Mafiascum.net

Didn't realize. Apologies.

↑ StrangerCoug wrote:

I anticipate spending very little of the time that I am awake at home on September 18. I will see if I can arrange something with the list mod as I currently have no backup.

VOTE: Ewo

↑ nhammen wrote:Although, if he just didn't want to L-1, he should have voted after others unvoted. What happened with this scumread of yours wii?

His later post have lead me to believe that he is town, so I decided to leave that one be. I strike up his post 70 up to just a moment of anger.

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:
So you're only happy to do it as a deadline lynch?

Were you in a hurry for night to begin? I prefer not to rush a lynch.

nh wrote:Do you think she will answer honestly if she is scum?

Perhaps not, but we might be able to gather something from her answer. Upfront questions make scum squirm.

johnny wrote:How does him becoming one of my townreads help us in this theoretical situation?

Because you initially expressed suspicion of him, he was one of your scumreads. How is it not beneficial for scum to do a bit of distancing and then try to prove a partner town?

cheery wrote:Wii was the next scummiest after I decided that my case on ewo didn't have enough reasons for existence.

This is how a town player explains their abandonment of a wagon. It's the opposite of how City did it, when she (sorry about the gender mixups) explained hers, which was that she "ran out of attack angles". It's a minor difference in syntax but sometimes that's how scum are caught, through little slips. Dog is saying the case wasn't fruitful so he gave it up, while city said she ran out of ways to make someone look like scum.

@Herr - in post 267 you say Wii's your second choice for a wagon but you don't give very specific reasons for thinking he's scum. It's a pretty vague statement. It looks a bit like you're setting yourself up to ride either wagon without being questioned about why you switched.

@nh - you've been quiet on city. What are your thoughts?

@wii - you have posted no reaction or thoughts on anything I've done / said since my post 200. You said you were going to hammer "unless anything changes". What has or has not happened in the most recent third of the game that would motivate you to move your vote to me without providing reasons?

↑ nhammen wrote:Although I can see this point of view regarding ewo, and have been thinking about moving my vote off of him, I'm not sure wii is the best alternative. Some of wii's actions seem to be coming from newbtown. Newbtown can always be faked, but I don't think that is what is happening. Whenever I have considered moving my vote off of ewo, I couldn't find someone else that I would prefer to have my vote on. Cheery's catch on Jason (and Jason's reaction to it) seems like a good starting point, but he's had some other behavior that I am seeing as a town-tell. And this case on City seems like a good place to look as well, but I'm just not as confident in it as I am with my vote on ewo. The good thing at this point of the game is that I have more than half of the playerlist as townreads.

I think City would be my second choice, but it's much more of a gut feeling and I don't think I could articulate it nearly as well. There's definitely something off about him, but I can't put my finger on it as clearly and it's not compelling enough for a vote. I might have kept my vote on Ewo if it were just between him and City. It would certainly be close. I'm feeling more town learning on Jason, but mainly for absence of anything that sets off my radar.

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:That reminds me, Pasch, Did you ever address all the crap City said about you in his entry post? From what I've seen you haven't even acknowledged his presence.

It was just a blow by blow of my argument with MM. Seems to me that issue is over. Unless someone seriously wants to pursue me and suggest that it was all a gambit, there's not much more to say. It would have been a crazy risky and clumsy gambit if it were... But mainly I've ignored City because he's primarily just rehashing stuff we already dealt with. When there's something new to talk about, I'll weigh in. And this is why I weighed in on Ewo at this point. I didn't like the way it felt like vultures circling in. I was wavering, and it felt like a mislynch in the making. And it was mainly Wiibox who was doing the vulturing, and that felt scummy to me.

. Otherwise I agree a lot with what you guys have to say about wiibox and he's preference number 2 for the lynch in my book. Dancing around the hammer like that is hugely suspicious, and I can see the scum motivation behind especially coming from a newer player, feeling that hammering will draw too much attention to himself.

