The main thing about Zdenek is that he hasn't really done anything this game. #850 is the best post that he's made for the whole game, but it's sort of what I expect from Zdenek regularly. There's no effort to really figure anything out, and he's just seemed detached the whole game. I kinda like some of his strong responses, but it's not enough to make up from the lack of anything from him.
In post 783, Zdenek wrote:Nacho, did you write 738? If not, could you tell me what you think of it.
This interests me, but I can't call him town for it unless he actually explains it.
In post 1022, Zdenek wrote:Tierce maybe scum for attacking and defending Stup. in the same post.
This was a very weak reason to find Tierce town.
His reads list might as well not have any reasons because it doesn't explain anything about his reads at all.
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:50 am
by Nautilius
4 games, kanye.
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:54 am
by Nautilius
{SpyreX, Zdenek, The Alchemist, AGar, Goat on a Raft, Garruk Relentless}
this is pretty much my kill group in order
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:57 am
by Nautilius
I'm not as confident in Goat and Garruk because the main things clearing them were role-related reasons and I keep getting reminded about role related reasons to clear being bad in these specific scenarios. I'm also having trouble finding people who I feel good about calling scum elsewhere and I trust myself more on reads than I do on role shit at the moment.
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:59 am
by Eddard Stark
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:00 am
by kanyeknowsbest
i have only one game of experience w. pb (in which we were both town) so i cant comment on your first 3 points about how this differs from his norm except that his early posting felt similar to his posting in the other game as was in with him. his vote on me (and i am aware that i appear far easier of a target than i actually am (reading scum qts where they post about how they think ill be an easy lynch is 1 of my greatest mafia joys)) i think is pretty genuine irritation on his part if you read the whole interaction between the two of us. it gives off the sort of unreasonable irritation i expected from him based on my previous experience with him. ill have to check the bits ooba mentioned but i felt his replace out seemed legit in light of his general issues w. sitemeta.
displaced i threw my hands up and didnt even bother reading his two posts.
then theres spyrex. i maintain his hammer is alignment null. his posting today has been less than stellar ill admit, but based on my generally eating hella town and genuine vibes from pb early on ive got some goodwill to the slot. as such i can make excuses in my mind about his claim as well, but i want to see him actually start being proactive. im also reminded of the last game i was in with him (the 1 that he called it quits on mafia until now after) where he was extremely passive and reactive as town.
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:01 am
by kanyeknowsbest
In post 2552, Nautilius wrote:{SpyreX, Zdenek, The Alchemist, AGar, Goat on a Raft, Garruk Relentless}
i think this is an issue for him that transcends alignment.
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:57 pm
by Shadoweh
In post 2540, Nautilius wrote:
I also like this.
Although it reminds me of how much Shadoweh shat on me and mollie and that makes me sad
Im sorry I have bad taste in early scumreads sometimes. I don't think you're scum anymore which is part of why I'm struggling to find someone I do hate.
In post 2542, Nautilius wrote:Syryana was town but I don't think that matters much.
Tierce/Tammy are very strong scumreads.
I can understand seeing Tammy as scum Re: drunbkposting even if my initial townread is holding.
I'm not sure why you'd suspect Tierce though.
Cut: >:( Here I am taking you seriously and you're just a huge troll I hate you again!
In post 2449, Messiah Complex wrote:I don't give a fuck if you have a history of quickhammering. Why? Because you have a history of quickhammering for situations precisely like this one--so you can pretend like you've defeated my argument by telling me you've done this before as town so LOL TRY AGAIN!!!!
Your argument here hinges on "SpyreX spent 4+ years quickhammering just so he could troll one game in 2013."
You do realize that, right?
I only made that point in response to Spyrex's gross attempt to defeat my argument by self-metaing. In any case, it wasn't specific to this game--Spyrex quickhammers as town so that he can quickhammer as scum and get away with it. Unless there's a hidden benefit to derpass troll hammers that I'm missing?
Let's just say I have enough respect for Spy that I don't think he would use games to build a meta just so he could game said meta. I think he's above those kind of shenanigans.
In post 2523, Messiah Complex wrote:
@ AGar, re: 2498: I'm confused. You make it pretty clear that you know who Spyrex is and have formed an opinion of his play, but then you say that you didn't expect Spyrex to quickahmmer because "the competent players aren't going to do anything stupid." But everyone is contending that Spyrex's meta = town trollhammers all day err day. Explain?
- Des
Short of going through 61 games in my history to check the playerlist on every one, I do not recall actually ever playing with SpyreX. If we have played together, it was in a rather forgettable game. I read a few games he was in a few years back for Scummies judging, and I know who he is on site because he's a presence and when you're onsite for 4+ years, you know who the presences are. I don't meta people. I've said before, I feel it's a fairly unreliable tool save for a few circumstances. I couldn't tell you the first thing about SpyreX's actual play beyond his reputation is that of a good player. Generally speaking, I don't expect good players to fast-hammer without solid reasoning.
In post 2454, AGar wrote:Your argument here hinges on "SpyreX spent 4+ years quickhammering just so he could troll one game in 2013."
You do realize that, right?
