California Trilogy: City of Angels - Off Stage (Game Over)

[zu_Faul]

Talilan not answering the question Shadowlurker asked on top of this page bothers me.

Starkiss: Onstage: Day 1 behaviour a bit like hewitt's. I totally don't understand the doubt they were seeding, having both advocates agree was most probable, and Starkiss declares it weird. Scene 2 they say that the neutral choice could be a bad choice. (Post 26). When we have information that neutral means neutral... Then votes crone as the first player. (At least according to his post 38, correct me if I am wrong). Starts the button scene with saying pushing is a good idea.
Offstage: Completely ignores Pooky, except for threee times where he jsut says that pooky should post. This looks scummy.

I agree that starkiss is quite scummy.

[StarKiss]

In post 26, that meant that neutral could be beneficial to Scientologist. This was under the presumption that SMG and Scientologists are two different factions.

CKD is not a jester. After he flips, if he is innocent, then we will know that he was invited to join the SMG during the first scene. That's the experimental nature of his lynching.

zu, did you get any old PMs that Panzer received when she was advocate?

And I agree that everyone off-stage last scene looked scummy. I think everyone except hewitt had weak cases. Practically looked like a gangbang on MafiaJin.

[curiouskarmadog]

lol, everyone looks scummy off stage, because I choice all scummy players to be put off stage (except for Orbots)...but to include MJ....

hewitt's vote was extremely scummy, and the fact you a defending him leads me to believe you know he is town.

[curiouskarmadog]

also interestingly enough...no stuntman.

[StarKiss]

I hadn't noticed, but you're right, he's inexistant.
GnB is slacking apparently. We should have established a song to ask why there is no stuntman.

Well, I'm fairly up to date, so when Zu and Thesp are ready for the lynch give me a wack (or get CKD to self-hammer, whatever floats your boat)

Not like we can be rushed, 3/4 must vote in order to lynch.

[curiouskarmadog]

first of all...I didnt know DGB was the AP?

second, we dont need a song..we need a pick from Thesp..and thesp already has one.

[zu_Faul]

CKD is not a jester. After he flips, if he is innocent, then we will know that he was invited to join the SMG during the first scene. That's the experimental nature of his lynching.

CKD, you are not just misunderstanding the hint you got? Maybe the scientologists ARE the SMG, for example.

zu, did you get any old PMs that Panzer received when she was advocate?

Yes. Got the Scene 1 PM.

And I agree that everyone off-stage last scene looked scummy. I think everyone except hewitt had weak cases. Practically looked like a gangbang on MafiaJin.

MafiaJin was already dead last scene, no?


Goofballoons is Assistant Director, not A.Producer.

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD is not a jester. After he flips, if he is innocent, then we will know that he was invited to join the SMG during the first scene. That's the experimental nature of his lynching.

CKD, you are not just misunderstanding the hint you got? Maybe the scientologists ARE the SMG, for example.

unfornately I am not...it says (paraphrased) that if I get people to make me drive, I will join the SMG and my alignment will change to that. If they chose valentine I will remain innocent.

the only thing that I can think of is once endgame starts, that the Sci. turn into the mafia...that would indeed be a -1 for town...but it really is a guess.

zu, paraphrase Panzer's advocate pm if you can.

[zu_Faul]

I really only said that I should be the one driving, no matter what Locke says. I knew that it was correct.

[StarKiss]

{Kise}

@CKD - hewitt's reason was because he felt MJ was useless. You laid out scenarios on what MJ has been doing if he was scum; how he's operating, and often fencesitting. hewitt's honesty > your speculation. I said earlier that 2 of the people on MJ's wagon just have to be scum. Shadow is the only one I discredited as being scum, so don't put it past me to suspect hewitt. I'm only going off of MJ's wagon.

I thought it was suspicious that sottyrulz & Thesp did not pick anything incriminating on-screen for the first 4 scenes. I also have my eyebrow raised at Talilan for picking nothing but correct choices, and flaunting this holier than thou image.

If I'm not the only one to notice the updated rules for Endgame , then you'll see it's an open set-up. So it's not as if mafia have much to lose by letting a few Good choices get selected. I'm seriously bugged by Talilan, and no stuntman may mean the AP has lost faith in a few of us or doesn't want to risk exposing themselves.

[StarKiss]

Bah, I didn't complete my thoughts.

I thought it was suspicious that sottyrulz & Thesp did not pick anything incriminating on-screen for the first 4 scenes.

+ But with sotty dead, and being revealed as Innocent, it could also bear resemblance to Thesp and their alignment.

[StarKiss]

~Dram~

Err... right, for a moment I was under the impression the AD chose the stuntman too. Which in itself makes no sense since that'd make the AP obsolete =_=

[Thesp]

wait why is it a good idea to make Zu claim?

Why should I claim? I doubt this is a good idea.

