Mini Normal 2021: Game Over
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- Nero Cain
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Nero Cain Survivor
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I never said I did?Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit- Tchill13
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Tchill13 Survivor
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That's fine. I'd expect nothing less from someone that made it clear bad play from town is balanced out by adding town PR's. Then expecting town PRs to under perform while expecting scum to meet or exceed expectations so you can justify the setup.In post 2624, mastina wrote:For the record tho.
General feeling for me is that Gustavo, Nero, Tchill, Garmr, and so on, is mostly pots calling kettles black, in that all of you have displayed some issues. Not the same issues, but similar ones. In short, I'd recommend against thinking any of you hold a moral high ground.
This is the first and only game I've ever taken action that was personally motivated. When my play is effected by stuff that's not in the game I take a step back, like I'm doing now, but I don't expect you or any high power at this site to agree with me. This site doesn't hold anyone accountable for their actions, whether it be mods or players. I place that responsibility solely on the people who run this site,people like you mastina. Town will never get better if things do not change. Yall can sit around the camp fire and act like some people are just so good at scum they change the win percentage site wide, I read that as a description of a player here alisae I think, or you can actually hold players accountable for bad play: lurking,tunneling, fake guilties. Instead yall want to town clear them because of their meta. Then you have the fact that some people don't care to play if they draw VT. They'll just use that game to play so bad that they'll be able to play scum easier here.
It's sad that no action is being done. That no accountability is being given to fix play here. This is a good site with good people and it works wonderfully. This is what lead to my "bad play" day 2. So thx for giving me a reason to put that done mastina.
I don't think I'm better than anyone. I don't think ik everything. I don't think the mods purposely run this site in a difficult manner. I just don't agree with how it's ran. Respectfully of course.-
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Krazy Jack of All Trades
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As bad as town play was, the worst's slip was pretty bad.
The nature of mafia is that scum are punished significantly more for mistakes than town because they have fewer people. That's the nature of asymmetric games.
While I still think this setup is definitely townsided, I guess I can see why it wouldn't be "broken bad". I still stick by my "???" assessment of it tho. It doesn't feel like something that belongs in NY to me. This setup feels closer to something that should be in Mayfair.vote conspiracy- Nero Cain
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Nero Cain Survivor
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but fake tunneling a slot that you were town reading isn't going to change anything. I don't think tunneling is bad except when its wrong but a player doesn't know when he or she is wrong unless there's a clear or a flip. If anything, I think its up to the person being tunneled OR a indepdent 3rd party to just sit down and calmly explain why they are wrong and try to change their mind and see the error in their ways. This is rarely done, however.
Lurkers should be shot or policied ASAP. We agree there.
Most players like to play scum the most anyways and I think the culture here is pro-scum in general.Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit- Tchill13
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Tchill13 Survivor
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- Tchill13
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Tchill13 Survivor
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I think when people asked for my read of oath I said she was town. I just "tunneled" to act like it lol. I never 100 percent pushed her lynch I just acted like I did.In post 2628, Nero Cain wrote:but fake tunneling a slot that you were town reading isn't going to change anything. I don't think tunneling is bad except when its wrong but a player doesn't know when he or she is wrong unless there's a clear or a flip. If anything, I think its up to the person being tunneled OR a indepdent 3rd party to just sit down and calmly explain why they are wrong and try to change their mind and see the error in their ways. This is rarely done, however.
Lurkers should be shot or policied ASAP. We agree there.
Most players like to play scum the most anyways and I think the culture here is pro-scum in general.- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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11:2 as an open, mountainous, has been considered site standard for balance of mountainous since before I joined. The math behind it is THAT old, but still holds.In post 2627, Krazy wrote:While I still think this setup is definitely townsided, I guess I can see why it wouldn't be "broken bad". I still stick by my "???" assessment of it tho. It doesn't feel like something that belongs in NY to me. This setup feels closer to something that should be in Mayfair.
The very same setup as a closed inherently tips balance towards scum. Town was thus given masons. This does indeed slightly townside it again, but with a scum rolecop able to mason hunt in addition to the night kill (and, mind you, I believe that it's a multitasking role cop, thus, could both kill and action), plus day talk which is traditionally valued as being (with smart play) almost equal to another scum member, it's not by a wide margin.
I'd estimate this setup as 55-45 town:scum. The cutoff for balance is, explicitly by Normal rules, 60%, so this setup is within the margin of balance.
As for two scum, I can cite the standards from when Minis were capped at 12 players: back in those days, it was INCREDIBLY common to see 10:2 games, because 9:3 was provably scumsided by the math alone. (Quick crash course: it starts on evens and towns have one less mislynch to spare.)
The final reason to allow the game:
Espeonage REALLY wanted 2 scum, in a game of a larger size. As the game reviewer, my job is to preserve the moderator's vision as much as possible, while within the boundaries of both balance and Normalcy. The setup passed both, so was approved.
