Gameshow Mafia (Reroll): Game Over

[OkaPoka]

hey


using it in mylo 4p is an improvement

[RadiantCowbells]

alright

so we can play a "go to evens" strat where we add reveal to the list of PRs that we actually use.

[RadiantCowbells]

also that doesn't change the fact that mbaki is scumclaiming in their opposition

his argument wasn't predicated on it being literally impossible, his argument was predicated on it being wrong mechanically when it was objectively not.

[Taly]

Why are we now strategizing in the event of mylo?

Yes, it's good to have a long-term plan, but realistically its unlikely we'll get to this point.

People should adapt to lower-utility powers now if it helps us in a worse position later, but we shouldn't sacrifice strong confidence in our play because we want to detail everything.

what mbaki is pushing for us to do is use our abilities super fucking suboptimally under the logic that we're going to steamroll the game then we're going to be absolutely fucked in late game
it is actually playing against wincon to use vengeful outside of lylo. instead of being an arguable tiny advantage in terms of all the safe -2 player no nightkill abilities that maybe adds like 1-2% town equity at best in late game it increases towns chances of winning by 20% or 33% in 3-5 way lylos. that's something no player of mbaki's caliber would be stupid enough to pass up under the rationale that "oh we're going to stomp this game early so we won't need lylo" and something that no player of his caliber would advocate me as scum for suggesting given I could easily be that scum in that lylo situation.

could you at least try to retype some of your posts?

because how you and

mbaki

are communicating with each other and everyone else will create an apathy pit that leads to conflict.

i cant process the full extent of your argument if youre going to curse and use the logic that someone's approach is stupid, town makes judgment errors especially under disproportional force like this 1v1.

its as bad as

mbaki

distancing himself from enjoying the game with the entire playerlist since gamestart.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why are we now strategizing in the event of mylo?

Yes, it's good to have a long-term plan, but realistically its unlikely we'll get to this point.

People should adapt to lower-utility powers now if it helps us in a worse position later, but we shouldn't sacrifice strong confidence in our play because we want to detail everything.

what mbaki is pushing for us to do is use our abilities super fucking suboptimally under the logic that we're going to steamroll the game then we're going to be absolutely fucked in late game
it is actually playing against wincon to use vengeful outside of lylo. instead of being an arguable tiny advantage in terms of all the safe -2 player no nightkill abilities that maybe adds like 1-2% town equity at best in late game it increases towns chances of winning by 20% or 33% in 3-5 way lylos. that's something no player of mbaki's caliber would be stupid enough to pass up under the rationale that "oh we're going to stomp this game early so we won't need lylo" and something that no player of his caliber would advocate me as scum for suggesting given I could easily be that scum in that lylo situation.

could you at least try to retype some of your posts?

because how you and

mbaki

are communicating with each other and everyone else will create an apathy pit that leads to conflict.

i cant process the full extent of your argument if youre going to curse and use the logic that someone's approach is stupid, town makes judgment errors especially under disproportional force like this 1v1.

its as bad as

mbaki

distancing himself from enjoying the game with the entire playerlist since gamestart.

we're playing the game in the way that gives us the highest chance of winning the game by endgame, non-negotiably. i'm not going to play the game badly because people are cocky.
are we probably going to roflstomp this game? yes. but that doesn't mean making horrendously suboptimal decisions.

[Titus]

@Taly

If we veto the lurkers and wagoned slots from yesterday, we figure out a lot about what happened day 1. That also puts us in a great spot for narrowing coalitions as scum must kill scummy people and lhf.
In dance, scum can obscure them entirely. It also leaves little data for later.

[RadiantCowbells]

veto is far more useful immediately after coalition(s), so, no.

we either dance here into coalitions or we head straight into coalitions.