@ewo Is this too vague? I don't think it is but I can go more in depth.

One more thing on Mr. Wiibox

Wiibox3 wrote:VOTE: Ewo

↑ nhammen wrote:Although, if he just didn't want to L-1, he should have voted after others unvoted. What happened with this scumread of yours wii?

His later post have lead me to believe that he is town, so I decided to leave that one be. I strike up his post 70 up to just a moment of anger.

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:
So you're only happy to do it as a deadline lynch?

Were you in a hurry for night to begin? I prefer not to rush a lynch.

Can you explain your vote? Or are you just trying to divert attention from the wagon on City?

@HerrRudi - It looked like City slipped to me as well, but it didn't look like a scum slip to me, but it might have been. Also what are your reads on the other players?

This is your quote Wiibox. This is one of the biggest flake posts I've ever seen.

I am willing to bet with that comment combined with my scum read on City that Wiibox and CityElectric are scumbuddies. We should lynch one of them today and if that target flips scum we have an obvious D2 lynch target. If I'm wrong I'll reanalyze, but this is the optimal course of action.

@Wiibox What do you think of the case on CityElectric? I need a straight, clear answer

↑ Wiibox3 wrote:VOTE: Ewo

↑ nhammen wrote:Although, if he just didn't want to L-1, he should have voted after others unvoted. What happened with this scumread of yours wii?

His later post have lead me to believe that he is town, so I decided to leave that one be. I strike up his post 70 up to just a moment of anger.

It's enough to vote now?

↑ Wiibox3 wrote:

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:
So you're only happy to do it as a deadline lynch?

Were you in a hurry for night to begin? I prefer not to rush a lynch.

I was just trying to gauge how big your scumread is on him, because you looked to be searching for an alternative and don't actually have faith in ewo being scum.

@City Why are you not attacking me for not having attacked nhammen , which is practically the same reason as you're attacking ewo's .

@Pasch: Thanks to see that you've been reading my posts...//sarcasm. I've been making it clear twice that I'm a girl, yet you still keep referring to me as a boy. Posts with quotes like ewo's (with only the pronouns) are the reason why.

@Dog: There's a difference. You haven't posted a full list of reads yet. You haven't attacked nham, because you saw now reason to, ewo didn't mention nham in a full reads post where he mentions everyone else (except for McLucien, but I can forgive him that. Not nham.). It's a tiny difference, but the two points certainly aren't the same.

↑ CityElectric wrote:@Pasch: Thanks to see that you've been reading my posts...//sarcasm. I've been making it clear twice that I'm a girl, yet you still keep referring to me as a boy. Posts with quotes like ewo's (with only the pronouns) are the reason why.

@Dog: There's a difference. You haven't posted a full list of reads yet. You haven't attacked nham, because you

probably

saw no reason to, ewo didn't mention nham in a full reads post where he mentions everyone else (except for McLucien, but I can forgive him that. Not nham.). It's a tiny difference, but the two points certainly aren't the same.

EBWOP

I've actually just gone and checked the post in question, you needing more answers from ewo is actually pointless - seeing as you don't actually have a question to be asking.
While I realise you probably did skim the post and didn't notice the bit on nhammen (I didn't either when I checked last time and I'm assuming ewo missed himself when answering the question) while you were catching up so I can't hold that against you, though the pressing for more answers when ewo has already given what I consider to be true, and fits in with what I just found by looking at the post 69 again.

↑ ewo2 wrote:
venrob is MASSIVELY overreacting to criticisms of his very scummy posts. I dislike his proposal of wagoning an IC just for being an IC – it seems like something scum would want to do to possibly wipe a player that would be a challenge. Plus,

nhammen has been nothing but helpful thus far and has not given any indication of being scum.

Also, putting a player at L-1 this early in a newbie game is REALLY bad move. Venrob is my #2 candidate for scum.

