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In post 27399, RayFrost wrote:Mf gets poked out by lulu / cait, taric has no way to initiate because lulu can disengage with w, and so he's only left with healing out the poke. When he's oom, lulu's w is not an initiation tool and mf gets dicked.

Would someone like Thresh or Leona (for example) be better at this? I kind of imagine they would be.

Better at what? Handling cait / lulu?

To an extent, thresh would. Lulu explicitly counters leona due to poke, but thresh can poke back a bit and has a reliable ranged initiation that doesn't require an all in afterward.

Why isnt zac played top in the current tank meta?

his sustain isn't as good

I'm of the opinion that Leona/Thresh/Zyra are the best supports right now.

Annie? karma?

In post 27403, TheIrishPope wrote:his sustain isn't as good

Zac's sustain is amazing, what are you on about?

Zac's issues are the fact that he doesn't have good wave clear or particularly strong flat dueling potential. He's just a sustained poking champion. He's got amazing teamfight presence with his kit, and his scaling into late game is good.

Since he's vulnerable to all ins / being outpushed, he's not as popular as, say, shvana. The key to beating zac is something a lot of people don't get so they end up losing, but it's basically as simple as pushing him to tower or going all in on him early if he over-commits.

Also anyone who says karma is a better support than zyra is silly. Annie vs zyra is difficult given the annie nerf.

Taric is still good.

Karma is good, I personally think Taric isn't that good, Leona is better.

In post 27406, RayFrost wrote:

In post 27403, TheIrishPope wrote:his sustain isn't as good

Zac's sustain is amazing, what are you on about?

Zac's issues are the fact that he doesn't have good wave clear or particularly strong flat dueling potential. He's just a sustained poking champion. He's got amazing teamfight presence with his kit, and his scaling into late game is good.

Since he's vulnerable to all ins / being outpushed, he's not as popular as, say, shvana. The key to beating zac is something a lot of people don't get so they end up losing, but it's basically as simple as pushing him to tower or going all in on him early if he over-commits.

Also anyone who says karma is a better support than zyra is silly. Annie vs zyra is difficult given the annie nerf.

Taric is still good.

Have you played Zac of late? His bloblets flying right into your enemy's hands makes lane Zac pretty useless early game. And the current meta is all about winning early game.

In post 27406, RayFrost wrote:Annie vs zyra is difficult given the annie nerf.

She didn't really get nerfed - just build CDR and you can tibbers all day. You have less power pre-6, yes, but it more than makes up for it once you hit 6 - you can still all-in someone and win trades. You can have a tibbers for whenever you'd want it now - with only a 3 second gap between when Tibbers runs out of time and when you can cast it. Spam abilities in team fights and you can tibbers again ASAP.

Did they make it so it is hard to get all of that delicious burst damage on Taric?

In post 27406, RayFrost wrote:

In post 27403, TheIrishPope wrote:his sustain isn't as good

Zac's sustain is amazing, what are you on about?

Zac's issues are the fact that he doesn't have good wave clear

Alright so two things
1. His sustain depends on picking up random blobs, basically forcing yourself out of position to gain back something that you lost. I wouldn't say his sustain is reliable or even that good
2. What are you on about, aren't all his abilities AoE

In post 27408, KaleiÐoscøpe wrote:Have you played Zac of late? His bloblets flying right into your enemy's hands makes lane Zac pretty useless early game. And the current meta is all about winning early game.

Unless they changed him since mid/late season 3, I had no real issues playing zac.

Maybe I'm just playing better than my opponents to make up for it, but I don't really have issues re: blobs.

P-edit: his aoe burns health (passive CAN make up for this, but burning all his abilities to clear still isn't as fast as destroying an entire wave like shyv's w which is free: his aoe is over time) and isn't nearly as fast as shyv's pushing potential / the potential of every ad ever cuz fucking hydra is ridiculously good

Zac is good if you don't mind farming under turret for 15 minutes
Taric is a good babysitting support; you can't go aggro in most lanes but he's well equipped to punish aggression if you play right. His burst w/ passive hurts pretty bad.

Karma is godlike right now, Annie's just better in most comps due to ease of use. Karma's REALLY good if you don't have ranged engage since you can essentially double-talisman and it's fucking retarded. Her poke in lane is outstanding, has shields and shouldn't have the oom problem other poke supports have. Plus her tether can turn fights bottom really hard.
Karma top doesn't do enough to warrant having a Karma top imo. (I love Karma. This isn't a rag on Karma. This is just a fact.)

On another note, I hate when people say "don't focus the tank" how about, don't engage on the tank and waste everything on the tank unless it's the only thing I can do it to. Tanks are champions too, and it's stupid to ask your carries to ignore them when it's safest for the frontline to fall back and peel. Rammus is fucking scary thank you very much.

Karma is amazing and that is all anyone ever needs to know about LoL

We won't see Karma in LCS for a very long time because Annie is still a champion in this game and nobody in NA is good at Karma at the professional level.

Prolly and MeyeA (I think?) both played some karma for a while before complexity exploded, but yeah, I can agree with that statement.

Urgot is randomly getting a lot of play in korea (solo queue at least) as a tanky ADC on otherwise relatively squishy teams

WHICH MAKES SENSE IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT

Tanks jump on you? Ult somebody in their backline. Now only one of your carries is fucked instead of both and you get to put your delicious Urgot body on top of dat enemy ashe.

How's rammus currently?

The nerf to his taunt hurts.

In post 27417, MrZepher wrote:Urgot is randomly getting a lot of play in korea (solo queue at least) as a tanky ADC on otherwise relatively squishy teams

WHICH MAKES SENSE IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT

Tanks jump on you? Ult somebody in their backline. Now only one of your carries is fucked instead of both and you get to put your delicious Urgot body on top of dat enemy ashe.

well, dlift played urgot in the all-stars, he did pretty good, I'd like to see him play urgot in the LCS

on that note, Uzi might be coming to LMQ, so we MIGHT see Uzi vs. Dlift

EG played Urgot in LCS.

It was weird watching Urgot lose lane b/c Riot buffed the fuck out of Sivir and made Jinx, Lucian, and Draven things

WELL yellowpete isn't an aggressive ADC and is def outclassed by a lot of other ad's currently currently in NA LCS. Plus his Urgot was never incredibly great.

Urgot got the nerf bat shortly after allstars didn't he? Or was it just before allstars? Also CLG wouldn't let him play Urgot since it doesn't fit with the whole sieging meta that NA has going on.

In post 27422, MrZepher wrote:WELL yellowpete isn't an aggressive ADC and is def outclassed by a lot of other ad's currently currently in NA LCS. Plus his Urgot was never incredibly great.

Urgot got the nerf bat shortly after allstars didn't he? Or was it just before allstars? Also CLG wouldn't let him play Urgot since it doesn't fit with the whole sieging meta that NA has going on.

Yellowpete sucks as adc and is definitely holding Krepo back.

Urgot got nerfed during spring split iirc.

So, I almost got a penta in ranked with Jax but I couldn't take out full tank cho in time. Fucking dirtbag chobo.

Edit: i highly recommend listening to DMX while playing jax.