Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!

[Toranaga]

got prodded so lol

let me put the nail in the coffin and seal this game for us, win or lose

what eragon just posted here was scummy and needs death

he is treating irrel as conftown when he is not, and he is doing that while putting zero work in the game this gameday. the self hammer part is senseless to be something he is thinking of doing when he is town, and pointing it out just feels to me like he is adding layers to his scum!eragon AtE. the whole "idgaf" thing just doesn't feel genuine, does it? yeah maybe rl is taking over, it happened to me too, but "honestly idgaf about this game anymore"? why even say that? and now, 102 pages in after so many dead people worked so hard for town to win this. he is gonna say he doesn't give a fuck? I call it scum.

alright if I'm wrong I'm wrong, let's kill eragon and figure it out yes nauci?

[Irrelephant11]

ISOing both of you more today
Tora always pushes for days to END ALREADY which is a liiiiittle bit scummy?

Anyway I like how long this game day is because I feel I need it to answer who's scum
thx <3

[Eragon]

you know what.

fuck this apathy

fuck this game

i can't do this to you nauci/irrel
its not fair to you who actually tried in endgame and throughout the entire game for me to just roll over and let us lose.

Ima kick school to the curb for the next day or two(I'll still focus but w/e) and help prove this game

[Nauci]

[Nauci]

got prodded so lol

let me put the nail in the coffin and seal this game for us, win or lose

what eragon just posted here was scummy and needs death

he is treating irrel as conftown when he is not, and he is doing that while putting zero work in the game this gameday. the self hammer part is senseless to be something he is thinking of doing when he is town, and pointing it out just feels to me like he is adding layers to his scum!eragon AtE. the whole "idgaf" thing just doesn't feel genuine, does it? yeah maybe rl is taking over, it happened to me too, but "honestly idgaf about this game anymore"? why even say that? and now, 102 pages in after so many dead people worked so hard for town to win this. he is gonna say he doesn't give a fuck? I call it scum.

alright if I'm wrong I'm wrong, let's kill eragon and figure it out yes nauci?

I didn't come this far to just hammer blindly so I'm still drawing this out for when I have time sorry >.<

[Eragon]

Spoiler: Page 1 of tora's IS)

Also nobody dare TR me for that I did a bunch of shitty math only to come to the conclusion that its business as usual as far as claiming goes
in my last game a bunch of people town read me simply for effort and It blew my fucking minds as to why
I put up with it because I was town and people were having a hard time reading me but I'd like to get it out there that effort is not a one to one correlation with scuminess
a lack of effort is a good indicator of scum but a presence of effort does not indicate town

Anyways let that be a lesson to never do gametheory math late at night because youre bound to make idioitic mistakes, theres still a not great part of the stupidly simple model i used that doesn't account for the fact that T contains M in it, I should have broken it into P=t+M for more generalized use to make the death equation a bit easier to see the relationships

Why did you feel the need to "remind" us not to townread you for posting a mathematical proof? I find it a bit odd to automatically assume that people would give you free towncred just for that one early game contribution. I get your point about people making the mistake of townreading based on effort alone, but I really don't think it was necessary to explicitly say that you don't deserve towncred for sharing a mathematical proof.

ok, and so what? do you townread it, scumread it, null read it? who cares if it's unnecessary? is it scummy?

this is a very thin read, but from the very start, the fact that there is no daychat could mean that he is signaling volxen to see what Volxen's plan is and how hes gonna do the reads.

volxen

/

sesq

/

271

all fine lynches

Rule of 3's?
throws in noob!scum, and 2 town as lynches

keyser, idk man, I lost interest with this game cause nobody is playing it

half the slots are scummy so idek where to vote

then says half the slots are scummy, when he only wants to lynch 3

@mod

any chance of a deadline extension?

this is already the towniest motherfucker on the planet

this feels like a pocket, i dont really see how an extension would be so good and towny for asking, because thats an easy fake, so Tora either is pocketing the worst or vice versa

I ISO'd sesq and it's a lot of self contradictory posting that IDK if it's scummy or towny or what

this is very fencesitty, and its a way to leave Sesq's wagon as an option w/out having to be seen as a main pusher.

Toranaga, bad news.. during my re-read I had you down as the scum partner who bussed Volxen

Do you want me to talk through the scum narrative I have in my head?

nah, I know my reads are so good it feels like TMI

lynch me ahead bro

this just feels like deflection, instead of wondering whats the reason and (maybe) worried that he'll be seen as the busser, he just says "nah i know my reads are just too good"

it's TORanaga

TOR

not taranaga

I can take being called toranga, but not taranaga

ok now onto your thing

"
Taranaga name drops his scum partner’s name and two other viable wagons.
Does not go into detail or present his scum case on any of them."