↑ CityElectric wrote:@Pasch: Thanks to see that you've been reading my posts...//sarcasm. I've been making it clear twice that I'm a girl, yet you still keep referring to me as a boy. Posts with quotes like ewo's (with only the pronouns) are the reason why.

Sorry about that. It's the french fries. They're kinda phallic.

Wait is Ewo at L-1 again with that Wiibox vote? Are you even trying anymore?

UNVOTE: VOTE: Wiibox

I've had enough of his play. He doesn't give reasons, is barely scumhunting, and is overall not useful. Plus I see scum motivation over all his actions. We need to get over the fact that him making newbie mistakes doesn't give him a town read automatically. It's been happening way too much and he just blatantly did it again with his last post.

We'll deal with City tomorrow. This first lynch needs to happen sooner than later though.

Also for the record, the key isn't that he put Ewo at L-1 (even though that's opportunistic) it's that he puts him at L-1, then says "he'd prefer not to rush a lynch" to seem town, and gives no reason, not even a "I've made this clear earlier" type of thing. It's all fake garbage. He can't scum hunt or give good reasons because he is scum. Stop giving him a free pass for these mistakes because he is a newb because all of them are absolutely terrible for the town

Wiibox only put Ewo at L-1 after his vote was no longer a hammer. He didn't vote until the consequences of that vote were removed.

↑ Paschendale wrote:Wiibox only put Ewo at L-1 after his vote was no longer a hammer. He didn't vote until the consequences of that vote were removed.

Agreed. Or at least until he perceived those consequences are gone. He set ewo up for a bad hammer (in my opinion at least). Sure it's a noob move, but a scum noob move. Those exist too.

pasch wrote:Wiibox only put Ewo at L-1 after his vote was no longer a hammer. He didn't vote until the consequences of that vote were removed.

I feel like that's scummier than hammering. He won't look as responsible for a mislynch if he's the L-2 vote. The dude rides under the radar constantly, it's totally in line with what he's done this game that he'd try to skirt attention like that.

Honestly I think City is more likely to be scum than wii, but there are two scum in the game. I just did a couple quick iso's to look at the interaction between city and wii. It's actually very telling. Reread City and Ctrl-F wii for quotes like these (note: all quotes from cityelectric, to ensure clarity):

Wii feels the need to bring up MM's reason for RVS voting him again, by way of defense for MM. And it features Wii's third actually useful post out of nine... That makes 1/3 of his posts being fluff/useless. I'm this close to accusing him of active lurking.

Wii is going down the scum route of active lurking, but it's too soon to actually turn that into a scum read.

Wii posts something, which assures Johnny of his townieness. And, acutally, he's right. Wii's post does score him nice townie points.

Wii... I'm not sure... I'd have to ISO him to make a more definite judgement.

There are many many more examples of wishy-washyness towards wii, never a clear answer on whether he's scum or town, just waffling back and forth between "slightly scummy" and "getting townpoints". City also comes to wii's defense a handful of times, answering posts that are directed at wii (ex: 220, 223).

Wii's not looking great in his interactions with city. When questioned by city (not accused, but questioned) about active-lurking, wii says:

I didn't realize what I was doing was characterized as "active lurking". I actually had never heard that term before. Anyway, I usually don't say much when someone else has asked the same question I was thinking or made a comment that I felt the same about. But maybe I need to

change my tactic

on the front.

Bolding is mine.

Then wii says this:

It looked like City slipped to me as well, but it didn't look like a scum slip to me, but it might have been. Also what are your reads on the other players?

Acknowledges a slip, says there's a SLIGHT possibility it was a scum slip (but not likely), and then changes the topic.

Earlier in the day wii voted jambecca, but only due to "stalling". Wii also says this:

Also so far jambecca and ewo are the only people I have truly suspected as scum

This definitely sounds like a scum statement. If you know who the scum are, it's hard to find scum.