Also, Tchill, will respond to your wall when home from work.- RadiantCowbells
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RadiantCowbells Smooth Criminal
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- Garmr
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Garmr Survivor
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Only one of us is saying they played the game perfect lol.In post 2624, mastina wrote:For the record tho.
General feeling for me is thatGustavo,Nero, Tchill, Garmr, and so on, is mostly pots calling kettles black, in that all of you have displayed some issues. Not the same issues, but similar ones. In short, I'd recommend against thinking any of you hold a moral high ground.- RadiantCowbells
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RadiantCowbells Smooth Criminal
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- the worst
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the worst Snuggly Duckling
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^^^^me
- Gustavo
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Gustavo Mafia Scum
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Never claimed to be perfect but I was a sum reading scum day 1 and then 2 townies got in my way. 2 townie who decided they wanted to play like scum.
That’s better than lucking your way onto 2 scum wagons like you did. You didn’t catch mumble or the worst. The worst was lynched cause he poe’d himself into a corner.
Garmr go play some newbie games if you are serious about continuing mafia. Good players shouldn’t give scum fake claims. They shouldn’t try to lynch obv town players either.- Garmr
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Garmr Survivor
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In post 2637, Gustavo wrote:Never claimed to be perfectbut I was a sum reading scum day 1 and then 2 townies got in my way. 2 townie who decided they wanted to play like scum.
That’s better than lucking your way onto 2 scum wagons like you did. You didn’t catch mumble or the worst. The worst was lynched cause he poe’d himself into a corner.
Garmr go play some newbie games if you are serious about continuing mafia. Good players shouldn’t give scum fake claims. They shouldn’t try to lynch obv town players either.
You proved yourself wrong there.In post 2606, Gustavo wrote:This was an example overall of how not to play mafia. Nobody played well except me.
1.You say you were scum reading scum day 1 but the reason you pushed them was being a liability as town and you didn't focus on them again.
2. I figured out mumble was scum through process of elimination. Never gave a town read to the slot. The worst is my only fuck up this game and he can tell you he had the hider fake claim set up before I came in all I did was bite the bait. Lucky I realised at the end of the day he was scum due to his misplay.
3. Which was the obvious town player I tried to lynch because it sure wasn't mememan. Also if it wasn't for the worst fake claim I would never of thought nero as scum which is why I pushed him last. Besides the game wouldn't of ended if we did lynch mememan and I would of figured it out anyway that the worst was lying.
I don't think you have the ability to talk. Especially when I was one of the biggest threats against scum in our last game that I was killed over confirmed masons.Garmr go play some newbie games if you are serious about continuing mafia. Good players shouldn’t give scum fake claims. They shouldn’t try to lynch obv town players either.Tell me who need to go to the newbie threads if they are serious about mafia.When you're not death tunnelling masons you are outing yourself and your mason buddy.
this isn't due to this game alone we are clashing.Before mastina comments again- Garmr
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Garmr Survivor
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Proved yourself a liar here.In post 1939, Gustavo wrote:I’m sorry for my play. I’m definitely adjusting myself going forward. Going to take a more laid back approach and put my faith into others more.
Guess when you are the only screw up in a game you are more passive and not quick to push the blame onto others.- Garmr
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Garmr Survivor
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- Gustavo
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Gustavo Mafia Scum
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Garmr doesn’t know the definition of perfect? lol. Playing well =/= playing perfect. I never said I played perfect.
I messed up by claiming early but in reality that didn’t hurt town more than the play of tchill/you/Nero/yuri/etc.
Meme gets credit, he played quite well also.
I’m done here. Garmr is too stubborn to realize he is terrible at this game. I feel sorry for anyone who has to play with him.- Garmr
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Garmr Survivor
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The irony is strong with this one.In post 2641, Gustavo wrote:Garmr doesn’t know the definition of perfect? lol. Playing well =/= playing perfect. I never said I played perfect.
I messed up by claiming early but in reality that didn’t hurt town more than the play of tchill/you/Nero/yuri/etc.
Meme gets credit, he played quite well also.
I’m done here.I feel sorry for anyone who has to play with him.Garmr is too stubborn to realize he is terrible at this game.- Garmr
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Garmr Survivor
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- Tchill13
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Tchill13 Survivor
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Krazy
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- Garmr
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Garmr Survivor
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You are right. Probs should just ignore him.In post 2644, Tchill13 wrote:I'm honestly just waiting to have a discussion with mastina.
Garmr I wouldn't take anything gus has to say to heart. He can come off as arrogant but I honestly think it comes from a good place. Just roll with the punches. Your play wouldn't have mattered in the end in this dumpster fire.- T-Bone
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T-Bone He/HimA Cut Above
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This is probably a good place to stop the bickering. The game is over.I have a Twitch!
I have a Youtube!
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