UNEXPLAINED READS? MUST BE A WOLF. you saw how volxen explained every single thing he thought or saw in the game, right? and what did he flip? yup.

"
Taranaga asks this question to Volxen: it’s a very non-aggressive/rhetorical question you would ask your scum partner. I suspect it was soft-distancing."

I'm getting around the idea that this is a wolf making pointless reads/questions etc there. it felt like fake work and I wanted to see what he'd respond to it. this isn't distancing, this is me smelling wolf from his post.

the rest of it I can't really respond to. I'm not in the mood to read this until I need to and I don't need to.

"
hey Taranaga, please give me a rating for a) effort b) believability c) sincerity"

a for effort
b for delivery
a for sincerity

I'm locktowning you for trying to case me, it's really cute from you

locktowning from casing is ??? and i think its to stop keyser from actually voting/casing Tora, because its harder to scumcase people townreading you than people scumreading you

VOTE: dunnstral

scummy posting imo

doesnt explain whats scummy, just goes "scummy posting" and votes, and later goes through DUNNSTRAL's ISO and calls it TOWNY.

i charge you of 3rd degree distancing.

alright dunn

I ISO'd you and didn't think it was too bad. there's some towny moments like making fun of NSG and asking a bunch of seemingly relevant questions while providing no follow up. little towny things here and there.

you seem only focused on ausuka this gameday and I can't townread anything this shallow.

"theres some towny things and then little towny things here yada yada yada"
after saying dunn was posting scummy...
feels like backing off from bussing

I'm gonna townread dunn's last post cause he is attacking my perspective on mafia in general other than read/my alignment or whatever

it's just a towny thing to do

attacking your mafia perspective is towny?????
thats the first i heard, this is just reaching for a reason to give a strong TR to dunnstral

Votecount 1.08

volxen (4)

- Reundo 220, Irrelephant11 221, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224

2 718281828459 (1)

- Kop 194

Dunnstral (1)

- northsidegal 170

Reundo (1)

- Ausuka 142

Sesq (1)

- Dunnstral 117

[GameNBurger] (1)

- volxen 14

Not voting: [GameNBurger], Toranaga 110, 2 718281828459 151

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

what a beautiful vc. this wagon feels pure. I didn't read irrelephant or reundo to any depth but the posts keyzer soze mentioned are a great look for reundo who seemed to be onto volxen from the very beginning and for all the correct reasons why he was a wolf (the superficial highly descriptive posting that never really went anywhere). keyser is very towny and I think sesq is town for a lot of added up thin reads on both players in that slot.

alright good start.

and the wagon was pure, is it TMI? especially saying that he didnt read rel/reundo and still called them pure.

VOTE: ausuka

let's do this dunn

you and me baby

after saying dunn had wolfy posting and then towny posting, just sheeps dunnstral on Ausuka...

Came into D2 thinking Toro-Dunn (but they’re both united over scum-Ausuka, who in turn doesn’t town read them! how perfect ) so this is going to be an interesting day. So I’m now sat here with my popcorn, waiting to see the uncensored interactions between those players (so far they’ve talked about eachother, but not engaged one another).

maybe tora but I think dunn is town mate

p.much scumclaiming and giving dunn a higher read than himself.

i know its probably a joke, but sometimes jokes have effect.
if you claim scum as a joke, is it a joke or real???

My last thought (about Toranaga) got me thinking about how the wagon on volxen happened and I went back and found this

hot take: we need to hammer Sesq who will do nothing to defend themselves or flashwagon volxen who is one rung townier and will become extremely obvious later if scum

Which, given scum don't have day chat, is VERY INTERESTING.
If volxen "will become extremely obvious later if scum", why be concerned about lynching him now? (wagon movement was still more toward sesq, who tw says here is scummier)

Unless

he's trying to hint to his scum buddy that it's time to bus

Toranaga immediately followed it up with the move to vote volxen, which tw followed. Tor has tried to claim towncred for them both this game day, and has since lampshaded "inb4 partners" which, admittedly, would be bold, but would also make anyone who called them partners look a little silly

Any thoughts on this? tw has come across as feeling v towny in tone but I can't get over the combo of
-GNB's weirdness
-volxen's long, drawn out nullread of the slot
-tw's TMI of the lynch

And then Toranaga
-Has directed attention off-wagon without reasoning
-Has lots of interactions with tw that are really very friendly and (significantly) once tw joined the game Tor was much more interested in playing

Tor was also pretty scummy last game day imo (see: Keyser's case, which was mostly ignored?)