I can see City and Wii being buddies, so I'm OK with wii today if that's the general consensus. As I said, I think City is more likely to be scum, but the wii-city interactions are very buddy-like, and part of being scum is looking out for your partner (subtly), and city is betraying that quite a bit.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: wii

Wiibox that's L-1

So, if my count is correct both ewo and wii are at L-1, and Cheery Dog is the only player that does not have their vote on either of these wagons. Seeing as how he is the player that is most widely regarded as town, he is the right person for us to have handed the hammer to.


I missed this earlier.

↑ ewo2 wrote:Johnny slinks off his idea of a policy lynch after he's been called out on it. Johnny also focuses a hell of a lot on sematics with regards to nh. He even does a reread of other games in order to clear nh for the charges Johnny himself made. To be honest this looks a lot like distancing, which nh looked to be doing with nekoko way back at the start of the day.

I see checking up on my meta as a towntell. So you are saying that he had this "plan", and then checked my meta to make it work. What if my meta didn't show what his "plan" needed it to show? I don't see this logic very well, and I think you are trying your best to push suspicion on the both of us.

↑ ewo2 wrote:@nh - you've been quiet on city. What are your thoughts?

↑ nhammen wrote:Cheery's catch on Jason (and Jason's reaction to it) seems like a good starting point, but he's had some other behavior that I am seeing as a town-tell.

And this case on City seems like a good place to look as well, but I'm just not as confident in it as I am with my vote on ewo.

If you want me to expand upon this, I was unable to get a good read on City's behavior. But the case HerrRudi presented convinced me to some degree of City's scumminess. But I'm not as convinced as I am with you, even after including your recent improvements.

↑ Paschendale wrote:I think City would be my second choice, but it's much more of a gut feeling and I don't think I could articulate it nearly as well. There's definitely something off about him, but I can't put my finger on it as clearly and it's not compelling enough for a vote. I might have kept my vote on Ewo if it were just between him and City. It would certainly be close.

I agree with you on almost all of this.

↑ Paschendale wrote:I'm feeling more town learning on Jason, but mainly for absence of anything that sets off my radar.

Eh. I would feel the same, except I am reading a bit into Cheery's catch. Maybe more than Cheery himself is. The only time I have been caught as scum, it was due to something similar to this, so I counted this tell somewhat significantly. If I were to choose someone other than ewo to die today, it would be Jason, simply for this catch.


Anyways, it is time for me to get my drink on, so I will try to make another post in a few hours....

↑ CityElectric wrote:

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:That reminds me, Pasch, Did you ever address all the crap City said about you in

his

her

entry post? From what I've seen you haven't even acknowledged

his

her

presence.

There's an acronym for this which I can't come up with right now... FFYC? Please, everyone, it's underneath my name, next to every single one of my posts. I'm a girl and I prefer to be referred to as such.

Don't get too snippy over it, it tends to happen a lot (i know i do it) and even females do it at times.

↑ Wiibox3 wrote:VOTE: Ewo

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:
So you're only happy to do it as a deadline lynch?

Were you in a hurry for night to begin? I prefer not to rush a lynch.

You prefer to not rush a lynch but you put someone at L-1 with no notification

↑ nhammen wrote:

↑ Paschendale wrote:I'm feeling more town learning on Jason, but mainly for absence of anything that sets off my radar.

Eh. I would feel the same, except I am reading a bit into Cheery's catch. Maybe more than Cheery himself is. The only time I have been caught as scum, it was due to something similar to this, so I counted this tell somewhat significantly. If I were to choose someone other than ewo to die today, it would be Jason, simply for this catch.

Which catch is this, wasn't the catch something to do with my meta in a different game?
And your willing to lynch me over my town meta?

how does that even make sense?

@ Happy Mutt, did you read Jason's meta enough to see if he was this jumpy?

Johnny my completed meta is still a bit short

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:@ Happy Mutt, did you read Jason's meta enough to see if he was this jumpy?

I basically only looked at his replace in posts. Mostly because I don't actually know what to make of meta (probably because first set I tried to read was Thor's in my first newbie game)

From the now 2 options we have of the lynch: