Mini 1820 — Lazy Summer Mafia (Game Over)

[Raskolnikov]

I mean sure, I guess it did look very reaction testy, and it was. But still I believed most of what I said.

[Raskolnikov]

The me doubting myself thing is 100% true btw and so is me being paranoid a ton and not knowing how to tr people d you have any advice?

I don't think you'd want my advice unless you want to lose 3p lylos

[Vedith]

I don't understand how you didn't react to that big exchange at all though vedith. I was really anxious to see how you'd respond and when it was completely flat I just. Ugh. Whatever.

You mean from tonight?
At first I was thinking great we can work with this Rask might actually pull through... then I read some more and realised it was never going to happen and you were eating out of Maria's hands.
I was then trying to think is it less scummy to explain why I'm town or why Maria is scum.
I was going to go with why Maria is scum as normally when I'm scum I'm explaining why I'm town...
But as it was quite late I thought I'll do something in the morning.

[Marquis]

VC post

[Marquis]

lynch post

vedith was a town n2 watcher

[Marquis]

a win condition has been achieved

mafia win!

reserved for links

[Marquis]

reserved for commentary

edits will come in the morning as i'm a bit out of it right now

go on and post

[Transcend]

holy shit..................................

maria sucks as mafia on our home website, why is she so good here

[MariaR]

*shrug*

[kraska77]

Vedith =(

[kraska77]

Kinda wish I didn't see who I replaced but oh well.

Can you explain why you said that please?

I dislike that post by maria ^_^

Oh yeah found it...That post by Maria was fucking horrible and I could never see her as town after that
She did pretty well in the last couple of days and lylo tho

[LicketyQuickety]

Feel free to critique my game I player here to those who played in this game or simply observed.

[MariaR]

Kinda wish I didn't see who I replaced but oh well.

Can you explain why you said that please?

I dislike that post by maria ^_^

Oh yeah found it...That post by Maria was fucking horrible and I could never see her as town after that
She did pretty well in the last couple of days and lylo tho

I've said those exact words as town though! :c

[Slandaar]

This setup was insanely scum sided ruined game really.

[Infinity 324]

I hated the setup too

Was maria a tracker?

[Infinity 324]

Blatantly violating people's expectations of what should exist in a setup isn't really very fair to town imo.

[Raskolnikov]

Is blaming setup really fair? I feel like mods should make wifom setups more so people can't lynch entirely off of setup speculation like we did here.
If it were more common this would also happen less.

[callforjudgement]

Congratulations Maria!

Speaking as one of the setup reviewers: this was a pretty hard setup to balance. There are two main issues: a) town need a huge amount of power so that they can get all the information they'd normally get from their power roles in one night of actions, and b) scum need enough red herrings to not get caught out by setup speculation. As such, it's inevitable that scum would have some power roles that aren't particularly useful for them and serve only to help them make more realistic fakeclaims. (DGB's role in particular was intended to give scum clues as to what would be safely fakeclaimable, but she ended up dying before she could use it.) Actually, we probably mildly screwed up with Maria's role; Tracker would have been so weak for town in this setup (almost negative utility) that in retrospect it should have been read as obviously scum.

I probably should have thought more about the double Doctors during review. It was pretty much inevitable in a setup like this; Doctor's not a role that has a high chance of hitting under normal circumstances, and there's more than one player who might reasonably need protecting overnight (several players had confirmable roles that could have been claimed). As such, the duplicate Doctors weren't much of a red flag for me, although I should probably have allowed for the possibility that there'd be no setup speculation experts in the town who could figure that out.

Also, I'm surprised that the setup can be considered scumsided when two of town's strongest power roles died D1 and N1 (Killthestory had a Friendly Neighbour shot, there's no way you should be lynching that D1), and yet town ended up having three tries to find the last scum. I was very worried I'd accidentally made it too townsided while watching the game, but Maria did well to make her way through to the end.

[Infinity 324]

Is blaming setup really fair? I feel like mods should make wifom setups more so people can't lynch entirely off of setup speculation like we did here.
If it were more common this would also happen less.

True, maybe I'm just salty. I agree that in a different (read: better) site meta this type of thing would be very much acceptable, I just don't think it's entirely fair with the current site meta.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah congrats maria, you played really well.

Why would tracker be any weaker for town? As always, it can catch scum making a kill; in this setup, it can help confirm other town roles.

[callforjudgement]

You can expect a large number of roles to target obvious townies. It's more likely to hit a Doctor protecting an obvious townie or a Watcher trying to figure out who's trying to kill them than it is to hit a Mafia member making the kill.

[Vedith]

@COJ - Yeah I think this is highly town sided too.
An IC reveal day 2 can probably break the game with a mass claim and organising who to check.
This setup a no lynch day 1 doesn't seem terrible either.
I assume you mean scum having tracker is weak for scum to town? If so I agree, I think that a Roleblocker would work better and the IC removed for another VT (I'm biased to the IC role lol)
The idea of this setup is pretty good though.

Thanks for modding Marquis.

[Slandaar]

I probably should have thought more about the double Doctors during review. It was pretty much inevitable in a setup like this; Doctor's not a role that has a high chance of hitting under normal circumstances, and there's more than one player who might reasonably need protecting overnight (several players had confirmable roles that could have been claimed). As such, the duplicate Doctors weren't much of a red flag for me, although I should probably have allowed for the possibility that there'd be no setup speculation experts in the town who could figure that out.

So you don't think if a Doc claims D1/D2 the other cc and we lynch through both every time? Like what?

Also, I'm surprised that the setup can be considered scumsided when two of town's strongest power roles died D1 and N1 (Killthestory had a Friendly Neighbour shot, there's no way you should be lynching that D1), and yet town ended up having three tries to find the last scum. I was very worried I'd accidentally made it too townsided while watching the game, but Maria did well to make her way through to the end.

Results oriented. This is an argument? From a Reviewer?

Setup expert indeed.

[Vedith]

So you don't think if a Doc claims D1/D2 the other cc and we lynch through both every time? Like what?

Probably have to learn to be a bit more open minded I guess.
How many games have you honestly got to at that stage and the answer of who's scum is really that easy?
I'd say about 30% for me.

[Infinity 324]

You can expect a large number of roles to target obvious townies. It's more likely to hit a Doctor protecting an obvious townie or a Watcher trying to figure out who's trying to kill them than it is to hit a Mafia member making the kill.

That depends on whether the person turns up dead. If they are, then scum could claim watcher but you may end up with a cc and the scum will still look more suspicious. If the player is still alive, then again you could end up with a cc and you can use the info about whether there was a NK and whether a doctor targeted that player to assess the claim.

Tracker could also theoretically catch a scum lying or corner scum with their claim.

It's true tracker doesn't really change anything if scum target exactly who they say they did, but I'm sure there are still cases where that's not worth it.

Anyway I think the fact that we are having this discussion means that town can't be blamed for not lynching maria for a tracker claim.