In post 2620, Ankamius wrote:Are you certain the vedith lynch wasn't pushed through by scum because it would solidify the rest of their positions? I'll have to look into how those wagons shifted around to have a better theory about it but I'm not sure how that wagon goes through without scum support based on the wagon sizes and speed?
Absolutely positive. It is a mixture of many factors. To quoteth mhsmith properly now:
mhsmith0 wrote:Generically you MIGHT suspect the off-wagon or non-voters more than the on wagon voters, but the only real question you need to ask was "was this lynch wagon villagery". Because if it felt villagery and righteous, you lynch off wagon, and if it was bullshit, you lynch on wagon.
The wagon on Vedith was not bullshit.
The players on there all joined, by and large, organically and naturally. The process behind the evolution there makes total sense.
Take a look at the final names there:
Chito and Yuuri had been pushing Vedith pretty much all day long--if that was a bus, it was something they committed to, but if you give them an iso, nothing looks like they were doing it for the towncred. Everything looks like they were, genuinely, trying to gamesolve.
I had some fairly compelling reasons for voting Vedith and my vote was anything but bs.
Joan's vote was a naked one, timed such that it could be a bus, but it didn't look like one; it looked fairly natural, and she was mildly spewed town from the circumstances there.
Drixx counterclaimed Vedith.
Gamma Emerald was a counterwagon to Vedith and Vedith's posts weakly spew her as being town; if you iso Vedith searching for Gamma, it reads like a hard-pocketing attempt nigh-identical to his treatment of Pink Ball, who was immensely townspewed from the Vedith flip. I'd have to recheck the circumstances behind her vote, but it didn't feel like scum blindly bussing.
Torque was one of the main players to point out why Vedith's claimed flavor was impossible, contributing one of THE major three damning points leading to Vedith's lynch. He pretty strongly showed himself town when he did that, because his read evolution there was entirely organic and natural; the points he brought up were points that a scumbuddy bussing Vedith simply wouldn't have thought of.
Near x Mello, it has been pointed out, left the wagon on Vedith earlier only to rejoin it later when Vedith was condemned--people have said that pattern was suspicious, but my thoughts are actually the opposite. If Near x Mello wanted towncred for bussing Vedith, then they would have never left the Vedith wagon in the first place.
I can point to
these votecounts among others to demonstrate that.
To a
lesser
extent, that same logic applies to Spike and Jet--they left the wagon after Vedith's roleclaim, but rejoined it after Vedith was condemned via flavor + counterclaim. If they wanted the towncred from the flip, they likely wouldn't have left in the first place. Admittedly, this is much weaker than with Near x Mello due to the psychological differences in the two hydras.
Wisdom and Kokichi Oma show conviction; they wouldn't back down from a bus if they were committed to it. Whereas Creature and Xtoxm, I fully admit, could, although I still think, wouldn't--ultimately doesn't matter much because Spike and Jet are obvtown on their own merits, for the previously described reasons.
Which leaves you with Almost50--who while not having voted Vedith,
DID vote for Vedith's predecessor, SSBF. He unvoted soon after Vedith replaced in, but the fact remains he voted SSBF in a way I attributed as being quite town...making his revote on Vedith rather logical; he was returning to a prior suspicion he had dropped earlier.
Where is the scum in there?
Each and every single one of those reads, with the possible exception of Gamma Emerald, I can see evolving in a fluent, organic, natural way. I don't see scum bussing there; I see town recognizing scum and lynching them.