Thoughts anyone? They happen to both be independently possible scum but ISO the two of them + GNB and see if you see what I see

For now I'll start with VOTE: Toranaga

pedit: hi sorry

same as above, the faking "Scumclaiming" seems as a way to show "scum would never act like they are caught just cuz someone scumreads you"

when have I directed attention off wagon though? I came in, read the wagons, thought volxen was scummier and booya it was scum

the crowd goes wild woohoo

this seems like going overboard with trying to get towncred for helping get volxen lynched.

everyone casing me is town

how about that read brothers and sisters

i said this earlier, this state of mind is wolfy AF and very pocket-y

VOTE: volxen

Hi duckling.

VOTE: sesq

Probably a decent vote tbh my tr on them kind of feels like it was probably an inaccurate shitread.

Joining around 4th/5th on both wagons without any explanation

here

sheep this god of mafia

dunn you're so good with this ausuka push

the fuck was I thinking misreading you as a wolf

this just reads weird, "the fuck was i thinking misreading you as a wolf"
i mean, bringing attention to this just is a bit "oh no im so bad at reading your obvious town" with giving reasonings like "thats a good push"
Tora's interactions with dunnstral are extremely telling

I'll let someone else do it cause it's a lot of long complicated posting that'd require too much from me lol

I just dropped by to say ausuka has literally dropped the 3 names pushing her the hardest as her top scumreads

it's OMGUSing so hard that it's probably the first time I use the term seriously

This is also horrible, and ignores the fact that a) I was scumreading Dunnstral from before he voted me and b) town are naturally inclined to suspect people pushing them. Like in this case scum are legitimately on my wagon because the push on me is awful but even if they're not any townie is often inclined to say people pushing them is town. Honestly I think Toranga is far too experienced to not know this.

I'm townreading everyone that thinks I'm scum other than you cause I know you're doing this out of desperation. you're just scumreading everyone that scumreads you lol. and dunn is town so you're 100% wrong on all the reads.

or your trying to keep the lynch option open instead of calling ausuka town

Also nobody dare TR me for that I did a bunch of shitty math only to come to the conclusion that its business as usual as far as claiming goes
in my last game a bunch of people town read me simply for effort and It blew my fucking minds as to why
I put up with it because I was town and people were having a hard time reading me but I'd like to get it out there that effort is not a one to one correlation with scuminess
a lack of effort is a good indicator of scum but a presence of effort does not indicate town

Anyways let that be a lesson to never do gametheory math late at night because youre bound to make idioitic mistakes, theres still a not great part of the stupidly simple model i used that doesn't account for the fact that T contains M in it, I should have broken it into P=t+M for more generalized use to make the death equation a bit easier to see the relationships

aaaaaaand gamenburger is already never scum because he is lecturing no one in particular on how townreading him for effort is wrong, before anyone said anything.

also I find his watcher claiming content something that doesn't even go through scum head in the first place... it's one thing to say a bunch of LAMIST-y stuff just to get townread. this man is going depths to understand how to best play the set up.

so yeah that's yet another evidence that the worst is pretty much always town here.

i agree here, but if your so confident in TW!town, why were you fine with him being lynched D3(iirc you were fine with it)

yeah sure, why not?

did you notice when I voted volxen? you're scumreading me when you did read the game which is probably much worse

brings up the fact that he VOTED VOLXEN YET AGAIN

duckling why do you townread toranga so much?

his reaction to my entrance pinged town, he's quite organically reached a few of the same thoughts I have and I think his fluctuations in energy levels are pretty genuine from him.

legit starting to t/tread u two as well

so good at mafia, this kid

I'll literally let you tell me which one of dunn/ausuka is best today, I think you're leaning dunn and that's fine by me tbh

I did like his ausuka wolfread a lot on d1/today and I like that he mocked NSG as a towny thing to be doing

the first sentence sounds like extreme pocketing, and the second is also pocketing but also the switch on Dunn again, he had been saying Dunn's clear town just a couple posts before,

keyser/duckling always town too, right?

I hope so

and is fine lynching duck

wouldn't town!northsidegal be completely sure someone is scum already?

wouldn't she be building these beautiful walls of literature about it?

where is all of it? where is any of it?

scumreading someone because they havent found scum(FTPOV) is extremely shallow and reachy.

I agree dunn backtracking on his ausuka scumread is towny of dunn, idk what that means re: svs tvs svt or anything. it's a good look for him regardless and I think based off d1 the way dunn shaded ausuka doesn't really happen as a svs interaction at all.

calls dunn towny AGAIN

ok lets lynch dunn, sure

but if it's town

aus/nsg is still where I'm at

VOTE: dunnstrall

and then votes dunn with intent to hammer(in a different post) which i find wolfy compared to the fact he had strongly been TR'ing dunn

VOTE: northsidegal

not voting anything else today. I read another 10 posts from her ISO and none of them are towny, many are scummy. it's literally just blending in without a single post that indicates an actual attempt at solving the game. her progressions are non existant, her scum reads are empty, her town reads are blend, this isn't NSG's town game and IDC what your meta is. anyone can make 64 air balloons in posting form as scum, even the person who hates scum the most. IDK what the hell are you guys seeing here, I really don't.

sorry if wrong, don't think so.

says hes not voting anywhere else, but ends up hopping on the dunn wagon, probably for towncred of ANOTHER bus

dunn is totally scum, his ISO is horrible

this is REEAALY wierd especialyl after having such a hard town read on Dunn, pretty much like a "told you so"

ok, real talk

anyone scumreading dunnstral needs to read him shading the volxen wagon when it was L-2 and actually pushing people who voted there. is this in his scum range? because this is objectively towny. a player's first instinct while watching a wolf team mate go down, is to distance themselves from it. universally. dunn is not only not doing that, but actively pushing people with good reasoning behind it. this does not seem like he knows volxen is scum at all.

Spoiler:

I don't really understand the town-reads of volxen. Everything he's posted seems like surface-level scum-hunting based mostly around points that have already been brought up by others, and as a whole it seems like he's much more interested in garnering why player X scum-reads player Y than providing scum-reads of his own. I'm more worried about him than 2.718 at the moment.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: volxen

VOTE: volxen

Yeah, i can see that

VOTE: volxen

VOTE: volxen

VOTE: volxen

This momentum is pretty weird - I don't think Reundo's case in 220 is that compelling. Sesq looks bad here.

Who was town reading Volxen?

Yeah, i can see that

Can you point it out for me?

Yeah, i can see that

Can you point it out for me?

Now would be a good time to explain this Sesq

Still think sesq is question dodging

Ausuka votes are kind of weird, though

and then he townreads dunn again, and then votes dunn again at EoD

I'll maintain that both wolves are in ausuka/nsg/dunn and if we kill all of them we win the game most of the time

if you wanna lynch dunn this gameday, I'm not gonna stop you.

here is another rule of 3's, and he is fine with dunn lyncheven with his "strong TR"

yeah idk man

I think dunn gets lynched regardless of this read on him

I think with you that at least 3 if not more people, that think the way he defended volxen doesnt really happen as svs. I'm the one who initially postulated this idea ITT and I think it's correct, but it's absolutely very very thin and his attitude/posts outside of that are not towny. it's quite the hero read given the context where dunn is just potatoing the game really hard.

I absolutely don't understand anything on your paragraph about NSG. also I think between her and ausuka, ausuka is a lot townier and the town between the two if there is one town between the two.

i think town!Tora would try to save someone he strongly TR's

-the assocations with Dunn are absolutely horrid, he completely flips back and forth with the read, calls it scum/town/scum/town calls it hard town and doesnt try to save it at EoD
theres more, read the post
-he claimed scum technically, it could be a joke, but also its probably deflection and WIFOM, "scum wouldn't claim scum saying they were caught cuz one read"
-keeping his mislynch options open, like when he townread EVERYONE EXCEPT AUSUKA for casing him????
-pocketing, much with TW
-townreading people casing him because it makes it less likely for them to strongly push him

thats the main gist of page 1, probably some more in my wall i forgot to note here, but yeah

these are extremely telling

[Eragon]

the fuck happened with that quote

[Eragon]

got prodded so lol

let me put the nail in the coffin and seal this game for us, win or lose

what eragon just posted here was scummy and needs death

he is treating irrel as conftown when he is not, and he is doing that while putting zero work in the game this gameday. the self hammer part is senseless to be something he is thinking of doing when he is town, and pointing it out just feels to me like he is adding layers to his scum!eragon AtE. the whole "idgaf" thing just doesn't feel genuine, does it? yeah maybe rl is taking over, it happened to me too, but "honestly idgaf about this game anymore"? why even say that? and now, 102 pages in after so many dead people worked so hard for town to win this. he is gonna say he doesn't give a fuck? I call it scum.

alright if I'm wrong I'm wrong, let's kill eragon and figure it out yes nauci?

ill respond to this post singly because its on the same page rn

Yes i am treating irrel as conf!town until i can do things and get a read, and i am 99% confident they are town, ever since beginning of the game.
isnt the "self-hammer" stuff also senseless as scum? plus the fact i said i would do it but 1. its gamethrowing and 2. nauci/irrel dont deserve it, shows i wasnt really serious, and you pushing over this is reachy AF.
idgaf was perfectly true, and i do believe i explained why i said that, because i had had fun during the game, and didnt want to ruin it in end-game with a bunch of shit/hate

[Flicker]

Votecount 5.06

Eragon (2)

- Toranaga 2474, Irrelephant11 2543

Not voting: Eragon, Nauci

The deadline for Day 5 is 11:54 am CT on Thursday, October 25, in (expired on 2018-10-25 12:54:10).

