and not the kill.

I'm also really not grokking the idea that mastina kill is very unlikely for klick/ofr/kerset/chem, but it's more likely for me/you/shadoweh. What's the logic there?

[Shadoweh]

Uh I do not think that me - jingle - hito wins the game so i am, extremely opposed to whatever's being smoked while im not looking...
We know the BP actually happened because Mastina talked about it so like, no Hito did not bp mastina and try to kill her
I'm really lost on how this conclusion could even be a thing

[Jingle]

Right, klick didn’t kill and did protect, so she’s more confirmed than chem again. I’d forgotten that.

I don’t think the mastina kill is clearing for anyone past that point because I realized that post massclaim scum has nothing to lose by shooting a potentially bp mastina when town has no remaining power to take us off of evens. This realization happened in 2500.

Hito bping mastina doesn’t actually give much towncred, because at that point it would be ridiculous for mena to be vigkilled. I should reevaluate the presumed no kill there (I don’t believe Kerset was shot n2) to see if that’s an argument for Hito town.

Ofhrzs role not existing doesn’t make sense to me with 4 protections and a strongman in the setup.

Similarly Kerset commuting instead of killing only makes sense if she is compulsive commute as scum, but that’s a really weird nerf to give a scumteam.

Shadoweh isn’t cleared by role because I don’t know what the fuck the scumteam could have here.

I think I need to step away and let other people think about this for the time being, because I’m clearly conf boasting myself somewhere, but I think there’s good arguments against literally every potential scum in this game. At this point I think I’m 100% solid in klick and chem and that’s it.

[Shadoweh]

Dude there were two scum left, Kerset could have commuted and Mena would kill Mastina, why would Kerset commutting imply if he's scum they didn't kill at all?
Hito bping Mastina gives towncredit because either our vig is lying scum or scum tried to kill mastina and failed. In a role heavy setup like this you're really going to argue scum thought it was okay not to kill someone for a night? It doesn't matter if it's evens or odds, scum has as little idea what's going on in role madness as town does, they need people to die before they say, confirm a guilty on one of them.

[Chemist1422]

Kerset commuted after Mena died

[Chemist1422]

Also there’s a possibility scum and ofrhz both shot Ali which should be considered

[Shadoweh]

oh yeah. I guess if you get lynched day 2 you're dead for the night phase. Huh :thonk: We already proved Kerset can be targetted so they're not ascetic, it would have to be a ninja. It's still possible but it really makes me hesitate on voting them, which sucks because after rereading I really wanted to.

I've been prodding Dunn but he's kinda busy. So instead I've been reading dead people, jjh spent day 1 basically:
- sitting on Kerset's head
- wagon on ofrhz before the kersetocalypse
- Giving side eye to Jingle in a way that would make me nervous if I was Jingle tbh

He also thought Bitmap was scum but basically said he wouldn't lynch Bitmap before kerset and reundo combined. Looking at the game in context it seems like this could have been a long term kill to take out someone Jingle was afraid knew him too well to fool, or one of a small amount of people that actually suspected ofrhz scum. And if it's Kerset well that's kind of obvious. I secretly hope it actually is ofrhz tbh because Krazy gave me a bunch of reads that ended up being backwards, so it would be perfect karma if his strongest townread was the last scum

[Jingle]

Ninja doesn’t explain Kerset. Chem specifies a failed action.

Either chemist was roleblocked, which is :/, Kerset commuted instead of killing, which is dumb, or Kerset is town.

[PenguinPower]

Votecount 4.06
Not Voting (7): Kerset, ofrhz, Chemist1422, Shadoweh, Klick, hitogoroshi, Jingle With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline : (expired on 2020-02-03 18:30:00)

[Chemist1422]

Ninja doesn’t explain Kerset. Chem specifies a failed action.

Either chemist was roleblocked, which is :/, Kerset commuted instead of killing, which is dumb, or Kerset is town.

I think Kerset could theoretically commute and kill

[Chemist1422]

And I’m pretty sure I wasn’t roleblocked because Kerset claimed the commute before I revealed I had no results

[Jingle]

No? Commuter explicitly cannot perform actions while commuting.

I suppose there could be a variant role that is ascetic for a night, but the setup has given no indications of variant roles other than hito’s.

[Chemist1422]

Oh

I assumed multitasking meant they could

[Jingle]

Commuter is no actions can be taken by or targeting them. It also is the only normal role that stops strongman kills.

[Klick]

Theory: Kerset is compulsive and chose N2 to use his compulsive commute.

[Chemist1422]

Oh

Yeah I think Kerset is just town then

[Chemist1422]

Theory: Kerset is compulsive and chose N2 to use his compulsive commute.

That is what he claimed yes

[Klick]

No I mean that's why he no-killed N2. He had to one night, because he had to commute.

[Jingle]

That’s possible, but again, compulsive scum commuter is weird design wise.

Also, as a scumrole with a partner down why don’t you get the commute out of the way while your other partner is still alive and able to kill?

It’s not impossible, just very unlikely, but Occam’s razor says go for the simple answer in all that.

[Shadoweh]

Chemist can't have been blocked because Mena was dead..

[Shadoweh]

I just want to take a moment to be happy I'm not the only one that made that mistake. ╰(*´︶`*)╯

We've been getting bogged down in mechanics talk and in weirdly personal arguments, unfortunately seeing all the different opinions I think its clear people don't consider the game solved. I don't think it's going to get more clear until we progress. Or, hopefully just bang out the scum right away... █▬▬ ◟(`ﮧ´ ◟ )

Maria says on top of Jingle being a VT, if he was scum mastina would have outted him because they've always seemed to know in games she's in. Jingle how fair an assessment would you say that is?

[Jingle]

I can snow mastina if I need to. I tend not to, I usually kill her if SvT, but I’m more reliable at reading her than she is at reading me.

It’s also been a long time since we were SvT in either direction.

Where did Maria get her information?

[Jingle]

For the record, I would totally have killed jjh as scum, but would never have had Reundo claim VT and would never have had the interactions with mena that I had.