If you do something as town, you can do it as scum.
Not my point. My point was that the accusation was that Spy spent all of his time quickhammering so he could do it in one game and point to his past meta to go "Ha! I'm town!" First, it's been said he does it alignment null a few times I believe. And second, I've said above about how I feel about that kind of accusation.
I know I'm a bad lynch. I really feel like SpyreX is a bad lynch. But today is not going to end in any other lynch. Let's be realistic here. The end of D2 was way too polarizing for most of the players in this game. No one wants to budge on those. Clearly if push comes to shove, I'm voting SpyreX, and he's voting me. The town needs to come to a consensus on one or the other and just lynch it and progress, because we're literally getting absolutely nowhere in this game right now. Half the town is lurking, and part of that is because we're beating a dead horse. A group feels I'm scummy for putting Amrun at L-1 to bait a quicklynch. Another group feels SpyreX is scummy for quickhammering. There's a handful of people who feel both of us are scummy. This is literally all today has given us, and all that it is going to give us.
In the meantime...
Zdenek is scum.
He was someone I literally couldn't get a handle on the first two days, and upon rereading, it's because there's nothing to really "get a handle on." He pops in, drops some pithy one liners, regurgitates the general groupthink, then leaves. He's riding the ebbs and flows, taking advantage of what goes along in the game to keep himself from completely being readless, but he's just latching onto the biggest opportunity presented to himself and riding the coattails. Generally weak votes all around, no real drive behind them. If you can be pithy, you can use rhetoric in your favor.
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:26 pm
by Tierce
Still alive. Catching up tomorrow.
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:46 pm
by Cephrir
No time to go in depth but the zdenek wagon is the best of the three options. Mostly because the other two feel like mistakes. And I'm still not really even sure why agar is being wagon need, I don't think his vote was scummy at all and I didn't catch on to the apparent thisisnotareallynchwagon vibe that he apparently missed. Could see myself making the same vote there if I was actually scum reading Marin which, ya know, he was.
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:52 pm
by kanyeknowsbest
Ha ha It Sure would be Great to lynch Zed.
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:54 pm
by kanyeknowsbest
nautcho would you be greatly opposed to lynching zed today over the spyman? how big a gap is there between the two in your Kill Order
A quick scrollback says this is correct, he's voted at least once today and nothing happened.
AGar unless you have the same excuse, put your money where your Eatgaboons are and run Zdenek into the ground.
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:56 pm
by Garruk Relentless
We're willing to compromise on Zed. This hydras been plagued by one head being on vacation and having inner turmoil between Agar vs ooba.
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:49 pm
by SpyreX
AGar wrote:Curiosity SpyreX: You want me dead for the L-1 vote or for general play? Trying to get a gauge on who's actually, y'know, pursuing a case, and who's afraid to take on a POWERFUL WIZARD so taking the copout vote.
Not for the L-1. Aint nothing wrong with that. I really didn't like Andrius and I really didn't like your early play. I will admit, and maybe its because you're rubbing my ego's belly and making it purr, I'm starting to get hesitation because defending me when people are clamoring for blood doesn't make a lick of sense scumwise.
---
I need someone else to reparse whatever the hell is going on between quadz and Naut because it reads like white noise.
---
I don't give a fuck if you have a history of quickhammering. Why? Because you have a history of quickhammering for situations precisely like this one--so you can pretend like you've defeated my argument by telling me you've done this before as town so LOL TRY AGAIN!!!!
No.
The fact that it even crossed your mind to offer this sort of deal when you (presumably) don't know my alignment is scummy as fuck. With that said, if you were to miraculously flip town, I would do the same thing I do every other time I lead a mislynch--forget about it and get back to finding scum.
- Des
On some level I'm not surprised. So, the exit strategy is flailing about and after all the spittle is done, just pretending it didn't happen. Gotcha.
I'm not saying I'm town because lol meta. I'm saying that when your argument is ONLY SCUM WOULD EVER DO THIS THING and you're patently wrong and easily proved such, what are you going to do? You that committed to your nonsense that'd you take a rope for it? Nah, course not, cause that would be a hard stance and better get back to finding scum.
However today is not the time to waste on an ostrich, that can come later.
*passes through with a Spyrex For Scum picket sign*
Wooosh.
The thimble holding the actual content from you today is awful empty.
SpyreX, why aren't you voting... moreover why not Agar?
Are you town?
Because I want sweet sweet hammers yo. I think its clear where I would be going.
Zednek is a horrible lynch. I don't have have the same level of confidence with AGar but he shouldn't be today's lynch too.
I actually like Messiah's recent play.
TheAlchemist really needs to start playing soon. Also what does "Glass Towers" mean in the below line?
I will underline this so it doesn't get lost:
He's talking about other wagons while voting the "lead" wagon. He's not even pretending to try and push through his vote.
If Zdenek is scum, lynch ooba.
Naut wrote:{SpyreX, Zdenek, The Alchemist, AGar, Goat on a Raft, Garruk Relentless}
this is pretty much my kill group in order
Goat is town. Just believe. If today ends up being me and stupid please remember that for the futures.