[Nauci]

Appreciate it, Eragon

[Eragon]

im tired and i did have a fuck ton of homework today but ill do the next page/maybe next next page tommorow evening

[Irrelephant11]

well forget this game because I'm now sold on them both being scum tbh

[Irrelephant11]

eragon you had toranaga in your towncore along with me for awhile
why did you lose your townread on tora when it became lylo while holding onto your read of me?
If your answer is a variation of "pocketed" please provide examples

I ISO'd both players and especially read around EOD2 and I no longer think it's toranaga
I am back to feeling game solve about it

[Irrelephant11]

Some reasons tor is likely town, besides the d1 "bus":
-mentioned tw should have been n1 kill for TMI'ing volxen's lynch (the only townie who could TMI was watcher, so yes tw should have been the kill there) to which eragon replied something like "huh?"
-when eragon/dunn were competing wagons, and eragon was at L-1, Tor went back to dunn first (I think). This would be Tora's second time singlehandedly choosing to lynch a scum partner over a townie
-the number of mislynches in a row implies we were operating on a false assumption; that assumption was not town!toranaga (which developed d2 as a result of toranaga's volxen vote), because we had that in mind when lynching dunnstral. It is more likely town!eragon (which developed d3 as a result of eragon wanting dunnstral dead), because once that settled in we could no longer manage to lynch scum

[Irrelephant11]

I also read two of eragon's newbie games and this reminds me much more of scum!eragon than town!eragon, right down to how he scumcased his only living partner (compare 1526 and his "why are you treating my slot differently" scum case there with this scum case of Quick (including "why are you treating my slot differently") that he never votes for/pursues until he needs to to live)

The town game I read was https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=76847
and Krazy in that game solved it by eragon's sheer towniness, which I don't gather here.

ughh but otoh scum!eragon in that other game didn't keep Quick in the bottom of his PoE for like 5ever like he did with dunnstral here

anyway there's some thoughts

[Irrelephant11]

dunnstral I'm actually flip flopping a lot more than I'm showing so don't give up here
tora if you would do more to show scum!eragon here that would be great

[Nauci]

I have uneven amounts of residual astigmatism and bad haloing from lights sources but it's gotten a bit better today so I'm going to take a crack at this because I'm running a fever so can't do housework anyway \o/

[Irrelephant11]

wooooo

[Eragon]

VOTE: Toranaga

i cant let town lose without even trying to change the wagons

[Flicker]

Votecount 5.07

Eragon (2)

- Toranaga 2474, Irrelephant11 2543

Toranaga (1)

- Eragon 2568

Not voting: Nauci

A lynch has been achieved, and a win condition has been reached!

[Flicker]

After the end of the last, long day, the stranger reappears, holding their hat against their chest.

"Didn't think, with just the four of you, that you'd need so much time, but so it goes. Who shall leave our group this final day?"

Two hands point firmly toward Eragon. After a delay, Eragon points toward Toranaga.

"Well, alright then. Now, come this way, friend, and you can join your teammates."

The stranger leads Eragon away. When they return, they're smiling.

"I think this calls for a celebration. Let's welcome back all the winners, shall we?"

Tables piled with food appear. At the same time, multiple doors open, and Huntress, Ausuka, the worst, northsidegal, Keyser Söze, and Reundo walk through them.

Part of you wants to just go home, but you don't want to turn down free food - and after all, you did "win" - so you stay for a little while. When you finally leave, a gentle high-pitched sound surrounds you, and the building slowly reverts back into the empty, abandoned Wawa. You look down to see you're wearing the same clothes you were the first day. You check for the WW coin, but it's gone...

[Flicker]

Eragon, a

Mafia Goon

, was lynched Day 5.

Town

wins!

[Irrelephant11]

WOW I was holding my breath when the deadline unexpectedly ran out o.O
That was so fun! What a good game, everyone!

Thanks Flicker!

[Ausuka]

gg! Thanks for modding Flicker! I wonder what happened to volxen and Dunn

[Flicker]

Mod PT
Dead PT
Mafia PT

(TBD)

I'll release the mafia PT if/when those who posted in it agree to it.