Because I'm tired of all the dancing around. If the scum really are hunting for the Assistant Producer, they would have killed you by now. (I wouldn't come out so strongly on this now, but at least one person has outright stated that they thought zu_Faul is the AP.) The asymmetry of information from Day 1 still reeks to high heaven to me, and it hasn't been resolved to any degree of satisfaction. I've been gunning for Panzerjager/zu_Faul, only to back off when I thought there were strong indicators that zu_Faul was the AP. Since there's already been strong indications and several people seem to think it's him (I've seen other allusions), I don't want the charade to go on anymore, and I don't want zu_Faul to skirt by on it if he's not going to claim AP.

I want zu_Faul to claim AP/not-AP, and I want it quite soon. I don't want it dallying about until the end of the day.

And I agree that everyone off-stage last scene looked scummy. I think everyone except hewitt had weak cases. Practically looked like a gangbang on MafiaJin.

That's not the scene I was referring to.

If I'm not the only one to notice the updated rules for Endgame , then you'll see it's an open set-up. So it's not as if mafia have much to lose by letting a few Good choices get selected.

Letting a few good choices be selected may eb the difference in getting a cop or not, things like that. I believe the tilt of balance in the setup is dependant on the value of selections.

[curiouskarmadog]

no thesp that is a horrid idea...I dont care what kind of dancing you are sick of...perhaps the scum only have so many kills...and perhaps you are trying to eliminate choices for them....but that line of bullying is crap...and you should know that...

you have presented no good reasons for any AP to come forward....that is the ONLY role that is confirmed town and you trying to locate that role is super scummy..

if I do die today....I would like those on stage to comment on this line of thinking, it is scummy nonsense.

[Thesp]

no thesp that is a horrid idea...I dont care what kind of dancing you are sick of...perhaps the scum only have so many kills...and perhaps you are trying to eliminate choices for them....but that line of bullying is crap...and you should know that...

you have presented no good reasons for any AP to come forward....that is the ONLY role that is confirmed town and you trying to locate that role is super scummy..

if I do die today....I would like those on stage to comment on this line of thinking, it is scummy nonsense.

Can you tell me who you think in thread has been

most strongly against

the Assistant Producer being revealed?

(Also please keep in mind that I'm only advocating for an AP reveal

if zu_Faul is the AP

, which I'd wager half the people suspect anyway, including the scum if zu_Faul's not scum.)

Also, do you think the information Panzerjager claimed in D1 was unusual in relation to the information you presented? I don't remember you ever commenting on it.

[curiouskarmadog]

thats the problem with a memory...it sometimes fails you. check again.

I do think the information was strange and I thought that Panzer's reaction was also strange....I have mentioned I cant see how a game could be balanced if the mafia team doesnt have a finite number...but I forgot that this is not a normal game.

So what if people think that Zu is the AP...maybe he is...maybe he isnt. But the fact we havent had kills in a while from scum, makes me believe they have a certian amount of them...(though I think this was someone else's theory first, so I cant take credit)...so why on earth is it a good idea for him to claim if he is? WHAT IF HE IS? Why are you doing scum's work for them?

explain to me how this is a good idea...

[Thesp]

I do think the information was strange and I thought that Panzer's reaction was also strange....I have mentioned I cant see how a game could be balanced if the mafia team doesnt have a finite number...but I forgot that this is not a normal game.

So you went a long way in saying you don't think it's all that odd because it's not a normal game? It seems really weird to me that someone would get detailed results as to what the consequences are of an action, and another player gets "you should drive". Yet you're okay with it. I'm still baffled.

It also seems to me that a significant number of people are avoiding a zu_Faul lynch precisely because they fear he's the AP. I think he's playing to that,

whether he is the AP or not

. If the mafia are gunning for the AP, sottyrulez was likely a poor choice, was he not? Seriously, I think if the mafia were trying to kill the AP, zu_Faul would have been dead last time instead of sottyrulez.

A question you may not have noticed in my last post: Can you tell me who you think in thread has been

most strongly against

the Assistant Producer being revealed?

[curiouskarmadog]

and again, you havent provided a reason why outing the AP (if it is Zu) is a good idea. Because people are afraid to lynch him is a bad reason. This continued line of pushing, makes you looks more and more scummy. Why was sotty a poor choice? He looked town AND he wasnt assigned a role...in my book that is a good choice.

Why are you pushing for this now...arent you one of those who thinks I a scum? Shouldnt we be lynching me today versus trying to out a possible AP before the day is out? God I hope those who are town on stage note this shit when they get back.

I am not sure where you are going with the "who most strongly is against" the AP being reveal? I assume you want me to look it up and discover something myself. I dont know, who? Me? Why, what is the point??

[StarKiss]

{Kise}

Thesp, if you're talking about who has

posted

about being strongly against the AP claiming, then I don't think you'll find it anywhere. No one really wants to talk about that subject. Could you explain in a precise sentence or two why you need to find out whether zu_faul is the AP?