[Taly]

also, if you repeat

"this is scum / this person is scumclaiming"

10 times and nobody auto-jumps the first 3, i dont think people are following your idea enough to entertain hearing the next 7 times.

and this is the same concept i want

mbaki

to hear, because theyre letting their views of this playerlist overwrite their approach of gamesolving.

p-edit

yes, you can definitely argue

mbaki

is suboptimal, and you could be right that hes scum because of it

you can solve this game by yourself but you cant win it by yourself, you need to let in other people to process the game for themselves and then allow them to see your views without harping on trying to get a response the second you want to hardpush a scumread even when we cant lynch it.

[OkaPoka]

i think veto being useful after coalition is going to basically rely on our ability to come to terms in a failed post-coalition world

i doubt thats going to happen

[chennisden]

can any of the townies who have any mathematical ability back me up that mbaki is scumclaiming by advocating for blowing vengeful early?

yes

i have a strong background in math and i tryharded

if you think blowing vengeful right now is ever mechanically a good idea you can go away

[RadiantCowbells]

i think there's a lot of value to dance that isn't immediately obvious

yes, you can definitely argue mbaki is suboptimal, and you could be right that hes scum because of it

you can solve this game by yourself but you cant win it by yourself, you need to let in other people to process the game for themselves and then allow them to see your views without harping on trying to get a response the second you want to hardpush a scumread even when we cant lynch it

i've won more games by myself than you've played on MS.

[Titus]

i think there's a lot of value to dance that isn't immediately obvious

yes, you can definitely argue mbaki is suboptimal, and you could be right that hes scum because of it

you can solve this game by yourself but you cant win it by yourself, you need to let in other people to process the game for themselves and then allow them to see your views without harping on trying to get a response the second you want to hardpush a scumread even when we cant lynch it

i've won more games by myself than you've played on MS.

Ok, I think RC is town, and I want to vig him. I'm annoyed.

[chennisden]

lol

[RadiantCowbells]

you're annoyed because you refuse to treat me with any respect and then get mad at you when I return the favor.

[Titus]

VOTE: veto

[OkaPoka]

rc

to get a majority to agree to a coalition is going to take a lot of arm twisting

if it fails you do realize if it fails, then getting a supported veto thats good is going to be a herculean task that would probably have to come from a replacement right?

[Titus]

you're annoyed because you refuse to treat me with any respect and then get mad at you when I return the favor.

Hi to you too...I'm like the only one who engaged you're read so this 'tude is not helping your mbaki lynch quest.

[Taly]

i think there's a lot of value to dance that isn't immediately obvious

yes, you can definitely argue mbaki is suboptimal, and you could be right that hes scum because of it

you can solve this game by yourself but you cant win it by yourself, you need to let in other people to process the game for themselves and then allow them to see your views without harping on trying to get a response the second you want to hardpush a scumread even when we cant lynch it

i've won more games by myself than you've played on MS.

its not fun for me to play this game alone.

and i dont vibe with you asserting your experience over mine as a means to dignify yourself.

[OkaPoka]

actually wait this is solvable

we just coalition twice and if it fails we reveal rc and then he can veto pick

[RadiantCowbells]

coalition has already been decided on

first coalition you guys can do as a group i will have 0 say in it and won't be included in it.
second coalition I do by myself.

Hi to you too...I'm like the only one who engaged you're read so this 'tude is not helping your mbaki lynch quest.

i'm not even trying to lynch mbaki right now. i expect to win this game with coalition without having to actually deal with him.
but i'm not letting him fuck up the ability usage before he goes down.

[OkaPoka]

maybe we can dance -> veto

[Titus]

Yeah, you see I want data to actually have an informed opinion before doing a coalition. Also, practically all the people I would veto are absolutely not engaging in this discussion soooo

[Titus]

maybe we can dance -> veto

Dance is just not a good idea.

[RadiantCowbells]

if you're not following my lead on abilities you have no right to ask to reveal me.

[OkaPoka]

Dance would potentially remove two slots, making our coalition easier by one person, and if we really hate all pairs we just dont lynch