Side note: I feel like there's been virtually no actual discussion on Gibus/Gera except for me saying the interactions don't feel like scum/scum. Almost all the discussion is on NM and Vivax.
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:54 pm
by Corwinoid
NM and Vivax are salient to the issues of which and when to flip Elsa/gibus. Gera gets a slide right now because he's unimportant --
if
gibus flips red I'll read that slot a lot harder as a possible pairing, but for today's issues it's less important than the others.
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:55 pm
by Corwinoid
Also, FWIW, gera's apathy post came off pretty town to me.
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:58 pm
by Eiralox
elsa and ger feel town while vivax/gibus do not and nm is null to green. thas why id rather hunt gibus, while elsa/gera makes sense, gera has been weirdly a townread for me thruout the game, and while elsa feels scummy to me in text considering their actions their way higher on the totem pole than gibus, who again feels green to me but by actions.... seems scummy.
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:59 pm
by Corwinoid
We have very very different reads on this game.
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:00 pm
by Crescent
In post 2502, Corwinoid wrote:Also, FWIW, gera's apathy post came off pretty town to me.
Oh I agree and have already said as much.
Though his response to NM's Vivax vote was so damn bad.
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:01 pm
by Eiralox
i can frame Elsa defense of GB end D1 as scum trying to protect informant, or scum having found pr crumb and now using that to create false narrative where they tried to save pr, but rn imma go with the belief it's town.
idk how much time is left here? dont know if othe vc is accurate it said 2 days something. imma vote for gibus today. hope to hear from others first tho, think theres a lot 2 discuss here.
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:01 pm
by Crescent
Also I've already said today's VCA is the only thing Vivax has going for him. His play today has been godawful and easily the scummiest of any player.
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:02 pm
by Corwinoid
I mean, his play today and the last half of yesterday has been god awful, but I'm pretty sure it's just been god awful not AI-awful.
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:06 pm
by Eiralox
vivax has no reads no cases yet easily names anyone scum. D3 alone: Cres/Cor but gon facts. NM bu got no facts. Eira but.... wtf was viv case on me even? with viv not adressing any points i made regarding d1, bout how viv coyulda been informant hunting.
and vivax refuses to consider thatgbus is more scummy than eira or gibus, yet trusts elsa whos scumreading gibus and looking for partner? i mean with mistakes like that i might just call vivax 100% town and call it a day. but no.
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:06 pm
by Eiralox
*trhan eira or nm
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:06 pm
by Crescent
It's him pushing an Eira/NM team and treating it as serious while wasting his vote on Eira that's really glaring now.
Like the only possible way for Vivax to be town today is if he is intentionally trying to lose the game for town.
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:08 pm
by Crescent
Which given his behavior wouldn't surprise me at all. Vivax practically quit playing after his awful arguments on me day 2 couldn't get any traction.
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:09 pm
by Corwinoid
Yeah, I think he's town, but I think he's off his rocker.
P-edit: Again, I think he's confused shitposting with playing without understanding why it works for NM and not the rest of us, and he's just throwing stuff out without any thought. I don't think he's specifically playing to lose, but I don't think he's trying to win as either alignment atm. We really need him to re-engage meaningfully.
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:14 pm
by Crescent
Yeah we've spent a game day and a half trying to do that now. He's not even shitposting most of the time, he's just randomly calling almost everyone in the game scum without giving any explanations.
The last time he ever actually tried to argue someone being scum was me but he just could not seem to understand how bad the argument was and he seems to have stopped bothering. I town read this total failure of game comprehension back on day 2. On day 3 he has done little but actively subvert the town.
And frankly if I ever get stuck in another game with NM I'm first post voting him and never taking it off until he or I are dead so.. Not like I find him "effective" either~
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:18 pm
by Eiralox
then there's my krassus/kaesar post. at the time before alex's post i thought mafia did not know there was informer, so this post was a veiled way to ask if mafia didn't know then maybe vivax asking if nm is jester, if jester is in game, can indicate scum? but alex wiki post discredited this so i didnt push it D2, it made no sense i guess.
but vivax stated theyre experienced. so in what world does an experienced town player start d1 ask some1 if they vig claimed? why not assume it might be a crumb and stay silent? elsa only spoke about GB crumb when gb was being mobbed, so... vivax never adressed thuis to me, only to some1 else by saying he only wanted to solve the riddle.
thing is if vig was one shot vig wouldve claimed straight out or remained silent. i dont see how calling attention to a post that might be vig claim is good D2. and then i crumbed to gibus i'm not vig so.... yep.
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:20 pm
by Eiralox
*start d2
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:21 pm
by Corwinoid
In post 2515, Eiralox wrote:at the time before alex's post i thought mafia did not know there was informer,
Wait... what?
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:22 pm
by Crescent
I have to admit I've been sitting here trying to figure out that one line too
In post 2515, Eiralox wrote:at the time before alex's post i thought mafia did not know there was informer,
Wait... what?
i wasn't sure whether other mafia knew about OWEn's role, why i asked alex about it and after alex clarified i did nothing with my krassus post, it had no use as originally intented. vivax's uninted resp0onse to it, tho, was one fo the reasons i voted there D@. then later on i thought maybe vuvax was town and vig and this was their way to set me up as vig to keep themselves safe, so i hemmed and hawed on vivax vote. considered voting gibus but after claim nah.
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:27 pm
by Eiralox
start d2 my vote was gibus cos out of all the isos that seemed the scummiest
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:29 pm
by Eiralox
d3 i voted gera cos... idk can't remember tbh, something about the way they voted. got nio soild case there as of now tbh.
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:06 pm
by Eiralox
(Ob btw i think scum tought ELsa/Clidd might be masons, thus the clidd kill if elsa not scum)
gibus iso
d1
#35
Vote cres
#97
Vote Elsa
#343
case on gera flimsy as hell
#354
worried by clidd position on elsa readlist(clidd is green)
#414
In response to GB RE: Elsa
"90 really only gained credibility over time.
And her read on clidd was premature."
#415
"I'd much rather elim Elsa over ger if it were up to me."
#425
Eira: ok but if not Elsa then where would your vote be atm?
Gibus: No idea. GB I guess?
I don't want to sound like I'm white knighting ger, but his vote based on the 2 posts feels rushed and panicky.
It'd make sense for him to divert all that attention asap as scum. Just a feeling though.
#426 > Crescent
"This gives me strong town vibes"
#478 RE: Elsa
"Gotta add that her insistence on policy limming me with 2 days to go and 2 other SRs is very anti town."
#644
Vote Corwinoid
#774
"I just want to see blood"
#781
Vote GeorgebAiley
#789 > UNOwen
"Is this intent to hammer?"
#824 > Elsa Jay
"What crumbs"
#887
"1 scum down
gn town"
D2
#936
Vote Goldfish, Not_Mafia, Geraint (This after Eira vote)
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:12 pm
by Eiralox
ok i'm not seeing why elsa is seeing nm/gibus as the de facto pairing. vuvax/gibus makes way more sense still, i'll post gibus D2 further imm smoke
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:26 pm
by Eiralox
Gibus iso (cont.)
#1105
vote gera
"Will catch up in a bit"
#1298
In post 1298, gibus wrote:Man that was a very busy week. Here are some thoughts on the start of D2.
Speaking of which, does anyone know why this image is in Alex's ISO? ^
I don't, but maybe you do.
Ok, that's a crumb probably would be my best guess.
Methinks this is a bit too laid back to come from scum.
Mafia try not to leave any vulnerabilities in their posts, and discussing pr crumbs is an easy target for being anti town.
Could be calculated but considering the timing of his response, idt that's likely.
Spoiler:
In post 934, Alexcellent wrote:I'm assuming that the scum team didn't actually know Unowen's alignment given he's a traitor
Clidd is an interesting kill. RIP Clidd and George. Sorry for the bad read on you George.
I'm going to have to review some stuff but I sorta felt weird about Clidd/Elsa throughout D1. Not sure how Clidd's death affects things. Elsa is still high up there for me I think.
Def want pressure on Goldfish today. Felt a lot of apprehension and not a lot of scumhunting from her D1.
Nothing super exciting jumps out at me from a glance at Unowen's ISO. He voted Corwin all day long until he hammered George. Maybe worth noting he asked Elsa for an opinion on Corwin and seemed very interested in the answer to the point of repeatedly questioning her. Maybe that's a traitor trying to find out what his scum companion thinks without being able to directly communicate? But also it's admittedly pretty loose. It just kind of jumps out at me because of him repeatedly directing the question her way. And then there's this:
In post 452, UNOwen wrote:I don't think Elsa suggesting she didn't give me any further thought until now after my lame response to her initial poke is a good sign for her alignment.
In post 393, Corwinoid wrote:
I really want to know what your fascination with me is.
I think you're scum.
Does the traitor super bus his scum buddy all D1 long like this? I know this is WIFOMy but I like getting it out into the open. Felt like Owen would have stayed on that wagon and IMO Corwin was at genuine risk of being eliminated yesterday until George wagon got bigger. I feeeeeel like that makes me slightly more leaning town on Corwin. But yeah, WIFOM.
Owen's insistence by itself is wifom sure, but I like Corwin's response.
Quoting the wiki page on traitors:
"identity is not known by the Mafia team, although they should know a Traitor exists"
If corwin is scum, wouldn't it have been better play for him to first ponder over whether this was a signalling attempt or not? Instead there's an immediate OMGUS with 0 hesitation or reconsiderations later.
In post 305, Elsa Jay wrote:
Won't say who yet but reading the last four pages made 2 people move up in my town list and 1 down. I'm here to interact all day as well.
Where is Corwin on your list and why?
I really want to know what your fascination with me is. Since your RVS vote you haven't even looked anywhere else or engaged meaningfully with any other slot in the game. Seriously, what's going on here?
Because there's a 75% chance he's not scum. None of his activity has moved that.
This also is a good post from corwin altho I don't agree with the sentiment. He made it clear that his stance on null players is that they are town by default based on probabilities, meaning scum!him won't be able to push any policy elims on them in the future. Basically the opposite of keeping his options open.
Better for me to be alive and hunt your partner, but it's perfectly fine town to trade me for scum this early when we've already got one too.
VOTE: Vivax
To anyone still scumreading corwin - pause for a second and explain to me why scum would EVER in a million years continue to death tunnel someone more trusted in this situation?
Wasn't that what got him so close to an elimination yesterday? And to keep doing the same as scum with only 1 teammate left.. No way.
*dfense of Alex to vivax
*defends Corwin to Alex
*continues townread on corwin
"pause for a second and explain to me why scum would EVER in a million years continue to death tunnel someone more trusted in this situation?
Wasn't that what got him so close to an elimination yesterday? And to keep doing the same as scum with only 1 teammate left.. No way.
outsmarts bullet"
I can frame this as a defense of Vivax. vivax is not menbtioned but the fact that he's town can be inferred in this response.