[Thesp]

and again, you havent provided a reason why outing the AP (if it is Zu) is a good idea. Because people are afraid to lynch him is a bad reason.

The potential AP-ness is one of the only reasons I have

not

to lynch him (your particular situation is another), and I suspect I'm not the only one. (Just because you disagree with my reason does not mean I don't have one.)

I am not sure where you are going with the "who most strongly is against" the AP being reveal? I assume you want me to look it up and discover something myself. I dont know, who? Me? Why, what is the point??

Here are some useful quotes:

the AP is one of the biggest advantages the town has.

if he survives into endgame, he is a confirmed innocent there(or he forces a counterclaim take out one scumbag with him or they guess right and hit the scumbag first). A confirmed innocent in a 7 player setup is a HUGE edge.

letting Glork draw out our AP is REALLY REALLY bad.

...

look, the scum are not going to let the AP survive to endgame BECAUSE THE SCUM DECIDE WHO GETS TO PLAY IN THE ENDGAME AND WHO DOESNT.

a revealed AP means he is DEFINITELY not making it into endgame and thus can't be a factor in the ENDGAME.

remember guys, what happens here is ALL about setting up the endgame and having a hidden AP who can claim on day 1 is a HUGE town edge as 1 confirmed innocent in a 7 player game is a huge swing. Having a revealed AP is VERY bad in that he won't make it into endgame and then we won't get that edge.

this is a calculated gamble designed to draw out our AP, DO NOT let him do it.

...

look, the scum want to hunt out the AP and make sure he doesn't make it into endgame, because they don''t want that confirmed innocent in our 7 player pool.

I don't see Glork's "breadcrumb" as a breadcrumb but consider if you're a scumbag who is trying to hunt out the AP to make sure he doesn't make it into endgame, wouldn't you lay down some breadcrumbs too so you could fakeclaim and lure him out? After all, your death isn't that important as only 2 scumbags are going to endgame anyway whereas the AP is a big weapon in the hands of the town.

So i would definitely expect forward thinking smart scumbag to "breadcrumb" in hopes of getting the AP later in the game. It's pretty clear it's curtains up for Glorko, so he's pulling this last trick out of his hat to lure out the AP. Do not let him do it.

...

the role itself isn't that strong imo,

being able to assign jobs is still something you have to do well, if you only put your scumbuddies in the powerful roles, the town is going to have a field day during endgame. Like you still have to give REASONS as to why you're putting this guy in this role and what not. plus I don't really think these roles are that important, the most important part of the AP role is the confirmed innocence, but ONLY the first AP can have that advantage, if he's revealed, it all gets lost.

That's Pooky. He was really, really adamant about the AP not being revealed. Sure, he's looking to get town points by looking like he's trying to hide the AP. I think if the AP was that big a deal to scum, Pooky wouldn't be doing this.

I'm after zu_Faul because he's been skating for quite some time. I understand he's still catching up with this game. (Goodness, I feel it, and I've been in the game the whole time!) There's still something hideously unresolved about him that I'd like to clear up. If there's anyone I would lynch over curiouskarmadog, it's him, and I want to explore it while we have the moment (and still a day before).

Kise, let me know if it's not clear what I'm looking for here. zu_Faul is the only other person I'd seriously consider lynching, and I will seriously consider lynching him depending on how this shakes out. If scum really are hunting the AP, zu_Faul would likely be dead by now.

[Thesp]

Sorry for the double-post.

[StarKiss]

{Kise}

zu_faul is not an option for me today. I'd be willing to speak for CKD and say zu isn't an option for him neither.

Also, Pooky (for such a lurker) seemed to be up to date about Glork's breadcrumbs. I think his group (if main anti-town faction) was watching Glork the entire time. As you can tell by that quote, Pooky did not want to let Glork live, despite the supposed breadcrumbs. That just goes to show that Pooky wanted to continue lynching someone he [possibly] thought was AP, but under the guise of not believing him to be the AP.

[curiouskarmadog]

well, you dont need to speak for me.

Thesp....I am curious, what are you going to do if he is the AP?

acutally before you answer...I am curious as to what Zu has to say on this matter.

[zu_Faul]

I find it ridiculous that I should claim and see no good reason why I should. If I was the AP, scum could still kill me before endgame - or just not put me into the endgame group. If I wasn't, scum could easily put me into endgame, having a townie with a less than stellar clue about this game. The only thing town would gain in the second variant (town gains nothing, if I actually am the AP) is the possibility to lynch me without second thought. This only makes sense to push for if you actually think I am scummy. And I have not seen a case on Panzer or me.

Good question CKD asked there.

[Thesp]

And I have not seen a case on Panzer or me.

You have got to be kidding me.

Also, there's no way in the world I'm telling how I would react to a particular zu_Faul claim until he actually makes a claim either way.

Also,

Vote: curiouskarmadog, zu_Faul, StarKiss, No Lynch, Thesp